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HailStarofSea
Guest
Because he is a child?
Even Zimmerman on the call said he was a “kid.”
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Even Zimmerman on the call said he was a “kid.”
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scipio337
Guest
That’s a post hoc fallacy, if there’s ever been one.
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Dawnia
Guest
Zimmerman doesn’t have control over what other people say and does not mean that they speak for him. Do you even know that they spoke to him since the incident? With all the media hype it’s just as easy to assume that they are embellishing the details.
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seekerz
Guest
Where did I declare anyone’s guilt? I referred to the way the investigation was carried out, not to Zimmerman’s guilt or innocence. What seems to get lost in the noise is that the matter would have been closed, had there been no public outcry. I have no intention of forgetting that child’s death until and unless justice is seen to be done.
And yes, he is a child. People refer to even their college-aged kids as children, nothing to do with Trayvon’s death. It was a most mortifying habit to me as an older teen, but now I see their point of view.
People of any age can commit crime, that doesn’t make a child not a child.
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scipio337
Guest
Does “kid” have the same emotional impact of “child”? Like the photos the press have been using.Because he is a child?
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HailStarofSea
Guest
This is sort of ridiculous. He is a child, and there is nothing wrong with calling him one. And his photos are also fine; there is no reason for the press to stoop to the level of Michelle Malkin and start hunting for unflattering pictures so they can make people think less of the dead child.
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scipio337
Guest
But there IS reason for the press to use older pictures to garner sympathy?
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Dawnia
Guest
Where does Zimmerman call him a kid? I looked but didn’t see anywhere that he called him a kid. I may have just missed it.Because he is a child?
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HailStarofSea
Guest
Is that the reason why the press used the older pictures or are you just making up a personal suspicious motivation? I have never seen another case where the pictures used were criticized for being too flattering, and I have seen flattering pictures posted of even people with horrendous records, i.e. the Norway bomber.But there IS reason for the press to use older pictures to garner sympathy?
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seekerz
Guest
At least one of them professes to have spoken to him, and he presented Zimmerman’s account of events. If they are going to speak on his behalf, one would have to assume that they are going to speak the truth.Zimmerman doesn’t have control over what other people say and does not mean that they speak for him. Do you even know that they spoke to him since the incident? With all the media hype it’s just as easy to assume that they are embellishing the details.
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HailStarofSea
Guest
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seekerz
Guest
Everybody who can publish a webpage has an opinion and a gotcha of someone in this case. The fact remains that all the basis we have in the call for suspicion of Trayvon, resided in Zimmerman’s head. The kid was doing wrong when the report was called and not even Zimmerman’s dad or brother have offered one indication to the contrary. I would imagine that they speak for him, no?As I listen to the 911 call by Z, race doesn’t sound like it was front-and-center on his mind. What’s front-and-center, rather, is that Z believes this guy behaves suspiciously: he doesn’t walk on the boardwalk, he appears to be checking out houses, he walks slowly and stops from time to time in the rain, he comes to Z’s truck and he checks out Z.
When the 911 dispatcher asks, Z gives a description: he is a black male, late teenager. Should all black people feel offended because Z said “black”? Should all guys feel offended because Z said “male”? Should all late teenage folks feel offended and discriminated against, because Z identified the person as “late teenage years”? I think it is rather ridiculous to accuse Z of profiling blacks, males, and late teenage youngsters based on his call.
Yet, I saw an interview with a professional (Brent Bozell?) who documents media bias, and he played back NBC News’s “version” of Z’s 911 call. It turns out NBC News severely edited and “gutted” Z’s call, to make it sound as if Z brought up M’s race without being asked first for a description, and as if he only talked about M’s race without giving a description for identification purposes. According to Bozell, the way NBC News edited Z’s 911 call is despicable and it amounts to more than “distortion”, it amounts to an outward lie. Bozell’s interviewer played back first NBC News’s “doctored” tape, and then the real unedited tape of Z’s 911 call. I have to say the “doctored” tape was quite shocking. There must be a special place in hell for journalists who deliberately incite racial strife by committing this type of lie-by-editing.
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L_piperatus
Guest
NBC News Accused of Editing 911 Call in Trayvon Martin Controversy (Video)
12:28 PM PDT 3/30/2012 by Paul Bond
Critics say the “Today” show attempted to incite racial anger when it cut crucial seconds from audio of a phone call placed by George Zimmerman just before he killed the teenager.
NBC News is being excoriated in some circles – with competitor Fox News Channel leading the charge – for selectively editing audio of the 911 call placed by George Zimmerman just before he killed Trayvon Martin.
The NBC segment in question featured anchor Ron Allen and ran on the Today show on Tuesday. On Thursday, Sean Hannity and guest Brent Bozell played the NBC version of the 911 call and compared it with the unedited version.
