Trent Horn - Does it matter which Christian denomination you belong to?

[steve_b]

In my view, it matters that a Christian denomination have the following characteristics, among others:

– It needs to preach Christ and Him crucified, which is the heart of the Gospel: (I Cor 2:1-2)
“*And so it was with me, brothers and sisters. When I came to you, I did not come with eloquence or human wisdom as I proclaimed to you the testimony about God.[a] 2 For I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ and him crucified”. *

– It needs to facilitate and encourage the believer to make this his priority:
Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’[a] 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’. Matt 22:

– It needs to be a place where believers show love for one another (I John 4:7-8)
Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. 8The one who does not love does not know God, for God is love.…

**I know of some people who say they have achieved their full potential as Christians through Catholicism, and I believe them. I also know some folks who have done likewise in other Christian faith traditions. I believe that God leads a person who seeks Him with all his heart to where he is supposed to be. **

In my view, not all denominations are equal, but there is more than one denomination where a person can come to know, love, and serve our Lord and live a fulfilled life as a Christ-follower.

Jesus said the following

• I will build my Church and not even the gates of hell will prevail against it Matthew 16:18 . Pope Francis is 266th succssor to St Peter in Our Lord’s Church
• There is to be zero division in my ChurchJohn 17:20-23
• If one divides διχοστασίας] from my Church and remains divided they won’t inherit heaven Galatians 5:21
• and we see His Church from the beginning #34

Romans 16:17-20 (links operational)
[17] Now I beseech you, brethren, to mark them who make dissensions διχοστασίας] and offences contrary to the doctrine which you have learned, and avoid them. [18] For they that are such, serve not Christ our Lord, but their own belly; and by pleasing speeches and good words, seduce the hearts of the innocent. [19] For your obedience is published in every place. I rejoice therefore in you. But I would have you to be wise in good, and simple in evil. [20] And the God of peace crush Satan under your feet speedily. The

Galatians 5:19-21
[19] Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are fornication, uncleanness, immodesty, luxury, [20] Idolatry, witchcrafts, enmities, contentions, emulations, wraths, quarrels, dissensions, διχοστασίας] sects, [21] Envies, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like. Of the which I foretell you, as I have foretold to you, that they who do such things shall not obtain the kingdom of God.

There is no expiration date to that warning and consequence. Protestants regardless of stripe, beware of remaining Protestant.

 

[steve_b]

The source is a Muslim Tradition quoted by Baha’u’llah

"Likewise, strive thou to comprehend the meaning of the melody of that eternal beauty, Ḥusayn, son of ‘Alí, who, addressing Salmán, spoke words such as these: “I was with a thousand Adams, the interval between each and the next Adam was fifty thousand years, and to each one of these I declared the Successorship conferred upon my father.” He then recounteth certain details, until he saith: “I have fought one thousand battles in the path of God, the least and most insignificant of which was like the battle of Khaybar, in which battle my father fought and contended against the infidels.” Endeavour now to apprehend from these two traditions the mysteries of “end,” “return,” and “creation without beginning or end.” reference.bahai.org/en/t/b/KI/ki-6.html

Other sources have larger time scales

Seventy thousand years after completing the universe, God created a human being called Adam, but not the Adam of our ancestors. He was the first Adam who lived on the earthly world long before the Adam of our ancestors was born. This earlier Adam gave rise to descendants but all were vanished; the last descendant died 10,000 years after the first Adam was born. God then created another Adam, but, again, he and his descendants vanished after 10,000 years. This was repeated again and again until 10,000 Adams had been created (the last one, the ten thousandth, was the Adam of our ancestors). It is unclear whether they lived here on our earth, or somewhere else. Supposing they really did live on this earth, it follows that since there had been 10,000 Adams (each Adam and his descendants lasting ten thousand years), our earth, according to this myth, has already been in existence for about 100,000 million years; whereas, the history of mankind since (our) Adam has been less than 10,000 years press.anu.edu.au/islamic/itc/mobile_devices/ch03s02.html

Regards Tony

a Muslin source doesn’t fit the context of the thread.

