Trump’s New Wall to Keep Out the Disabled

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Metis1 said:
why not deal with the main cause, namely poverty and corruption in the three Latin American countries,
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It will take a while … and we would need to undertake unpopular anti-corruption measures and expand capitalism.

www.capitalismmagazine.com

Capitalism Brings Prosperity To All by Jaana Woiceshyn | Capitalism Magazine

Long-term wealth can only be created by earning it: by trading value for value for win-win outcomes.
www.capitalismmagazine.com www.capitalismmagazine.com

… mere observation confirms that people are economically better off than they were, say, 40 years ago. This is partly due to higher incomes today and partly due to the lower relative prices of many goods and services, thanks to freer markets in many parts of the world and a more global trade today. No, poverty has not been eliminated because we don’t have capitalism—which is the only system to eliminate poverty—but economic well-being has increased proportionally with economic freedom.

Observe many of the Asian countries as examples.

Even the Chinese have prospered, as the communist government there has increased economic, if not political, freedom.

Closer to home, we can observe low-income families being able to afford many of the technology and other products that previously were within the reach of only the wealthy: TVs, cell phones, laptop computers, cars, better quality and/or quantity of clothes and food.
 
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Metis1 said:
Instead of expanding this wall at many billions of dollars, why not deal with the main cause, namely poverty and corruption in the three Latin American countries, whereas we could help out the people by trying to help them build enterprise zones even if it goes against what the leadership wants.
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A very good question. I would ask another – why is not something like the Marshall Plan in our best interests when it comes to our policy towards South and Central American?
 
Metis1 . . .
Ya, and I supposed the gospel has it and quotes Jesus saying “Bring the children unto me so we can take them away from their parents and put them into cages".
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Good grief what a straw-man deflection.

Ya, and I supposed the gospel has it and quotes Jesus saying “Bring the children unto the rapists who pretend they are the parents or in some cases ARE the parents themselves without the border patrol sorting it out first."
 
You might have a good point, but I’m not certain of it. The Marshall Plan invested money into keeping people in western Europe alive and into rebuilding infrastructure. But they were very sophisticated and well-educated people, who could take it from there and did. And furthermore, a lot of the infrastructure was badly damaged, but still there, like sewers, power lines, dams, rail lines, highways, canals, mines.

I’m not sure Central America is the same kind of case. Nor do I know whether, over the years, the U.S. might have donated just as much on a per capita basis as it did under the Marshall Plan. Would we have to take over a country for a few decades and set to running properly? Would that work? The Philippines suggest it may not be so.

The more I pay attention to how a country develops, the more it seems to me the foundations of prosperity need to be internally generated.
 
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Inisfallen said:
I would ask another – why is not something like the Marshall Plan in our best interests when it comes to our policy towards South and Central American?
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I agree since the Marshall Plan generated many jobs in this country and allies abroad.

Anyhow, you brought up a good point.
 
Cathoholic said:
Good grief what a straw-man deflection.
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Ya, such a “straw-man” that the bishops condemned these actions.

The rest of your truly pathetic post is that it is simply an attempt at deflection since we have no control over what may happen in other countries as refugees try to get here. The fact that these refugees are so desperate so as to take such chances should tell even the most calloused person something. Again, Jesus saying “Bring the little children unto me…” should be a wake up call, but it’s too bad you ignore it and make excuses so as to believe in Trump.
 
Ridgerunner said:
The Marshall Plan invested money into keeping people in western Europe alive and into rebuilding infrastructure. But they were very sophisticated and well-educated people, who could take it from there and did.
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So your supposition is people in Central and South America are too unsophisticated and poorly-educated to run their own affairs? Interesting.
 
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Metis1 . . .
Ya, such a “straw-man” that the bishops condemned these actions.
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The Bishops have condemned sex trafficking.
The Bishops have condemned defrauding the wage earner.
The Bishops have condemned child rape.

The border people MUST be cautious who they give these (often unaccompanied and sometimes FALSELY “accompanied”) minors over to.

Your stating only a PORTION of the problem and attacking your straw-man is not persuasive.

You are wrong.

.

Metis1 . . .
The rest of your truly pathetic post . . .
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Good grief.

.

Metis1 . . .
deflection since we have no control over what may happen in other countries . . .
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The above is the fallacy of equivocation by you.

Potentially turning over children to the “dad” who is NOT the “dad” but a child sex trafficker who is masquerading as “dad” . . .
. . . IS in the USA . . .
. . . assuming they have been apprehended.

(Your argument also ignores your ideas incentivizing this illegal and exceedingly risky behavior
by promoting these unlawful and dangerous actions and
ignores Government influence on foreign policy for other nations.

Lots of self-imposed blindness by embracing such ideas as you have imbibed and re-presented here.

These are not good ideas you are presenting here Metis1.)

.
Bring the little children unto me…” should be a wake up call, but it’s too bad you ignore it and make excuses so as to believe in Trump.
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It is the other way around Metis1.
 
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Being Latin American I can see the point that was being made. So can my husband. He is from Mexico and says very similar things all the time.

Corruption is WAY too deep and it destroys anything good that attempts to grow.
 
It is exactly because they are not that their country’s development should be internally generated. There was a time in the U.S. when educational levels were inferior to those of Central America. U.S. development was driven by largely internally developed capital and practical investment thereof in most of the country. In some of the countries of the third world, the economy more closely resembles that of the antebellum Deep South, where agri-monocultures owned by a handful of very wealthy people only generated export of capital and showy aristocracies domestically.
 