In the NBC segment, Zimmerman says: “This guy looks like he’s up to no good. He looks black.”
The full version, though, unfolds like this:
Zimmerman: “This guy looks like he’s up to no good, or he’s on drugs or something. It’s raining and he’s just walking around, looking about.”
911 operator: “Okay. And this guy, is he white black or Hispanic?”
Zimmerman: “He looks black.”
After playing both versions, Hannity said: “They forgot the dispatcher’s question! How could NBC, in good conscience, do that?”
“This isn’t bias, this isn’t distortion, this is an all-out falsehood by NBC News,” answers Bozell, who runs a conservative watchdog group called the Media Research Center.
“When you hear him say, ‘he looks black,’ anyone watching that believes that there are racial overtones to what this man did,” Bozell says. “How could you not believe that? It goes with the narrative of the profiling. The only problem is, they edited out the dispatcher asking him, ‘what does he look like?’”
NBC News declined to comment.
Read more: hollywoodreporter.com/news/trayvon-martin-nbc-news-editing-911-call-306359
Bozell on Hannity ‘Media Mash’: NBC Deliberately Skewed Travyvon Martin Story with Selective Editing
By NB Staff | March 30, 2012 | 10:52
Reacting angrily to selective editing by NBC that suggested racial animus by George Zimmerman, NewsBusters publisher Brent Bozell complained to Fox News’s Sean Hannity last night that NBC News was engaged in an “all-out falsehood.” The story in question was a March 27 Ron Allen report on NBC’s ‘Today’ in which 911 audio was edited to make it sound like George Zimmerman said “he looks black” immediately after saying “this guy looks like he’s up to no good.”
In the actual 911 audio, Zimmerman only described Martin’s race after the dispatcher asked, “And this guy: is he white, black, or Hispanic?” “To edit that out is so distorting,” Hannity complained. “Sean, it’s not distorting, it’s advancing a falsehood, it’s worse,” Bozell corrected the Fox News anchor. [see video below page break]
What’s more, with Al Sharpton in the NBC family on cable channel MSNBC, the network has been ginning up another Tawana Brawley-like atmosphere where passions are whipped into a frenzy before all the facts are laid out on the table.
“The radical left has already acted as judge, jury and executioner in this. This is another Tawana Brawley moment we’re looking at folks,” Bozell noted, reminding viewers that “Sharpton never apologized for that” incident.
“Every single person who hung this person [Zimmerman] without knowing the facts has got to respond to this,” Bozell complained.
Read more: newsbusters.org/blogs/nb-staff/2012/03/29/bozell-irresponsible-media-skewing#ixzz1qdPWakMb
12:28 PM PDT 3/30/2012 by Paul Bond
Critics say the “Today” show attempted to incite racial anger when it cut crucial seconds from audio of a phone call placed by George Zimmerman just before he killed the teenager.
NBC News is being excoriated in some circles – with competitor Fox News Channel leading the charge – for selectively editing audio of the 911 call placed by George Zimmerman just before he killed Trayvon Martin.
The NBC segment in question featured anchor Ron Allen and ran on the Today show on Tuesday. On Thursday, Sean Hannity and guest Brent Bozell played the NBC version of the 911 call and compared it with the unedited version.
In the NBC segment, Zimmerman says: “This guy looks like he’s up to no good. He looks black.”
The full version, though, unfolds like this:
Zimmerman: “This guy looks like he’s up to no good, or he’s on drugs or something. It’s raining and he’s just walking around, looking about.”
911 operator: “Okay. And this guy, is he white black or Hispanic?”
Zimmerman: “He looks black.”
After playing both versions, Hannity said: “They forgot the dispatcher’s question! How could NBC, in good conscience, do that?”
“This isn’t bias, this isn’t distortion, this is an all-out falsehood by NBC News,” answers Bozell, who runs a conservative watchdog group called the Media Research Center.
“When you hear him say, ‘he looks black,’ anyone watching that believes that there are racial overtones to what this man did,” Bozell says. “How could you not believe that? It goes with the narrative of the profiling. The only problem is, they edited out the dispatcher asking him, ‘what does he look like?’”
NBC News declined to comment.
Read more: hollywoodreporter.com/news/trayvon-martin-nbc-news-editing-911-call-306359
Bozell on Hannity ‘Media Mash’: NBC Deliberately Skewed Travyvon Martin Story with Selective Editing
By NB Staff | March 30, 2012 | 10:52
Reacting angrily to selective editing by NBC that suggested racial animus by George Zimmerman, NewsBusters publisher Brent Bozell complained to Fox News’s Sean Hannity last night that NBC News was engaged in an “all-out falsehood.” The story in question was a March 27 Ron Allen report on NBC’s ‘Today’ in which 911 audio was edited to make it sound like George Zimmerman said “he looks black” immediately after saying “this guy looks like he’s up to no good.”
