Trayvon Martin: 'Shoot first' law under scrutiny

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On what basis do you conclude that the attorneys are being dishonest? On the word of the State Attorney whom they are criticizing? Don’t get me wrong, I have no great expectation of truth from people adept at spinning it, but aren’t they both lawyers?

Bottom line is that with a proper investigation, all of what is happening today would have been completely unnecessary. Do it right the first time, is my advice.
I watched the family attorney being interviewed this morning. When asked who their source was for this claim they refused to name it - at one time they implied it was the lead detective - now its “someone else”. If the State Attorney were being untruthful why would he ask for an investigation into this matter? All it would reveal (hopefully) is the truth - not something a liar would want revealed.

No one else has stepped up to back the family attorney’s claim that local police wanted to press charges that night - why is that? It’s not a big issue but its one of the few the claims that have been raised - not it appears to be unravelling like many of the story lines.

Things the media announced that are now proven not true:
  1. George Zimmerman was questioned and released at the scene
  2. George Zimmerman suffered no injuries
  3. George Zimmerman was “patroling”
  4. Police wanted to charge Zimmerman that night
  5. Martin was chased down and confronted
  6. Martin was beaten then shot
  7. Zimmerman was a racist white man
 
I watched the family attorney being interviewed this morning. When asked who their source was for this claim they refused to name it - at one time they implied it was the lead detective - now its “someone else”. If the State Attorney were being untruthful why would he ask for an investigation into this matter? All it would reveal (hopefully) is the truth - not something a liar would want revealed.

No one else has stepped up to back the family attorney’s claim that local police wanted to press charges that night - why is that? It’s not a big issue but its one of the few the claims that have been raised - not it appears to be unravelling like many of the story lines.

Things the media announced that are now proven not true:
  1. George Zimmerman was questioned and released at the scene
  2. George Zimmerman suffered no injuries
  3. George Zimmerman was “patroling”
  4. Police wanted to charge Zimmerman that night
  5. Martin was chased down and confronted
  6. Martin was beaten then shot
  7. Zimmerman was a racist white man
Where has it been proven that SOME police did not want to charge GZ that night? There is evidence that some did want to charge him.

And are you saying that you agree with GZ’s version of events and the police did right in not investigating?

TM was just a secret thug who decided to attack a neighborhood patrol guy for no reason…

OK.

Yep.
 
Where has it been proven that SOME police did not want to charge GZ that night? There is evidence that some did want to charge him.
What evidence?

It may be true that some police did want to charge him (I haven’t seen anything specific from the police that indicates this), but the specific claim that the lead investigator asked the state attorney for the means to make an arrest is disputed by the state attorney and is not being supported by the lead investigator (apparently he has the good sense to only release information to those that need to know).
And are you saying that you agree with GZ’s version of events and the police did right in not investigating?
.
Who said the police did not investigate this matter? If that claim is being made it is patently false.
 
On what basis do you conclude that the attorneys are being dishonest? On the word of the State Attorney whom they are criticizing? Don’t get me wrong, I have no great expectation of truth from people adept at spinning it, but aren’t they both lawyers?

Bottom line is that with a proper investigation, all of what is happening today would have been completely unnecessary. Do it right the first time, is my advice.
So, unless Eric Holder and Obama themselves come down and do their own Sherlock Holmes investigation and convict George as Judge, Jury and Executioner. Your going to call every lawyer a liar?
 
Actually, he has only given his impressions of Trayvon, not any behavior that would justify, for example, the opinion that the child might be on drugs or up to no good.
I never claimed he was justified to anyone other than himself.

And justify is obviously a personal opinion. For example your justify may be very different from someone on a neighborhood watch that has seen a rash of recent crime in their neighborhood.
 
What evidence?

It may be true that some police did want to charge him (I haven’t seen anything specific from the police that indicates this), but the specific claim that the lead investigator asked the state attorney for the means to make an arrest is disputed by the state attorney and is not being supported by the lead investigator (apparently he has the good sense to only release information to those that need to know).

Who said the police did not investigate this matter? If that claim is being made it is patently false.
The thing you forget is-------

Nobody is disputing that lead investigator decided not to pursue the case. What is being claimed is that the lead investigator and state attorney decide not to listen to the recommendations of some of the cops involved for a manslaughter charge and instead overrode them-----citing “lack of evidence.”
  1. First of all----what were the circumstances under which they made that decision?
  2. Second-----what did they mean by “lack of evidence?” They need to make that clear. When dealing with a serious case like this, not following ALL of them does not lead to justice in any case. They never questioned the girlfriend, never checked up on the fact that Zimmerman seemed hardly to be worse for wear after going through a supposedly harrowing life and death struggle, etc.
Unlike you, while I totally lean conservative and totally support the police most times, I am not naive enough to think that simply becasue a policeman is a policeman does not mean they are not human and prone to sin and corruption than the rest of us. Has it ever occurred to you that maybe the police department and the state attorney general is conspitring to withhold evidence? Maybe cover up for Zimmerman? That is what a lot of people are saying and what is borne out by the easy way Zimmerman’s story was just accepted by the police.

