TRINITY...Is It True ?

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If you believe and accept scripture ( the Bible ) as the word of God, then you have to believe in the existence of the Trinity ( Tri-unity ). Scripture is relpete with reference(s) to the Trinity from Genesis to Revelation. Unless you’re a Jehovahs Witness, who have rewitten the Bible to support their theology, or other cultic, you cannot deny its existence.
Yes, the Trinity is a mystery for the full impact of it has not been revealed by God. Our limited human mind cannot fully understand it. When we meet our maker, then will it all be revealed to us. Untill then we have to accept the existence of the Trinity on faith because God says so. Also, those that deny the Trinity, in effect, are commiting blasphemy.

PAX DOMINI :signofcross:

Shalom Aleichem
 
LilyM said:
England at one time had two monarchs jointly co-ruling the country - King William III and Queen Mary II.

Each of them ‘sat on the throne of England’. Meaning each held the office of monarch. But note the expression remains singular - ‘sit on the throne’ - even when there is more than one monarch. It doesn’t become ‘sit on the thrones’ even when there are two monarchs co-ruling.

And even though there were two monarchs, there was still only ONE throne of England - ONE office of monarch, held jointly by two people.

Put it this way - there’s ONE bench of the US Supreme Court - meaning one OFFICE of Justice of the Supreme Court, even though there are nine judges sitting on the bench and sharing the office.
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A good explanation indeed…http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon14.gif
 
Rumpelstiltskin define your religious background to get an answer close to your belief.
 
Rumpelstiltskin said:
According to the Bible, in the book of Revelation, on judgement day, there will be a throne of God. People who are holy and righteous will worship Him.

NOW…if Trinity is true (3 persons), why is there only 1 throne? And… Who among the 3 will SIT on the throne?

The Bible frequently says that God is ONE. Not three.

Galatians 3:20 A mediator, however, does not represent just one party; but God is ONE.

Deuteronomy 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is ONE.

Mark 12:29 “The most important one,” answered Jesus, "is this: 'Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is ONE.

.
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May I suggest that, if you have not done so before, read through the Anthanasian Creed.
It may or may not answer some of your question, but it is the standard of the catholic (universal) Christian faith regarding the Trinity and the Incarnation since probably the fifth century.

bookofconcord.org/creeds.php#athanasian

Jon
 
Rumpelstiltson,

Where are you coming from? What is your background???
 
Rumpelstiltskin said:
NOW…if Trinity is true (3 persons), why is there only 1 throne? And… Who among the 3 will SIT on the throne?.
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Trinity is true

Revelation 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
 
Rumpelstiltskin said:
And…What’s that picture supposed to mean?

3 separate gods? Or 1 God?

Logic: If all these 3 physically depicted characters is ONE God, then there must be 1 common entity between them.

THE SPIRIT.

It is clear then that Jesus is God because of the divine Spirit in Him, God is God because God is Spirit. The Holy Spirit is God because it is the Spirit from God.

There is no Tri-nity. There is only ONE God.

.
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God is not limited to matter or time,He is Eternal and God can do whatever He chooses. Simply because you cannot comprehend the Trinity,it does not make it false or incorrect.

Let me ask you something,when God says: Let US make man in our image in Gen 1:26 who is the US?

What about Gen 3:22: Behold the man has become like one US,to know good and evil.
 
LilyM said:
You are seriously confused - are you saying people CAN rule jointly (occupy one throne or one bench) because they DON’T have just one will? :confused:

On the contrary, 2 different persons can and do, as co-monarchs, have ONE singular will. Mary and William didn’t make contradictory (or even unilateral) laws, but they DID always make joint ones, signed and enacted in the name of both, reflecting the will of both which was united when they were acting as rulers, even though there were two of them.

A court jury of 12 people, much more often than not, also has but ONE will and hands down ONE unanimous verdict agreed upon by all 12 jurors, making ONE decision that is the decision of all of them.
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You are speaking heresies.

