Trayvon Martin: 'Shoot first' law under scrutiny

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BTW, again if it matters-----

Top voice analysts are now saying that it is NOT GZ’s voice crying for help in the neighbor’s tape. But Trayvon’s.

Interesting development, to say the least.
 
theres little else to rationalize following someone with a gun when theyve done nothing criminal (as far as we know). people like to know why things happen–that just happens to be their best guess. surely youve encountered a situation where you think you know why something happened, despite not having the facts to demonstrate/prove that youre correct.
there was a lot of crime and he was trying to be a guardian to the neighborhood. was he overzealous? probably, but we don’t live in his neighborhood, so we can’t really judge. he thought the teen was suspicious. we didn’t witness what he witnessed. maybe trayvon was running up to the sides of homes to get out of the rain, and to george it looked like he was casing the homes. we just don’t know. that really doesn’t even matter in regards to the shooting. and i see no evidence he was racist at all. he mentored black kids.

*The recent shooting raised troubling questions about whether the homeowners association knew its volunteer was armed with a Kel Tek 9mm semiautomatic handgun. Many residents — black and white — question Zimmerman’s judgment and wonder why he would have engaged the teenager at all.

The answer may lie in police records, which show that 50 suspicious-person reports were called in to police in the past year at Twin Lakes. There were eight burglaries, nine thefts and one other shooting in the year prior to Trayvon’s death.

In all, police had been called to the 260-unit complex 402 times from Jan. 1, 2011 to Feb. 26, 2012.

“He once caught a thief and an arrest was made,” said Cynthia Wibker, secretary of the homeowners association. “He helped solve a lot of crimes.”

Read more here: miamiherald.com/2012/03/17/2700249_p2/shooter-of-trayvon-martin-a-habitual.html#storylink=cpy*
 
there was a lot of crime and he was trying to be a guardian to the neighborhood. was he overzealous? probably, but we don’t live in his neighborhood, so we can’t really judge. he thought the teen was suspicious. we didn’t witness what he witnessed. maybe trayvon was running up to the sides of homes to get out of the rain, and to george it looked like he was casing the homes. we just don’t know. that really doesn’t even matter in regards to the shooting. and i see no evidence he was racist at all. he mentored black kids.
I agree that Mr. Zimmerman could have leapt to conclusions about Trayvon without it being about Trayvon’s race. In a neighborhood where the crime rate is perceived to be high or the neighbors think a brazen thief is on the loose, and someone gets a burr under his saddle not to let the “a*****s” get away with it again, this is the kind of thing that could happen between two strangers of the same race. It could’ve happened to a kid who looked like he could pass for Mr. Zimmerman’s brother, if Mr. Zimmerman thought a thief could look like him…and with an kind of law enforcement classes, I don’t doubt that he would think just that.

I have heard that the neighborhood association may be liable to a lawsuit, because they did not have guidelines in their neighborhood watch program that even discouraged people from carrying firearms. Apparently, if they did not specifically discourage members to avoid taking the law into their own hands or if they didn’t specifically discourage anyone from carrying a gun, they could be held liable. That’s not a racial profiling thing, but an issue of addressing foreseeable dangers in sponsoring this kind of program.
 
I generally give the benefit of the doubt, but the info banner isn’t even in a relevant location. This looks sneaky to say the least 😦
slate, i just went back to the video where abc had put a ridiculously large graphic over george’s head, something that i have never seen abc or any news programming do for that matter… and now that video is gone. guess they got called out for being so unprofessional.

what a joke the the main stream media is.

you can see where we were discussing it 5 days ago here:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=9119890&postcount=786
 
I agree that Mr. Zimmerman could have leapt to conclusions about Trayvon without it being about Trayvon’s race. In a neighborhood where the crime rate is perceived to be high or the neighbors think a brazen thief is on the loose, and someone gets a burr under his saddle not to let the “a*****s” get away with it again, this is the kind of thing that could happen between two strangers of the same race. It could’ve happened to a kid who looked like he could pass for Mr. Zimmerman’s brother, if Mr. Zimmerman thought a thief could look like him…and with an kind of law enforcement classes, I don’t doubt that he would think just that.

