Trayvon Martin: 'Shoot first' law under scrutiny

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Then it all comes down to whether ab 17-year old is going to SUPPOSEDLY attack a Neighborhood Watch guy for no reason-----what was it GZ’s father says-----------he says GZ told him TM said “this is going to be your last day?” …
That is something I’ve wondered a lot about too. The kid was on his way home, was pretty close to being there. I wonder if it began with huge mutual mistrust and suspicion that went horribly wrong with a firearm involved, that something, a misunderstanding, a miscommunication, a look, a tone, just seeing the gun, who knows, and then things just escalated without either realizing until it was too late how bad. It is just awful to think about.
 
Where are images or did I miss a link?

"Trayvon Martin: ABC enhances George Zimmerman video

ABC News has re-digitized video of George Zimmerman taken shortly after Trayvon Martin’s shooting.

The video was unveiled as an exclusive this morning on “Good Morning America.” ABC was the first news organization to show the original tape.

Reporter Matt Gutman said the clearer video shows “what appear to be a pair of gashes or welts on George Zimmerman’s head.”…

Blue excerpt from: articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-04-02/news/os-trayvon-martin-enhanced-video-040212_1_reporter-matt-gutman-abc-news-neighborhood-watch-volunteer-zimmerman
Here we go. Here’s a link to the enhanced video.

George Zimmerman: Enhanced Video Shows Injury
New version of surveillance video may support neighborhood-watch shooter’s story
abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/george-zimmerman-enhanced-video-shows-injury-trayvon-martin-16053206
 
Ya, thanks. I had to watch Obama propaganda about the ACA before watching it…😦
Sorry, I can’t do anything about that.

The choice of words used in one instance is poor. It is not a “new” version. It is an enhanced version of the same video. But, at least they seem to be looking for the truth now instead of denying reality. Before the media and others claimed there was no indication of injury at all, though I definitely saw a gash in the first version of the video. Now it is just more obvious. Zimmerman was injured. Now it is up to the investigators to determine if he believed his life was in danger when he sustained his injuries to justify use of lethal force. I don’t envy them that job.
 
hi easterjoy,

i just was checking to see if you saw the post i made for you showing that pretty much half the states in this country have stand your ground laws. oregon too.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=9127393&postcount=268
Sorry, I did not see it…there are an incredible number of posts to this thread!!

Even in Florida, there is a question about whether the Stand Your Ground standard allowsa citizen to chase somebody and then claim self-defense when there is a deadly altercation (I’m referring to the bag-of-radios case, where the facts have been presented in a court, rather than the Martin-Zimmerman case).

There has to be some duty to keep yourself out of fights, or the law is just nuts, and I don’t care what state you’re in. As far as I know, the law has not been interpreted that way in Oregon (yet!), and that interpretation may be overturned in Florida. It is my opinion now that this recent decision will not encourage the DA to hurry George Zimmerman into court. There is no statute of limitations on a murder charge, but the DA only gets one try at a conviction. They’ll want to wait until they can get it right.

If that interpretation stands in Florida, things are going to get very dangerous. People are going to get themselves killed for the sake of the “right” to not have to back down. That’s just nuts.
 
Sorry, I can’t do anything about that.

The choice of words used in one instance is poor. It is not a “new” version. It is an enhanced version of the same video. But, at least they seem to be looking for the truth now instead of denying reality. Before the media and others claimed there was no indication of injury at all, though I definitely saw a gash in the first version of the video. Now it is just more obvious.
The clearer video is obvious that he has injuries on the back of his head.
 
The clearer video is obvious that he has injuries on the back of his head.
Those arguing about the location he was at on the ground, concrete vs. grass, should understand that it could have been both.

I’d hate to get hit in the head while on grass, I’d probably fear for my life if I was getting hit on the head while my head was bouncing off of concrete.
 
Those arguing about the location he was at on the ground, concrete vs. grass, should understand that it could have been both.

I’d hate to get hit in the head while on grass, I’d probably fear for my life if I was getting hit on the head while my head was bouncing off of concrete.
Fearing for his life is not the final determinant; it could simply mean he was getting whupped by someone fearing for his life. While there is no law against following someone, if this turns out to just have been a fight between the two, which George won, I’m afraid his instigation of the whole encounter would make the fight his fault.
 
Just watched the video and appear to be two linear cuts on the back of his scalp. Would like to see what the medical reports say.
They will say something along the lines of, “treated lacerations to the back of patients head”.

What are you expecting it to say? I don’t think they will give some detailed report that will solve the puzzle. He’s got cuts to the back of his head, either he was hit from behind with something or his head hit something on the way down.
 
They will say something along the lines of, “treated lacerations to the back of patients head”.

What are you expecting it to say? I don’t think they will give some detailed report that will solve the puzzle. He’s got cuts to the back of his head, either he was hit from behind with something or his head hit something on the way down.
Oh, there is lots a medical report can say to tell us how severe the trauma might have been AND possibly even what caused it.
 
Oh, there is lots a medical report can say to tell us how severe the trauma might have been AND possibly even what caused it.
If it is a firefighter run report, it will only contain objective description of the actual wounds themselves and what was done for treatment. Firefighters and EMTs aren’t allowed to speculate on the cause of the injury, although they can document what the patient says or what bystanders say about the injury. Their purpose isn’t to validate these stories. If the patient says “Some guy was banging my head against the ground”, they have to document that. It is the police investigator’s job to verify statements.
 