In the actual 911 audio, Zimmerman only described Martin’s race after the dispatcher asked, “And this guy: is he white, black, or Hispanic?” “To edit that out is so distorting,” Hannity complained. “Sean, it’s not distorting, it’s advancing a falsehood, it’s worse,” Bozell corrected the Fox News anchor. [see video below page break]
What’s more, with Al Sharpton in the NBC family on cable channel MSNBC, the network has been ginning up another Tawana Brawley-like atmosphere where passions are whipped into a frenzy before all the facts are laid out on the table.
“The radical left has already acted as judge, jury and executioner in this. This is another Tawana Brawley moment we’re looking at folks,” Bozell noted, reminding viewers that “Sharpton never apologized for that” incident.
“Every single person who hung this person [Zimmerman] without knowing the facts has got to respond to this,” Bozell complained.
Read more: newsbusters.org/blogs/nb-staff/2012/03/29/bozell-irresponsible-media-skewing#ixzz1qdPWakMb
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jen_fla
Guest
his friends could just be offering their opinions. what matters is what george’s defense is. his attorney might have very well told him to keep his mouth shut, because he doesn’t want his words cross examined by the media. hopefully it will all come out during trial.
and as to “young black males” being a defense, i’m with you that that alone is no good. but george was reporting suspicious activity (by his standards) and also giving the description which was of a young black male. if i saw an arab man slowly opening a zipper of someone else’s luggage i’d report him. i’d also report it if it was an elderly white woman. to not report that suspicious activity because we are afraid the world will accuse us of racial profiling is utterly irrational.
again, we will have to wait and see for all the details of what george thought was suspicious. maybe he was going to fill in the officers when they arrived. ultimately though i’m not sure it really matters.
looking at a scenario that is clearly morally wrong, let’s just assume that george hated all black people and did not see trayvon do anything suspicious at all. he followed him and then went up to trayvon, and calmly asked what he was doing in his neighborhood and trayvon got upset and attacked him and started hitting his head on the pavement, george would still be right in defending himself. he’d be guilty of many things (making a false 911 call and slandering trayvon), but not murder or manslaughter.
again, i have no idea what happened. at this point i don’t think george was racist or was engaged in racial profiling. what really matters is when they were in each other’s presence. if we find out george was the first to get physical, then i hope he rots in jail for the rest of his life. if we find out trayvon started the assault then, george should be found innocent.
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Dawnia
Guest
I found it. Thanks.
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iamrefreshed
Guest
This matter may yet be closed.
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jen_fla
Guest
can nbc be sued? utterly disgusting.
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EasterJoy
Guest
Sorry, I wasn’t referring to the moment of the scuffle. I mean that as the law removes the duty to retreat from more and more places, the public will take that as an implied permission to advance into altercations. If you have the right to choose between evading what could be a deadly force assault and preemptively killing an assailant capable of killing you, rather than having the duty to evade where evasion is obviously available, then I think it is common sense that more people are going to get killed, isn’t it?
Forget the Zimmerman-Martin case for a moment. Consider this one:
miamiherald.com/2012/03/27/2717572/miami-dade-issues-ruling-in-stand.html
While I can appreciate that we’d all like to see people be able to stand up to a bully or a thief, I think we can also see that removing limits on where you can legally stand your ground is going to get some people hurt and killed. Removing any duty to retreat when you are facing a trespasser in your own home is one thing. Removing it entirely from all places is another thing altogether.
Let us not judge George Zimmerman’s thinking in the heat of the moment. Who thinks it likely that Trayvon Martin intended to kill George Zimmerman…that is, that he attacked a man older and bigger than he was with the idea that he was going to murder him in broad daylight with his bare hands and hoped get away with it? Or that he thought murdering George Zimmerman was worth the prison time?
This law is going to lead to killings where killings did not have to happen. If George Zimmerman knew that he’d have to try to retreat before he could legally use his gun to defend himself, the chances are that most situations like this will end without a death. I think he knew too much of his rights and appreciated too little the consequences of exercising them to the full extent allowed by the law. That is my point.
It is not just Trayvon Martin we should think about. George Zimmerman could be innocent of any crime, and he’ll still have to live with this for the rest of his life. That is worth considering, too, before we give permission to use deadly force too readily.
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jen_fla
Guest
i do not know if trayvon was doing anything suspicious or not. i was not there. what i do believe is that george thought he was which is why he called 911. could he have made up the whole thing? yes i admit he could have, but i don’t believe it. but even if so that ultimately isn’t what matters. (see last post).
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RACJ
Guest
I support the right to carry, and this self-protection law. One case, even if Martin was innocent, and it’s becoming more apparent that he was NOT, the answer is to prosecute any person who uses this law to cover his own transgression. I imagine that many lives have been saved b/c the fear of God has been put into potentially homicidal criminals. :coffeeread: Rob
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