 

[Starwarsfan2]

Jesus said the following

• I will build my Church and not even the gates of hell will prevail against it Matthew 16:18 . Pope Francis is 266th succssor to St Peter in Our Lord’s Church
• There is to be zero division in my ChurchJohn 17:20-23
• If one divides διχοστασίας] from my Church and remains divided they won’t inherit heaven Galatians 5:21
• and we see His Church from the beginning #34

Romans 16:17-20 (links operational)
[17] Now I beseech you, brethren, to mark them who make dissensions διχοστασίας] and offences contrary to the doctrine which you have learned, and avoid them. [18] For they that are such, serve not Christ our Lord, but their own belly; and by pleasing speeches and good words, seduce the hearts of the innocent. [19] For your obedience is published in every place. I rejoice therefore in you. But I would have you to be wise in good, and simple in evil. [20] And the God of peace crush Satan under your feet speedily. The

Galatians 5:19-21
[19] Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are fornication, uncleanness, immodesty, luxury, [20] Idolatry, witchcrafts, enmities, contentions, emulations, wraths, quarrels, dissensions, διχοστασίας] sects, [21] Envies, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like. Of the which I foretell you, as I have foretold to you, that they who do such things shall not obtain the kingdom of God.

There is no expiration date to that warning and consequence. Protestants regardless of stripe, beware of remaining Protestant.

The divisions you twist actually refers to heresy NOT schism

 

[steve_b]

The divisions you twist actually refers to heresy NOT schism

schism **and **heresy divide one from the Church. THAT MATTERS for one’s soul

 

[Seekerjn316]

Jesus said the following

There is no expiration date to that warning and consequence. Protestants regardless of stripe, beware of remaining Protestant.

I was wondering when someone was going to throw out the “be warned damnation will follow” card.

Rarely do such ominous “threats” sway anyone no more than " the sky is falling" did for Chicken Little ’ s audience.

 

[Starwarsfan2]

schism **and **heresy divide one from the Church. THAT MATTERS for one’s soul

Schism does split the church , but does not cause loss of salvation, heresy does.

 

[Gilrod7]

What exactly do you mean by “does it matter?” Does it matter in terms of salvation? Does it matter in regards to which branch of Christianity holds the truth in relation to other branches of Christianity? Would it matter if you are a Orthodox Christian, Catholic, Baptist, Lutheran, Mormon, Jehovah Witness, Episcopalian, or a Methodist? What consequences do these religions carry if you are a follower?

First, are you feeding the poor or are you making a pastor/elder or a priest life more comfortable? Didn’t Jesus say that one cannot serve two masters? One cannot be a lover of money and be of God. Second, are you visiting the imprisoned ones, or are you too busy occupying your time doing something else more important to you? Third, are you clothing the poor? Are you occupying your time being an altruist outside your work schedule? Are you loving your neighbor as yourself? Do you love God more than anything and anyone else in existence?

Personally, belonging to Christ does not require one to follow a religion, as long as one is following what he left behind, not what men teach.

 

[Seekerjn316]

What exactly do you mean by “does it matter?” Does it matter in terms of salvation? Does it matter in regards to which branch of Christianity holds the truth in relation to other branches of Christianity? Would it matter if you are a Orthodox Christian, Catholic, Baptist, Lutheran, Mormon, Jehovah Witness, Episcopalian, or a Methodist? What consequences do these religions carry if you are a follower?

First, are you feeding the poor or are you making a pastor/elder or a priest life more comfortable? Didn’t Jesus say that one cannot serve two masters? One cannot be a lover of money and be of God. Second, are you visiting the imprisoned ones, or are you too busy occupying your time doing something else more important to you? Third, are you clothing the poor? Are you occupying your time being an altruist outside your work schedule? Are you loving your neighbor as yourself? Do you love God more than anything and anyone else in existence?

Personally, belonging to Christ does not require one to follow a religion, as long as one is following what he left behind, not what men teach.

 

[steve_b]

I was wondering when someone was going to throw out the “be warned damnation will follow” card.

Rarely do such ominous “threats” sway anyone no more than " the sky is falling" did for Chicken Little ’ s audience.

That’s your answer?

Don’t warn people in advance with consequences to their behavior that you know are there because in your mind consequences don’t motivate behavior?

From the beginning, God didn’t just say to the first humans, do this or that, and don’t do this or that, and just leave it at that. He put clear and concise consequences for disobedience to His instructions. He didn’t just give them cause with no effect. Cause and effect went together

Starting from the very beginning,

Gen 2: 16 And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, “You may freely eat of every tree of the garden; 17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall die.”

And guess what. They chose instead to listen to the council of the other guy in the garden, the adversary of God. So they disobeyed God, and sure enough just as God warned them in advance, the consequence, they died.