Since he thought this kid was an a*****e, thought he was a criminal and he himself was packing a gun, it was unwise, even reckless, though not criminal. That is why I have no problem with him having to defend himself in a court of law and justify his actions. When people commit reckless acts and those acts result in death or injury to another, then my sympathy for them being required to defend their innocence, post bond, and be inconvenienced in life, is greatly reduced.
i agree.

i am also jealous that your super awesome animated avatar is grandfathered in! 😃 seriously, i love it. always wanted to tell you that.
 
Where are images or did I miss a link?

"Trayvon Martin: ABC enhances George Zimmerman video

ABC News has re-digitized video of George Zimmerman taken shortly after Trayvon Martin’s shooting.

The video was unveiled as an exclusive this morning on “Good Morning America.” ABC was the first news organization to show the original tape.

Reporter Matt Gutman said the clearer video shows “what appear to be a pair of gashes or welts on George Zimmerman’s head.”…

Blue excerpt from: articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-04-02/news/os-trayvon-martin-enhanced-video-040212_1_reporter-matt-gutman-abc-news-neighborhood-watch-volunteer-zimmerman
I have not seen this, but will look. This is in sharp contrast to the audio editing of Zimmerman’s call to 911 by NBC. And this is supposed to be a news organization?:mad:
 
If it is a firefighter run report, it will only contain objective description of the actual wounds themselves and what was done for treatment. Firefighters and EMTs aren’t allowed to speculate on the cause of the injury, although they can document what the patient says or what bystanders say about the injury. Their purpose isn’t to validate these stories. If the patient says “Some guy was banging my head against the ground”, they have to document that. It is the police investigator’s job to verify statements.
I watched a guy get run over on his motorcycle, the EMT documented the injuries to pass along to the flight crew. The police officer gathered detailed statements about what happened. Whether he includes a copy of the EMTs report I don’t know. But he didn’t even look at the guy that got hit.
 
I watched a guy get run over on his motorcycle, the EMT documented the injuries to pass along to the flight crew. The police officer gathered detailed statements about what happened. Whether he includes a copy of the EMTs report I don’t know. But he didn’t even look at the guy that got hit.
Right. Police to fact gathering as to cause. Medical personnel only gather information that is relevant to the injuries.
 
If it is a firefighter run report, it will only contain objective description of the actual wounds themselves and what was done for treatment. Firefighters and EMTs aren’t allowed to speculate on the cause of the injury, although they can document what the patient says or what bystanders say about the injury. Their purpose isn’t to validate these stories. If the patient says “Some guy was banging my head against the ground”, they have to document that. It is the police investigator’s job to verify statements.
You don’t have to speculate on the cause of an injury for your description to indicate whether or not the injury is consistent with the reported mode and severity of injury. He reportedly sought medical care the next day also, so that should be two descriptions by medical personnel.
 
The clearer video is obvious that he has injuries on the back of his head.
I’m glad Z’s head injury is clearly visible on this enhanced video, but I think the media’s questioning in the first place was unethical and yet another example of their efforts to create controversy. If there’s a police report saying that Z had a broken nose and head injury that was treated by the paramedics on the scene, the media should have accepted that report regardless of whether Z’s injuries were visible on the surveillance video.

What was the media trying to achieve here? Were they trying to tell us that the police and the paramedics who gave first aid to Z lied to us??? That he wasn’t really injured and the police and paramedics invented a lie to protect Zimmerman?

MSNBC allowing Martin’s parents to comment on the basis of the surveillance video, and suggest that Z was not injured, is yet a new low of media bias. First of all, a person’s injuries might need X-ray and high resolution photography rather than a grainy surveillance video in order to be accurately documented; second, even if X-rays and photos documenting Z’s injuries were available, Martin’s parents are not medical doctors or forensic experts qualified to comment on Zimmerman’s injuries.
 
Sorry, I did not see it…there are an incredible number of posts to this thread!!

Even in Florida, there is a question about whether the Stand Your Ground standard allowsa citizen to chase somebody and then claim self-defense when there is a deadly altercation (I’m referring to the bag-of-radios case, where the facts have been presented in a court, rather than the Martin-Zimmerman case).

There has to be some duty to keep yourself out of fights, or the law is just nuts, and I don’t care what state you’re in. As far as I know, the law has not been interpreted that way in Oregon (yet!), and that interpretation may be overturned in Florida. It is my opinion now that this recent decision will not encourage the DA to hurry George Zimmerman into court. There is no statute of limitations on a murder charge, but the DA only gets one try at a conviction. They’ll want to wait until they can get it right.

If that interpretation stands in Florida, things are going to get very dangerous. People are going to get themselves killed for the sake of the “right” to not have to back down. That’s just nuts.
the law appears to have been working fine close to 7 yrs now and no matter what the law, there will always be one judge that distorts the intent. i think the radio bag case will be overturned. i don’t know. i have a book on gun laws and i’m trying to understand (not easy!) but so far, i don’t see a problem with the law at all. go ahead and call me nuts, it wouldn’t be the first time. 🙂

ok, now i have to run out. when i come back there will be 80 pages added so it might take me awhile to get back to all this.

peace.
 
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