Trayvon Martin: 'Shoot first' law under scrutiny

  • Thread starter Thread starter Robert_Bay
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Scott_Lafrance said:
What is completely lost in this story is how Zimmerman, who has a wife and kids, took time away from them to serve as a neighborhood watch when his neighborhood was undergoing a stretch of burglaries. He actually put himself into a potentially dangerous situation trying to deter crime in his neighborhood. I am sure that if you asked him, he would tell you that shooting a neighbor’s kid was the last thing on his mind that night. Now, he has to live in hidding because race-baiting hate pimps like Spike Lee have effectively put a bounty on his head and gave out (erroneous) information on how to find him. But no. All we are getting is “He stalked a black child and murdered him” when that doesn’t even line up with what is now common knowledge. And as time passes, Zimmerman’s story is holding steady while Martin’s story is getting murkier and murkier. There are stories out now about his Twitter account and potential gang and drug affiliations, how he may have been suspended for possession of drugs AND possession of stolen property, and there is a forming (but weak) link between him and the gang who is thought responsible for the break-ins that were happening in the neighborhood where Zimmerman was acting as a neighborhood watch. I don’t know if any of this is true. Yet not knowing if it’s true, you repeat it? Apparent the stuff about his Twitter account IS true and the Internet is abuzz with it. It is this Twitter feed that is creating connections between Martin and suspected gang activity and drug dealing.
Click to expand...
 
Havard said:
That is a positive development. 🙂

We shouldn’t be making definitive conclusions during an ongoing investigation.
Click to expand...
Indeed. The real irony here is that the hysteria surrounding Zimmerman is very likely to lead any trial against him into mistrial.
 
sw85 said:
Indeed. The real irony here is that the hysteria surrounding Zimmerman is very likely to lead any trial against him into mistrial.
Click to expand...
The sad this is that the story of Spike Lee twittering the wrong address of Zimmerman and potentially putting an elderly couple, who has nothing to do with this whole event in very real danger by people who’s thirst for blood outweighs their thirst for real justice, is being effectively ignored. I mean, God forbid if that couple was victimized in a drive by shooting. Would catharina be equally outraged if a neighborhood child was shot in a botched driveby against an elderly couple because of the wreckless behavior by some people around this issue?
 
catharina said:
Zimmerman’s personal set of fears led him to view a CHILD as
a menace - although the child was doing what he should be doing
and located where he should have been located; he left his father’s
supervision to go and buy some skittles for his younger brother and
an iced tea. Zimmerman’s perceptions were off the mark; he acted
on those perceptions anyway.
Click to expand...
Were they? He thought Martin looked suspicious.

Martin has a history of drug use (suspended from school because drug residue found in his backpack), a history of unprovoked attack (the bus driver) and possibly the history of theft or possession of stolen property (in his backpack).

It sounds like Zimmerman may have been right. 🤷
 
Scott_Lafrance said:
If he thought that Zimmerman was stalking him, why didn’t he call 911?
Click to expand...
That is a good question and one of the few facts that speak to him being an aggressor, the only one I know that is actually factual. Trayvon Martin did not call 911. It could be because he was taking matters into his own hand. It could also be a panicked lapse of judgment. Neighborhood watchmen do not have a monopoly on poor judgement.
 
maryjk said:
Does anyone have information showing that the girlfriend has spoken with police? Or is her statement still just from what she told the family lawyer?
Click to expand...
I have read that her phone records show we was on the phone to him at this time. Obviously, her testimony, like Zimmernman’s is subject to being weighed on the basis of personal interest.
 
pnewton said:
That is a good question and one of the few facts that speak to him being an aggressor, the only one I know that is actually factual. Trayvon Martin did not call 911. It could be because he was taking matters into his own hand. It could also be a panicked lapse of judgment. Neighborhood watchmen do not have a monopoly on poor judgement.
Click to expand...
You are right he didn’t not call 911. If he had, maybe they could have told him who was following him. and WHY. Instead, Martin called his girlfriend.