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Ridgerunner said:
In some of the countries of the third world, the economy more closely resembles that of the antebellum Deep South, where agri-monocultures owned by a handful of very wealthy people only generated export of capital and showy aristocracies domestically.
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Yeah, this is the case in much of Latin America because the United States considered those countries too unsophisticated and poorly-educated to handle their own affairs (or, you know, used that obviously false premise to justify brutal military and economic interference. See all the pro-Apartheid arguments that black South Africans were similarly unable to handle their own affairs).
 
Blaming the U.S. for the actions of others is in fashion for fewer and fewer people. On whom do you blame the antebellum conditions in the deep south that were very similar to what we find in a lot of third world countries today? Do you blame the U.S. for conditions in the Carribbean and Latin America that were in place long before there was a United States?

But I also find a certain irony in the argument that other peoples are not capable of mishandling their own affairs as well as handling them, and that it requires a first world actor to cause both.
 
It is no surprise that you would so support Trump and excuse pretty much anything and everything he says and does, so I’ll just leave it at that. It’s well established what the Church has said through the Pope and his bishops, so no amount of song & dance on your part can excuse the all too many of the utterly depraved words and actions by this president and of the staff that has blindly supported him and now find themselves in all sorts of legal jeopardy.

If you think I’m wrong, maybe go ask a priest and ask just how moral the priest thinks Trump is based on Catholic social teachings. As one who took classes in Catholic moral theology decades ago, I’m gonna tell you right now there simply is no way that Trump can come off as acting morally, and with so many of his current and former staff and supporters being indicted and taking pleas deals on felonies, the chickens seem to be coming home to roost.

Goodbye.
 
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Even though overall I prefer capitalism over any other kind of economic system, it is not a cure-all, especially for countries with low resources and relatively low levels of education. What tends to happen in these cases is that you end up getting the “banana republic” effect, namely a small wealthy class and a large low-income class with relatively little in-between. Politically, this also becomes conducive to high crime rates and corrupt government.

What are needed is not more investment money poured in by multinational corporations, but instead through enterprise zones based on communal ownership and cooperation. If the citizenry has a chance to improve their lot and are given encouragement and some funds to do so, they can indeed do much better.

People who have investments in their future and the future of their children will work hard given the opportunity. Therefore, the idea that all we have to do is to encourage more capitalism will tend to only make these situations worse.
 
Metis1 said:
especially for countries with low resources and relatively low levels of education.
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you can’t be talking about Central and South America. They have vast natural resources.
Metis1 said:
If the citizenry has a chance to improve their lot and are given encouragement and some funds to do so, they can indeed do much better.
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well sure, this works if your government isn’t corrupt and your government officials aren’t demanding bribes. Nothing will change in Central and South America until the corruption is removed from government and no one will invest money in a country where their investment can be ‘nationalized’.
 
Metis1 . . . .
It is no surprise that you would so support Trump and excuse pretty much anything and everything he says and does, so I’ll just leave it at that.
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You can leave it “at that”.

But I am not.

De-incentivizing illegal immigration has virtually nothing to do “Trump”.

I and many others have long approached this issue in this way.

Long before “Trump”.

Actually I think it is the other way around.

I think it is you who are supporting a political situation first and foremost.

Not me with “Trump”.

As far as asking priests and bishops, they do not support incentivizing child rape, adult rape, human trafficking, defrauding the wage earner, etc.

I think it is you who seem to “excuse pretty much anything and everything” here. Not me as you attempt to do.
If you think I’m wrong, maybe go ask a priest . . .
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I KNOW you are wrong.

You have SOME elements of truth, some of falsehood, and a whole lot of
ignoring stark truths that actually HURT migrants
as well as Americans.

“Pleas (sic) deals on felonies” and other process crimes are irrelevant in this discussion. At least if this discussion is how best to approach the immigrant and illegal alien (notice they are not the same thing by the way) situations.

The other thing you have wrong (by ignoring) is the
willful facilitation of premeditated murder of the migrants,
at least in their pre-born stage. (I have never seen you bring that issue up once. Not once here [that I can recall]).


One migrant injured, the other dead. All under the phony pretext of “helping migrants”.

.

This (once again) from the Huffington Post as well . . . .

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/09/12/central-america-migrants-rape_n_5806972.html
 
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Please reread what I posted as my information comes from my familiarity of the region plus from a priest that I know who lives there. As an anthropologist, I’ve studied that region for decades now, plus I was involved with both the United Farm Workers and Bread For the World for a couple of decades.

Other than food production, there’s few economic resources to be found in Honduras, El Salvador, and Nicaragua. The priest I know lived in El Salvador, although I have had no contact with him for about two decades now.

What has been happening there over the last century is not too terribly unusual since it also have been happening in many other countries, and another country that I familiar with that suffers from much of the same problem is the Philippines, where my father lived for a couple of years.

The issue of corrupt government is symptomatic of the problem, not the cause of the problem. It would take me a long time to spell this out in detail because there’s an entanglement of factors that are involved, and one large factor is the purchase of land by multinationals, or wealthy plantation owners that cater to the multinationals for economic reasons, that in the long run leaves much of the country in poverty.

If you’re interested, I will have more time on Monday (I hope) whereas I can go through this.

Take care.
 
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