Sorry, I do not trust the police THAT much. Worthless little “liberal” that I am. Sheesh.

We need an independent investigator.

I trust----but I also verify. They should have doen the same. And we NEED to have this investiagtion go on right now to get to the bottom of this, lokat ALL angles and ALL evidence, and follow where it may lead. WHEREVER it MAY lead.

Remmebr, the police department of Sanford was being investigated for racial profiling and racial insensitivity before this even began. So yes, there IS a possiblity that a police cover-up was involved here.

No, that does not make me a “conspiracy theorist.” :rolleyes: Just a realist.

Seems to me there has been a rush to judgement----on BOTH sides. Martin has also been portrayed as this hidden thug who just attacked Zimemrman for no apparent reason.

BTW, you did not answer the question------

DO you think (at least you seem to be thinking that) that TM was a thug who just decided to attack somone for no reason?

Just seems to be that people are seeming to be going over backwards to explain and even rationalize every single little thing Zimmerman did on that night (fair enough) but do not give that same courtesy to Martin. Not you, necessarily, but many on this board.

In God’s name----what have we come to as a society? You look at me wrong or you stare at me because I have been following you and now I have a right or instigate a fight where I end up shooting you?:rolleyes::rolleyes:

I pray and also tremble for the judgement God will visit upon this country during the End Times. :signofcross:
 
A task force to review whether to shut the barn door after the horses have got out
miamiherald.com/2012/04/03/2729269/task-force-launched-to-review.html#storylink=cpy
Task force launched to review Stand Your Ground law after Trayvon Martin shooting
Source: Miami Herald
Posted on Tuesday, 04.03.12
Task force launched to review Stand Your Ground law after Trayvon Martin shooting
Sen. Chris Smith, frustrated by what he calls slow movement by Gov. Rick Scott after the shooting death of unarmed teen Trayvon Martin, is launching a task force to review the controversial law at the center of the case.
“Instead of waiting on the governor to act, I’ve decided to lead in the state of Florida,” the Fort Lauderdale Democrat said. “I’ve assembled a task force to look at the controversial Stand Your Ground law.”
Gov. Scott has created a task force to review Stand Your Ground, but has said the group will not convene until after the investigation into the Trayvon Martin shooting is completed.
 
The thing you forget is-------

Nobody is disputing that lead investigator decided not to pursue the case. What is being claimed is that the lead investigator and state attorney decide not to listen to the recommendations of some of the cops involved for a manslaughter charge and instead overrode them-----citing “lack of evidence.”
:
REALLY?
The lead homicide investigator in the shooting of unarmed teenager Trayvon Martin recommended that neighborhood watch captain George Zimmerman be charged with manslaughter the night of the shooting, multiple sources told ABC News.
But Sanford, Fla., Investigator Chris Serino was instructed to not press charges against Zimmerman because the state attorney’s office headed by Norman Wolfinger determined there wasn’t enough evidence to lead to a conviction, the sources told ABC News.
abcnews.go.com/US/trayvon-martin-investigator-wanted-charge-george-zimmerman-manslaughter/story?id=16011674
 
Just seems to be that people are seeming to be going over backwards to explain and even rationalize every single little thing Martin did on that night (fair enough) but do not give that same courtesy to Zimmerman. Not you, necessarily, but many on this board.
Fixed it for you.
 
What evidence?

It may be true that some police did want to charge him (I haven’t seen anything specific from the police that indicates this), but the specific claim that the lead investigator asked the state attorney for the means to make an arrest is disputed by the state attorney and is not being supported by the lead investigator (apparently he has the good sense to only release information to those that need to know).

Who said the police did not investigate this matter? If that claim is being made it is patently false.
This.

“I demand justice for a botched police investigation that I know absolutely nothing about!”
 
Keep in mind two things, this child, Treyvon was perfectly capable of killing George with his hands and feet and not everyone who ends up dead in a fight is a victim.

You are entitled to your opinion, don’t let me get in the way. Let’s just keep it reasonable. Not knowing many details we probably shouldnt personally convict George. You can regardless of what anyone says, but should you?
“Perfectly capable of killing George with his hands and feet.” ?

This is a child who spent only fifteen summers on this earth, who was carrying home a cold drink and candy, who is now dead at the hands of a gunman. It is perfectly reasonable for us to pause and reflect upon such a tragedy. It is reasonable to listen to the recording that has been made public. Zimmerman was told not to pursue, and he ignored that order. It is reasonable to follow the trial, and express opinions.

A fair match? A fifteen year old armed with iced tea and candy, against a larger adult male with a loaded gun *pursuing him, (after being instructed by the authorities not to.) * That is just part of the many things the court will consider if this goes to trial. Who initiated the altercation will play a part. Which person pursued the other with a loaded gun? That will play a part. These are all perfectly reasonable questions.

Keep in mind that the sound recording has been heard all over the world. This is not personal opinion, but fact:

Zimmerman was asked by the authorities:

“Are you following him?”
Answer “Yes”
Authorities" We need you to not do that."