But last I knew, she hasn’t spoken to the police only to the family lawyer:shrug:
 
maryjk said:
Were they? He thought Martin looked suspicious.

Martin has a history of drug use (suspended from school because drug residue found in his backpack), a history of unprovoked attack (the bus driver) and possibly the history of theft or possession of stolen property (in his backpack).

It sounds like Zimmerman may have been right. 🤷
Click to expand...
In that place and in that time,
(his father’s neighborhood and returning from a store),
Zimmerman’s perceptions of the boy were off the mark.
Who stalks anyone, a stranger, while packing a deadly weapon?

Zimmerman did.
 
catharina said:
In that place and in that time,
(his father’s neighborhood and returning from a store),
Zimmerman’s perceptions of the boy were off the mark.
Who stalks anyone, a stranger, while packing a deadly weapon?

Zimmerman did.
Click to expand...
definitions.uslegal.com/s/stalking/
A person who intentionally and repeatedly follows or harasses another person and who makes a credible threat, either expressed or implied, with the intent to place that person in reasonable fear of death or serious bodily harm is guilty of the crime of stalking.
Click to expand...
I don’t know who would stalk someone else. (Well I do know, because I had an ex-boyfriend stalk me.)

BUT I do know that Zimmerman didn’t stalk Martin.
 
catharina said:
In that place and in that time,
(his father’s neighborhood and returning from a store),
Zimmerman’s perceptions of the boy were off the mark.
Who stalks anyone, a stranger, while packing a deadly weapon?

Zimmerman did.
Click to expand...
“Packing a deadly weapon” is a non-issue.

Florida has a concealed carry law, and Zimmerman was lawfully carrying a firearm.
 
fix said:
Again, only emphasizing one aspect of this situation, while not honestly relating all that is true here, really is a disservice.

The fact that a person is termed a “child” by some legal definition does not mean his actions were child-like or that his free will was compromised, or that he cannot take a life.

Is it fair to keep restating the person in question is a “child” while ignoring all other relevant factors?
Click to expand...
Very well said! Thank you for that.
 
sw85 said:
That has nothing to do with anything (and again, I can’t help but note you continue to equivocate between two different meanings of the word “child”). Following up on a hunch is not against the law. Assaulting someone is. Zimmerman’s side of the story is that he was confronted by Martin after stopping his pursuit of Martin and was assaulted by him without provocation. What little we know of the evidence seems to support this take (i.e., Martin’s body was uninjured save for the bullet wound where Zimmerman was severely bloodied with grass stains on his back; one eyewitness confirming that Zimmerman was screaming for help and being attacked by Martin, who was on top of him; and the failure of Zimmerman’s gun to cycle, suggesting that the slide was being gripped at the time it was fired, i.e., that this was not a gangland-style execution).

I grant this is a loose impression formed by what little we know. It will almost certainly change as more details come to light. What is clear is that continuing to harp on Martin’s “childhood” when you know this is only a legal distinction with no correspondence to objective reality clarifies nothing.
Click to expand...
She won’t stop with the child chant no matter how many reasonable explanations are given, believe me.
 
scipio337 said:
“Packing a deadly weapon” is a non-issue.

Florida has a concealed carry law, and Zimmerman was lawfully carrying a firearm.
Click to expand...
If you follow a stranger whom you view as “susopicious”
and you KNOW you’re carrying a loaded weapon
  • then why follow the stranger???
 
scipio337 said:
non-issue.

**Definite issue. If you follow a stranger whom you view
as “susopicious” and you KNOW you’re carrying a loaded
weapon - then why follow the stranger??? **

Florida has a concealed carry law, and Zimmerman was lawfully carrying a firearm.
Click to expand...
 
catharina said:
If you follow a stranger whom you view as “susopicious”
and you KNOW you’re carrying a loaded weapon
  • then why follow the stranger???
Click to expand...
Because he was part of a neighborhood watch in a neighborhood that had been experiencing a rash of break-ins. He was protecting his property and that of his neighbors.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top