I have heard that the neighborhood association may be liable to a lawsuit, because they did not have guidelines in their neighborhood watch program that even discouraged people from carrying firearms. Apparently, if they did not specifically discourage members to avoid taking the law into their own hands or if they didn’t specifically discourage anyone from carrying a gun, they could be held liable. That’s not a racial profiling thing, but an issue of addressing foreseeable dangers in sponsoring this kind of program.
unless they hired him or it was an official position, i don’t think they have any right to tell him he couldn’t arm himself. most neighborhood watch programs are where people agree to keep an eye out for suspicious behavior, but it’s informal.

a former neighborhood block captain said:

*Problems in the 6-year-old community started during the recession, when foreclosures forced owners to rent out to “low-lifes and gangsters,” said Frank Taaffe, a former neighborhood block captain.

“Just two weeks before this shooting, George called me at my girlfriend’s house to say he saw some black guy doing surveillance at my house, because I had a left a window open,” Taaffe said. “He thwarted a potential burglary of my house.”

Taaffe sounded chagrined when he noted that the complex is now majority-minority. Census figures show Retreat at Twin Lakes is 49 percent white, non-Hispanic, 23 percent Hispanic, 20 percent African-American and 5 percent Asian.

He suspects Zimmerman got tired of thugs “and reached his breaking point,” Taaffe said. “But why was he carrying a gun? Why not carry pepper spray or a Taser? That’s bizarre-o.”

Read more here: miamiherald.com/2012/03/17/2700249_p2/shooter-of-trayvon-martin-a-habitual.html#storylink=cpy#storylink=cpy*
 
Are you being obtuse?
You went from saying you saw a broken nose to saying you saw a mark on the back of his head. Doesn’t really add up too well. It seems you accept and incoherently repeat any bit of fake evidence supporting Zimmerman. What’s up with that?

All we are saying is that there has been a terrible miscarriage of justice here. If Zimmerman had been arrested and charged, it would not be in the national news and we wouldn’t be discussing it. I truly do not understand people who are emotionally defending Zimmerman. I think they have some serious issues (I don’t mean you necessarily BTW, I mean in general.)
 
Ya, thanks. I had to watch Obama propaganda about the ACA before watching it…😦
scott, you must think i’m the biggest dummy, but i can’t seem to follow your acronyms. i did a google search for aca and here is what came up:

american counseling association
american camp association
american correctional association
american canoe association
american chiropractic association
american canine association
and
american cornhole association!

😃
 
You went from saying you saw a broken nose to saying you saw a mark on the back of his head. Doesn’t really add up too well. It seems you accept and incoherently repeat any bit of fake evidence supporting Zimmerman. What’s up with that?

All we are saying is that there has been a terrible miscarriage of justice here. If Zimmerman had been arrested and charged, it would not be in the national news and we wouldn’t be discussing it. I truly do not understand people who are emotionally defending Zimmerman. I think they have some serious issues (I don’t mean you necessarily BTW, I mean in general.)
not to barge into your conversation, but do you think the police report that stated george had injuries to the back of his head and nose was fake?
 
not to barge into your conversation, but do you think the police report that stated george had injuries to the back of his head and nose was fake?
please cite.

Do you think the video of him entering the police station 38 minutes later was fake? No EMT could fix injuries that fast, and real injuries would have required a trip to the hospital.
 
please cite.

Do you think the video of him entering the police station 38 minutes later was fake? No EMT could fix injuries that fast, and real injuries would have required a trip to the hospital.
cite what? my question i asked you?
 
You went from saying you saw a broken nose to saying you saw a mark on the back of his head. Doesn’t really add up too well. It seems you accept and incoherently repeat any bit of fake evidence supporting Zimmerman. What’s up with that?
I said it shouldn’t be too hard to find out if he had a broken nose or not and that the wounds on the back of his head were visible. I really don’t think I’m that hard to understand, am I?
All we are saying is that there has been a terrible miscarriage of justice here. If Zimmerman had been arrested and charged, it would not be in the national news and we wouldn’t be discussing it. I truly do not understand people who are emotionally defending Zimmerman. I think they have some serious issues (I don’t mean you necessarily BTW, I mean in general.)
All I’m saying is if Zimmerman walks you still ain’t gonna be happy and the race baiters will still blame it on race.
 
please cite.

