Tribute to Joe Biden?

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phil3 said:
With 140,000 green card yearly up for grabs and most if not all will go to India, your tech sector job is up for grabs.
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I don’t think so.

Lab workers have to have a certification (not a license). Mine is ASCP, and there is another certification (I believe it’s CLS, but I’m probably not remembering it correctly, since I don’t have that one). They will not be hired without that, because in order for the lab to be CAP (College of American Pathologists) certified, all the techs (both Bachelors’ Degree and Associates Degree) have to have certification, or be eligible for taking the certification exam (some students delay taking the exam for several months for various reasons, often just nerves!).

I can’t speak for other tech sector jobs. My husband works with Indians (from India) all the time in his tech job; it’s all done online or on the phone. He has no objection. They are very fine to work with. I believe that MOST of his contacts are in India.

So as far as I see, many Indians already ARE working those tech jobs! And as far as I’m concerned, if Americans (born and bred) don’t have any inclination to step up and get the education needed to do those tech/computer-type jobs, then too bad, so sad!

If a company (American or otherwise) has work to be done, and no Americans apply to do that work, then…what are they supposed to do?!

Go out to the local high schools and plead with students (if they can be called that) to please, please put your phones down, turn off the games, curtail your time on social media, and PLEASE with sugar and dancing people, apply yourself to the STEM that all the movie stars and singers and rappers keep plugging, get your butts to the local community college to earn some kind of degree, and in the meantime, find a job in the community, ANY job, so that you will have some work experience and will have a better chance of getting hired by the tech companies!

I doubt that would work. From what I’ve seen, the students wouldn’t pay any attention and wouldn’t even remember that the tech company recruiter hhad made an appearance at their school. Too busy online and looking forward to the good supper that their Mom will serve them that evening at home, where they plan to stay for the rest of their lives. Why work?! It’s too hard, and someone might frighten or disturb them.

Again, I don’t think there are enough Americans willing to work, at least younger Americans. Older ones, yes, and my husband is one of them. But he’s getting to the end of his career (hopefully he will make it through his COVID hospitalization and return to work!). Who will take his place?
 
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Freddy said:
I have no idea how your immigration laws work, so if someone could chip in here and answer this.
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H1B are specifically visas for skilled workers. A company basically has to sign off that they cannot find the skilled workers in the US, it’s a company sponsored thing. A lot of companies abuse this, Disney layed off a bunch of IT folks after bringing in replacements through the H1B program. Again, they said they couldn’t find workers with these skills, yet workers with those skills already worked for them. I would like to see more vetting and penalties for abusing the program, or an additional tax to make the financial incentive to abuse the program less.

There’s a certain number of these allowed, and there were some caps in place to prevent any one country from using a disproportionate number of them. This created some bottlenecks e.g. a large number of visa seekers from India had to wait years where someone from say Ireland would be approved much faster. There were some politics that went into these numbers too, which is a good way for biases to slip in.

I’m open for correction with an actual citation here but it sounds like they lifted the per-country caps. That doesn’t mean they’re letting ‘unlimited h1b visas’ be issued, it just means the arbitrary per-country limits won’t be applied.
 
Dan123 said:
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Freddy:
I have no idea how your immigration laws work, so if someone could chip in here and answer this.
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H1B are specifically visas for skilled workers. A company basically has to sign off that they cannot find the skilled workers in the US, it’s a company sponsored thing. A lot of companies abuse this, Disney layed off a bunch of IT folks after bringing in replacements through the H1B program. Again, they said they couldn’t find workers with these skills, yet workers with those skills already worked for them. I would like to see more vetting and penalties for abusing the program, or an additional tax to make the financial incentive to abuse the program less.
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Pretty much the same here. But as companies couldn’t then hire cheap staff they started sending the work offshore. Which meant that Australians were getting laid off because people in Vietnam and the Phillipines were doing the work at about 1/2 the hourly rate. It happened in the last company I worked for full time before I retired. They set up a shelf company in Manila and thought they were saving money, despite me showing them that the work took at least twice as long and we had to spend time fixing the problems when it came back. When a couple of guys in my section were laid off as a direct result I told the boss what I really thought of the situation and suddenly my position was ‘surplus to requirements’.
Jeanne_S said:
The same system used to apply in America…
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Doesn’t it apply now? Which administration chenged the rules if they have been changed?
 
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To whom is that question asked and to what does it refer? The changes in the system and who made them? I’m not American so I have no idea. I thought you might.
 
phil3 said:
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Freddy:
dearth of tech worker
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We dont have a dearth of tech workers. We have a dearth of tech works that can not work for slave wages
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The reasons why you have too many won’t (or at least shouldn’t) alter the fact that you shouldn’t be giving green cards to those who would take work opportunities away from Americans. According to Dan123 that’s the way the system is meant to work.
 
yes, you can not fool supply and demand. If the government would refuse to allow cheap labor into this country, then companies would have to paid Americans the proper wages. Now those companies dont have to pay them. They now have an unlimited supply of low wage employees.