The Bible clearly says that Jesus does the will of the Father…ONLY.

God, Jesus, the Holy Spirit has but ONE Will.

John 10:37 Do not believe me unless I do what my Father does.

John 5:30 By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me.

There is therefore not 3, but 1. Even if I use the plural form to refer, THEY ARE ONE. ONE WILL, ONE GOD.

,
 
Rumpelstiltskin said:
Your assumption is wrong too. The Bible says the lamb of God lays BESIDE the throne.
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Of the people who voted on what books constitute “the Bible” way back in those early centuries, which of them agree with you?

And between the year 400 and 1800, who was teaching that? Anywhere in the world, who was teaching what you are here now saying? If it’s true one would expect an unbroken chain of teachers.

And of the people who learned at the feet of any of the Apostles, which of them agree with you? If what you are saying is true then the Apostles must have taught it to their immediate successors.

Of the people who learned at the feet of any of those people (in other words, the 2nd generation below the Apostles), which of them agree with you? Again, if what you are saying is true, then the students of the Apostles must have passed it on.

Same question for the 3rd generation below the Apostles.
 
Rumpelstiltskin said:
And where do you see 3 thrones ??? :tsktsk:
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Make your own case, it’s your assertion. There certainly is more than a single throne indicated in the Word of God. For instance, there is clear evidence of one at His right hand, as indicted by every passage that was in my link.
 
Rumpelstiltskin said:
…There is no Tri-nity. There is only ONE God.
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Obviously you know little of Hebrew.

Deuteronomy 6:4 clearly says, "4] "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD; "

The Hebrew for “one” there is “echad”.

Which is the very same word used in Genesis 1:24 which says, “24] Therefore a man leaves his father and his mother and cleaves to his wife, and they become one flesh.”

Now, although this does not prove a Trinity, it certainly proves a unity and plurality which proves your anti-trinitarian belief to be in error.

Furthermore, two verses later, in Genesis 1:26 we find this said of the creation of man.
"26] Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness; and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps upon the earth.”

So here again we find the plurality of Divinity which proves your revival of the Arian heresy dead wrong.

Then we come to the very beginning of St. John’s gospel, which clearly says,
John 1:1] In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2] He was in the beginning with God;
3] all things were made through him, and without him was not anything made that was made.

Here again we see a clear inference to the Trinity in the obvious plurality St. John speaks of.

Finally, we see Our Lord Himself teaching the Trinity in the following passage because if the Holy Spirit were not divine, then blasphemy against Him would not be a sin, much less an unforgivable one.

Matthew 12:22-31
22 Then was offered to him one possessed with a devil, blind and dumb: and he healed him, so that he spoke and saw.
23 And all the multitudes were amazed, and said: Is not this the son of David?
24 But the Pharisees hearing it, said: This man casteth not out the devils but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils.
25 And Jesus knowing their thoughts, said to them: Every kingdom divided against itself shall be made desolate: and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand.http://www.veritasbible.com/resources/sacred_scripture_shortcuts/categories/Church/Church+is+One
26 And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself: how then shall his kingdom stand?
27 And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast them out? Therefore they shall be your judges.
28 But if I by the Spirit of God cast out devils, then is the kingdom of God come upon you.
29 Or how can any one enter into the house of the strong, and rifle his goods, unless he first bind the strong? and then he will rifle his house.
30 He that is not with me, is against me: and he that gathereth not with me, scattereth.
31 Therefore I say to you: Every sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven men, but the blasphemy of the Spirit shall not be forgiven.
32 And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but he that shall speak against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, nor in the world to come.
 
Rumplestiltskin:

How about answering the questions asked of you? Or, do you realize you are wrong?

PAX DOMINI :signofcross:

Shalom Aleichem
 
Church_Militant said:
Obviously you know little of Hebrew.