Lots of examples can be used to expand this answer.

Bottom line, consequences motivate behavior… both good and bad.

 

[steve_b]

Schism does split the church , but does not cause loss of salvation heresy does.

Prove it.

I gave the scriptures that contradicts that.

 

[steve_b]

Personally, belonging to Christ does not require one to follow a religion, as long as one is following what he left behind, not what men teach.

Jesus left us the Catholic Church. Are you saying it doesn’t matter if one follows Catholicism or not?

 

[Starwarsfan2]

Prove it.

I gave the scriptures that contradicts that.

Nope , the Greek word ( from the verse in Galatians ) can be translated heresies , or mere dissensions , which makes more sense believers have disagreements, but that does not kick them out of heaven as you suggest ( and that essentially IS what you suggest )

Keep the faith Steve , Starwars

 

[steve_b]

Nope , the Greek word ( from the verse in Galatians ) can be translated -]heresies/-] , or mere dissensions

Keep the faith Steve , Starwars

Re: division, schism. sedition

That word is διχοστασίας]

"διχοστασία, διχοστασίας, ἡ (διχοστατέωto stand apart), dissension, division; plural: Romans 16:17; 1 Corinthians 3:3 (Rec.); Galatians 5:20. (Occasionally in Greek writings from Solon in Demosthenes, p. 423, 4 and Herodotus 5, 75 on; (1 Macc. 3:29).) "

Strong’s
division, sedition.
From a derivative of dis and stasis; disunion, i.e. (figuratively) dissension – division, sedition.

schism, division, sedition, dissension, all go together.

From another source

From the Summa google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CB8QFjAAahUKEwjN7Y70vfLIAhVOOogKHa_JAwo&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.newadvent.org%2Fsumma%2F3042.htm&usg=AFQjCNFGiS-7yb2AwFRPNxlI9RXMlIzrbA

Re: Heresy OTOH I’ve quoted the following

Titus 3:10
“As for a man who is factious ( αἱρετικὸν heretic ), after admonishing him once or twice, have nothing more to do with him, 11 knowing that such a person is perverted and sinful; he is self-condemned.”

 

[Seekerjn316]

That’s your answer?

Don’t warn people in advance with consequences to their behavior that you know are there because in your mind consequences don’t motivate behavior?

From the beginning, God didn’t just say to the first humans, do this or that, and don’t do this or that, and just leave it at that. He put clear and concise consequences for disobedience to His instructions. He didn’t just give them cause with no effect. Cause and effect went together

Starting from the very beginning,

Gen 2: 16 And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, “You may freely eat of every tree of the garden; 17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall die.”

And guess what. They chose instead to listen to the council of the other guy in the garden, the adversary of God. So they disobeyed God, and sure enough just as God warned them in advance, the consequence, they died.

Lots of examples can be used to expand this answer.

Bottom line, consequences motivate behavior… both good and bad.

.

Your “warning” will be give all the consideration it deserves.

 

[Gilrod7]

Jesus left us the Catholic Church. Are you saying it doesn’t matter if one follows Catholicism or not?

From my understanding of history and the origin of religions, Christianity was banned by the Roman Empire the first 200 years or so after Christ’s death. Constantine, the emperor of that time found it convenient to use Christianity as a way of uniting the Roman Empire (Economic purposes/Building community). As soon as Constantine converted… Well the rest is blasphemy to us Catholics. If you happen to not know, use search engines provided by scholars.

Let me point this out, what good is it to be a Catholic, if one never practices the philosophy of Jesus Christ? What good is it to be a Catholic when one is pursuing earthly things and security in the comfort of one’s own home when there are millions in a state of poverty? What good is to be a Catholic when one has never offered to reach out for people that are incarcerated? The typical attitude? F… them, they will burn in hell.

Again what does it mean when the author of this thread says, “Does it matter?” It’s not clear, does it matter in terms of salvation? No religious biases here, only the Lord knows.

In essence, faith(Catholic)=no works then it doesn’t matter if one is Catholic or not, one won’t be good in the eyes of the Lord. :dts:

 

[JMM1957]

What exactly do you mean by “does it matter?” Does it matter in terms of salvation? Does it matter in regards to which branch of Christianity holds the truth in relation to other branches of Christianity? Would it matter if you are a Orthodox Christian, Catholic, Baptist, Lutheran, Mormon, Jehovah Witness, Episcopalian, or a Methodist? What consequences do these religions carry if you are a follower?