Do you think the video of him entering the police station 38 minutes later was fake? No EMT could fix injuries that fast, and real injuries would have required a trip to the hospital.
EMT’s don’t fix injuries, they stop the bleeding and determine the patients needs. If the patient wishes they can go to the hospital, which I believe he did following his trip to the police station. Unless your a qualified medical person, please don’t assume what an EMT can or can not do.
 
please cite.

Do you think the video of him entering the police station 38 minutes later was fake? No EMT could fix injuries that fast, and real injuries would have required a trip to the hospital.
is the police report what you what me to cite? wasn’t sure, because it’s been cited numerous times already. anyway here it is.

so back to the question. do you think the officer gave false information when he wrote in the police report that he noted bleeding from zimmerman’s head and nose?
 
scott, you must think i’m the biggest dummy, but i can’t seem to follow your acronyms. i did a google search for aca and here is what came up:

american counseling association
american camp association
american correctional association
american canoe association
american chiropractic association
american canine association
and
american cornhole association!

😃
Affordable Care Act.
 
trayvon wasnt spotted breaking into any homes as far as i know. why would he suspect trayvon of being a thief as opposed to someone else?
Mr. Zimmerman has repeated why several times.
 
Are you sure know the difference between fact and opinion? The uncontested facts and well-cou of this story that I mentioned are:

Zimmerman’s past involves attacking a police officer. Trayvon had just left a local convenience story where he had bought some candy. He was walking back to his relative’s house. He was talking to his girlfriend on the phone, according to cell phone records.

Which part of that do you think is my opinion?

Don’t you want Zimmerman to go on trial, or do you advocate letting him run free?
Actually, you have your facts wrong. Trayvon was not walking back to a relatives house. He was walking back to his father’s fiancee’s house.
 
According to at least one attorney associated with the Martin family that I saw on TV, one of the witnesses to a portion of the altercation between GZ and TM saw them fighting in grass.

Going by the information I see on TV. Guess those witnesses will have to be questioned properly under oath and then the jury (if one convenes) will have to determine what or what is true.

If I’m wrong, please correct me.
It now appears that the attorneys for the Martin family have a problem with the truth. The State Attorney Norm Wolfinger has stated that the lead detective never asked that charges be filed that night and has asked that the justice department investigate where or why that claim was being passed of as fact by the family’s lawyers.

clickorlando.com/news/State-Attorney-Norm-Wolfinger-outraged-by-federal-review-request/-/1637132/10042672/-/tovmqt/-/index.html
 
EMT’s don’t fix injuries, they stop the bleeding and determine the patients needs. If the patient wishes they can go to the hospital, which I believe he did following his trip to the police station. Unless your a qualified medical person, please don’t assume what an EMT can or can not do.
Reportedly he went the next day, from which fact, if verified, the jury will be free to reach its own conclusions regarding the seriousness of the head banging he reportedly received.
 
It now appears that the attorneys for the Martin family have a problem with the truth. The State Attorney Norm Wolfinger has stated that the lead detective never asked that charges be filed that night and has asked that the justice department investigate where or why that claim was being passed of as fact by the family’s lawyers.

clickorlando.com/news/State-Attorney-Norm-Wolfinger-outraged-by-federal-review-request/-/1637132/10042672/-/tovmqt/-/index.html
On what basis do you conclude that the attorneys are being dishonest? On the word of the State Attorney whom they are criticizing? Don’t get me wrong, I have no great expectation of truth from people adept at spinning it, but aren’t they both lawyers?

Bottom line is that with a proper investigation, all of what is happening today would have been completely unnecessary. Do it right the first time, is my advice.
 
Mr. Zimmerman has repeated why several times.
Actually, he has only given his impressions of Trayvon, not any behavior that would justify, for example, the opinion that the child might be on drugs or up to no good.
 
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