Zimmerman was told not to pursue. Had he remained where he was, and not forced the altercation, Trayvon would be alive.

No one here is personally convicting anyone. That is for the courts. We are on an open forum where we can discuss our opinions after looking at the facts.
*
One very tragic and disturbing fact is this: The recording of the instructions to Zimmerman to not follow Trayvon is a fact heard 'round the world.*

This tragedy needs to be fully investigated in a court of law, and by the same rule of law, it is also our right to form opinions and to express them. We would not want to be under any regime that disallows public expression of opinion. We all pray for justice, and I’m sure everyone here can understand Trayvon’s family’s grief, and their right in demanding justice be done for their child.
 
Zimmerman was asked by the authorities:

“Are you following him?”
Answer “Yes”
Authorities" We need you to not do that."

Zimmerman was told not to pursue. Had he remained where he was, and not forced the altercation, Trayvon would be alive.

No one here is personally convicting anyone. That is for the courts. We are on an open forum where we can discuss our opinions after looking at the facts.
*
One very tragic and disturbing fact is this: The recording of the instructions to Zimmerman to not follow Trayvon is a fact heard 'round the world.*

This tragedy needs to be fully investigated in a court of law, and by the same rule of law, it is also our right to form opinions and to express them. We would not want to be under any regime that disallows public expression of opinion. We all pray for justice, and I’m sure everyone here can understand Trayvon’s family’s grief, and their right in demanding justice be done for their child.
I notice your ABCisque editing when you cut the part where he complied.

Source that Zimmerman did not stop following Martin?
 
40.png
Kathryn_Ann:
“Pursuing someone” is not against the law.

Also, you need to charge someone with a crime before dragging them into court. You know, that whole presumption of innocense thingy.
 
“Perfectly capable of killing George with his hands and feet.” ?

This is a child who spent only fifteen summers on this earth, who was carrying home a cold drink and candy, who is now dead at the hands of a gunman. It is perfectly reasonable for us to pause and reflect upon such a tragedy. It is reasonable to listen to the recording that has been made public. Zimmerman was told not to pursue, and he ignored that order. It is reasonable to follow the trial, and express opinions.

A fair match? A fifteen year old armed with iced tea and candy, against a larger adult male with a loaded gun *pursuing him, (after being instructed by the authorities not to.) * That is just part of the many things the court will consider if this goes to trial. Who initiated the altercation will play a part. Which person pursued the other with a loaded gun? That will play a part. These are all perfectly reasonable questions.

Keep in mind that the sound recording has been heard all over the world. This is not personal opinion, but fact:

Zimmerman was asked by the authorities:

“Are you following him?”
Answer “Yes”
Authorities" We need you to not do that."

Zimmerman was told not to pursue. Had he remained where he was, and not forced the altercation, Trayvon would be alive.

No one here is personally convicting anyone. That is for the courts. We are on an open forum where we can discuss our opinions after looking at the facts.
*
One very tragic and disturbing fact is this: The recording of the instructions to Zimmerman to not follow Trayvon is a fact heard 'round the world.*

This tragedy needs to be fully investigated in a court of law, and by the same rule of law, it is also our right to form opinions and to express them. We would not want to be under any regime that disallows public expression of opinion. We all pray for justice, and I’m sure everyone here can understand Trayvon’s family’s grief, and their right in demanding justice be done for their child.
He was 17 years old.

Ill leave you with the emotional argument now, I won’t get through it.
 
“Perfectly capable of killing George with his hands and feet.” ?

This is a child who spent only fifteen summers on this earth, who was carrying home a cold drink and candy, who is now dead at the hands of a gunman. It is perfectly reasonable for us to pause and reflect upon such a tragedy. It is reasonable to listen to the recording that has been made public. Zimmerman was told not to pursue, and he ignored that order. It is reasonable to follow the trial, and express opinions.

A fair match? A fifteen year old armed with iced tea and candy, against a larger adult male with a loaded gun *pursuing him, (after being instructed by the authorities not to.) * That is just part of the many things the court will consider if this goes to trial. Who initiated the altercation will play a part. Which person pursued the other with a loaded gun? That will play a part. These are all perfectly reasonable questions.

Keep in mind that the sound recording has been heard all over the world. This is not personal opinion, but fact:

Zimmerman was asked by the authorities:

“Are you following him?”
Answer “Yes”
Authorities" We need you to not do that."

Zimmerman was told not to pursue. Had he remained where he was, and not forced the altercation, Trayvon would be alive.

No one here is personally convicting anyone. That is for the courts. We are on an open forum where we can discuss our opinions after looking at the facts.
*
One very tragic and disturbing fact is this: The recording of the instructions to Zimmerman to not follow Trayvon is a fact heard 'round the world.*

This tragedy needs to be fully investigated in a court of law, and by the same rule of law, it is also our right to form opinions and to express them. We would not want to be under any regime that disallows public expression of opinion. We all pray for justice, and I’m sure everyone here can understand Trayvon’s family’s grief, and their right in demanding justice be done for their child.
The child that only spent 15 summers here somehow made it to age 17. That is quite a feat.

What else written here is based on fantasy?
 
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