First, are you feeding the poor or are you making a pastor/elder or a priest life more comfortable? Didn’t Jesus say that one cannot serve two masters? One cannot be a lover of money and be of God. Second, are you visiting the imprisoned ones, or are you too busy occupying your time doing something else more important to you? Third, are you clothing the poor? Are you occupying your time being an altruist outside your work schedule? Are you loving your neighbor as yourself? Do you love God more than anything and anyone else in existence?

Personally, belonging to Christ does not require one to follow a religion, as long as one is following what he left behind, not what men teach.

One needs to follow the teachings of “one man”, Jesus Christ, and those teachings are contained in one true Church guided by the Holy Spirit as promised, which that “one man”, Jesus, established.

 

[steve_b]

From my understanding of history and the origin of religions, Christianity was banned by the Roman Empire the first 200 years or so after Christ’s death.

From it’s origin, Christianity and Catholicism were synonymous #34
G:

Constantine, the emperor of that time found it convenient to use Christianity as a way of uniting the Roman Empire (Economic purposes/Building community). As soon as Constantine converted…

Constantine didn’t covert till 300+ years after Jesus established the Catholic Church
G:

Well the rest is blasphemy to us Catholics. If you happen to not know, use search engines provided by scholars.

What is (“the rest”) that you are referring to?

Here is what you wrote that I responded to (emphasis mine)

Originally Posted by Gilrod7 forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_khaki/viewpost.gif
*
Personally, belonging to Christ does not require one to follow a religion*, as long as one is following what he left behind, not what men teach.

Jesus DOES require us to be good Catholics. If one is a good Catholic then by definition, they follow Jesus. And even if a Catholic isn’t a good Catholic, Jesus still made promises to His Church that are NOT going to be taken away. The Catholic Church is the pillar and foundation of truth.
G:

Let me point this out, what good is it to be a Catholic, if one never practices the philosophy of Jesus Christ?

Who said anything different?
G:

What good is it to be a Catholic when one is pursuing earthly things and security in the comfort of one’s own home when there are millions in a state of poverty?

I would qualify that statement by saying one is to take care of their family AND take care of the poor as well. It’s not an either/or proposition
G:

What good is to be a Catholic when one has never offered to reach out for people that are incarcerated? The typical attitude? F… them, they will burn in hell.

In my circle of friends I don’t find that attitude.

I’ve only been to a prison once to pray. It was on the invite of our deacon who has a prison ministry. If that invite didn’t happen I can tell you I would never have put one foot in a prison nor dare I say either would any of the others who went along that day. I haven’t been back since. But during daily mass we pray for the intentions of the incarcerated.
G:

Again what does it mean when the author of this thread says, “Does it matter?” It’s not clear, does it matter in terms of salvation? No religious biases here, only the Lord knows.

In essence, faith(Catholic)=no works then it doesn’t matter if one is Catholic or not, one won’t be good in the eyes of the Lord. :dts:

I would suggest, the question is clear, you have over projected and over read the question

 

[jlhargus]

Actually Benhur, to say that the Lutherans were the first “protestant” church is not totally acurate. While Luther was one the forefront of the reformation, there were already others at work . Luther, and Lutheranism benefited from many governments of the day establishing Lutheranism as the new state religion. Along with the establishment of the Church of England, these two became the primary protestant bastions , but others such as Zwinglii, Calvin , et al were searching scriptures and drawing closer to the actual biblical faith.
Luther was very instrumental, but he was not alone. I feel that the increasing access to scripture was critical to the development of breakaway churches. Sola Scriptura, Sola Fide and access to the Scriptures empowered people to learn the truth.
As to the OP, yes it does matter in as much as one must use biblical discernment to determine if the church you are attending holds to the fullness of the Gospel and the teachings from the epistles. Now before my Catholic bretheren jump on that last sentence, i said the fullness of the Bible, not the fullness of everything created and added by man on top of the Bible.

Do you mean the man made doctrines of OSAS which contradicts scripture, baptism symbolic only, faith alone, bible only authority etc.?

 

[Starwarsfan2]

Do you mean the man made doctrines of OSAS which contradicts scripture, baptism symbolic only, faith alone, bible only authority etc.?

Faith alone is made by the God man Jesus Christ , so yes you could say it’s man made

 

[jlhargus]

Faith alone is made by the God man Jesus Christ , so yes you could say it’s man made

Show me.

[Jms2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? 17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, **being alone.]