Deuteronomy 6:4 clearly says, "4] "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD; "

The Hebrew for “one” there is “echad”.

Which is the very same word used in Genesis 1:24 which says, “24] Therefore a man leaves his father and his mother and cleaves to his wife, and they become one flesh.”

Now, although this does not prove a Trinity, it certainly proves a unity and plurality which proves your anti-trinitarian belief to be in error.

Furthermore, two verses later, in Genesis 1:26 we find this said of the creation of man.
"26] Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness; and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps upon the earth.”

So here again we find the plurality of Divinity which proves your revival of the Arian heresy dead wrong.

Then we come to the very beginning of St. John’s gospel, which clearly says,
John 1:1] In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2] He was in the beginning with God;
3] all things were made through him, and without him was not anything made that was made.

Here again we see a clear inference to the Trinity in the obvious plurality St. John speaks of.

Finally, we see Our Lord Himself teaching the Trinity in the following passage because if the Holy Spirit were not divine, then blasphemy against Him would not be a sin, much less an unforgivable one.

Matthew 12:22-31
22 Then was offered to him one possessed with a devil, blind and dumb: and he healed him, so that he spoke and saw.
23 And all the multitudes were amazed, and said: Is not this the son of David?
24 But the Pharisees hearing it, said: This man casteth not out the devils but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils.
25 And Jesus knowing their thoughts, said to them: Every kingdom divided against itself shall be made desolate: and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand.http://www.veritasbible.com/resources/sacred_scripture_shortcuts/categories/Church/Church+is+One
26 And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself: how then shall his kingdom stand?
27 And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast them out? Therefore they shall be your judges.
28 But if I by the Spirit of God cast out devils, then is the kingdom of God come upon you.
29 Or how can any one enter into the house of the strong, and rifle his goods, unless he first bind the strong? and then he will rifle his house.
30 He that is not with me, is against me: and he that gathereth not with me, scattereth.
31 Therefore I say to you: Every sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven men, but the blasphemy of the Spirit shall not be forgiven.
32 And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but he that shall speak against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, nor in the world to come.
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There’s no denial, that there’s God, there’s Jesus and there’s the Holy Spirit. The only contention is whether they are one and the same. And my answer is YES.

There is not 3 persons…But 1.

You have quoted many verse but not managed to quote me a bible verse to show why the Bible is wrong where it says “Hear Oh Israel, The Lord Your God IS ONE”.

NOTE: The problem is this - God is ONE is clearly mentioned in the Bible. But Trinity is not (its just a theological assumption). Whether yours is a plural one or singular one is not the point. The point is, Jesus & God and the Holy Ghost has the SAME WILL. And that also mean God is ONE. And that’s all there is to it. Anything more would be an extension of what God has not spoken.

.
 
Rumpelstiltskin said:
There’s no denial, that there’s God, there’s Jesus and there’s the Holy Spirit. The only contention is whether they are one and the same. And my answer is YES.

There is not 3 persons…But 1.

You have quoted many verse but not managed to quote me a bible verse to show why the Bible is wrong where it says “Hear Oh Israel, The Lord Your God IS ONE”.

NOTE: The problem is this - God is ONE is clearly mentioned in the Bible. But Trinity is not (its just a theological assumption). Whether yours is a plural one or singular one is not the point. The point is, Jesus & God and the Holy Ghost has the SAME WILL. And that also mean God is ONE. And that’s all there is to it. Anything more would be an extension of what God has not spoken.

.
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John 1:1 “In the beginning was the Word. And the Word was WITH God. And the Word was God.” So, the Word was with God, which implies 2 persons. Why would John say “with God”, otherwise? Does anyone talk about being “with” themself?

John 14:26 "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you."

So, Jesus says that the Holy Spirit (1) will be sent by the Father (2) in His (Jesus’)
name (3).

1 God - 3 persons. Creator, redeemer, comforter/sanctifier.

Jon
 
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