Supply and demand its a …
 
phil3 said:
yes, you can not fool supply and demand. If the government would refuse to allow cheap labor into this country, then companies would have to paid Americans the proper wages. Now those companies dont have to pay them. They now have an unlimited supply of low wage employees.

Supply and demand its a …
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So who made the decisons that it was fine to let people into the country to do the type of work where Americans were already out of work?
 
Anonkun said:
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Freddy:
So who made the decisons that it was fine to let people into the country to do the type of work where Americans were already out of work?
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Libertarians mostly, and greedy plutocrats
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No, I mean specifically. Who passed the motion? Who signed the bill? Whose idea was it? Who formulated the policy? Who supported it? When did this happen? I don’t want a political slogan - I’d like some details please.
 
I dont know any libertarians in the senate. The full senate passed this bill by voice vote. Every single senator was in favor of it. You know when republicans and democrats agree, the American people are in trouble.
 
Only 140,000 green cards per year.

But those here on this board “that shall not be labeled” are in a dilemma. You have the Pope saying capitalism is bad, but we need to have a more open immigration policy.

So tech companies want to inflate the supply of workers so they get cheap workers. Now the rich are getting richer. The American tech worker is getting poorer. Some how I know those who love francis will find a way for both to be OK.
 
phil3 said:
Only 140,000 green cards per year.
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An h1b visa isn’t a green card, just trying to avoid confusion. The people exploiting the h1b system are the companies who, as you pointed out, want cheap labor. There’s always been underwhelming enforcement of hiring practices by companies unfortunately. Now and then one will be made an example of, but there’s a lot of ways to have plausible deniability. H1B should be easier to enforce, but isn’t for whatever reason.
 
phil3 said:
I dont know any libertarians in the senate. The full senate passed this bill by voice vote. Every single senator was in favor of it. You know when republicans and democrats agree, the American people are in trouble.
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I’m still not getting any details here. What was the bill that allows someone to immigate to the US on the basis of their skills when there are already unemployed Americans with the same skills?

To be honest, I think this claim has been tossed out without any factual basis. If that’s not the case then can someone please supply the details…?
 
phil3 said:
yes, you can not fool supply and demand. If the government would refuse to allow cheap labor into this country, then companies would have to paid Americans the proper wages. Now those companies dont have to pay them. They now have an unlimited supply of low wage employees.

Supply and demand its a …
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Of course they don’t have to pay Americns more, they just have to (and do) send the work offshore …
 
The senate bill sb386. I tuse to be that countries were limited to a percentage of the green card they were to get. so countries like India would get 7% of the allowable green cards. Now india can get all 140,000 green cards.

This has nothing to do with no qualified American citizens, this has to do with hire cheap labor. I have been against the the use of immigrants to inflate the supply of workers. This is nothing more that corporations getting richer of the backs of americans.
 
phil3 said:
The senate bill sb386. I tuse to be that countries were limited to a percentage of the green card they were to get. so countries like India would get 7% of the allowable green cards. Now india can get all 140,000 green cards.

This has nothing to do with no qualified American citizens, this has to do with hire cheap labor. I have been against the the use of immigrants to inflate the supply of workers. This is nothing more that corporations getting richer of the backs of americans.
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It doesn’t really matter which country the immigrants come from - the total is always the same… And it’s been pointed out that the States has similar restrictions on who comes in as other countries do. From the Department of State website:

A Third Preference applicant must have an approved Immigrant Petition for Alien Worker, Form I-140, filed by the prospective employer. All such workers generally require labor certification approved by the Department of Labor

So an employer has to have an approved reason for filing the immigration petition and it has to be certified by the Department of Labour. And that’s just for skilled workers who are the third preference behind those with specific skills that are needed and those with exceptional skills.

Only 40,000 green cards are available within that category and only 10,000 are specifically made available for unskilled workers.

If you asked the man on the street what percentage of the working population unskilled workers made up after being allowed into the country (maybe after reading your comments), I wonder what figure they’d come up with. A couple of percent? Five percent? Maybe more?

It’s actually 0.006% of the working population. So if you live in a town of 50,000 that’s one person who has applied to a company, had the company fill out all the requisite forms, shown cause why they need this person, had the Department of Trade authorise it and then the guy sells up in his own country, cuts all ties with his home and pays whatever it costs to get to the US and set up a home before he pulls his first wage cheque.

Are you seriously concerned with this?
 
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