Trump campaigned against Muslims, but will preach tolerance in Saudi speech

[PRmerger]

I’ve read it but am surprised you have as you don’t seem to have adequate knowledge of what mortal sin is and is not or you just don’t understand it.

Regardless, if someone does something they do not think is a sin, it is not a mortal sin. That is full knowledge that is required. Most of this country has accepted that abortion, divorce, remarriage, gay marriage etc., is not wrong. If they think it isn’t a sin, then it cannot be a mortal sin.

Just because the Catholic Church plainly states something is a sin, that doesn’t mean that people that are not Catholic or think the Catholic Church is teaching it wrong, are required to believe the same thing. If they don’t have full knowledge, it is not a mortal sin.

If a mortal sin requires you to have full knowledge, what if you don’t have full knowledge? Is it a mortal sin? How can it be if it doesn’t have one of the requirements that is taught by the Catholic Church? You’re not arguing with me. You’re arguing with the Church. Just because you read, certainly doesn’t mean you totally understood it and this proves it.

Donald Trump is objectively an adulterer.

As is Steve Bannon. A Catholic

How much he is culpable is between him and God.

So is he in mortal sin? I dunno.

Is he an adulterer? Yes, yes he is.

And it’s astonishing to hear Catholics overlook this.

Astonishing, appalling and diabolical.

 

[gnjsdad]

My guess is that Trump will not utter the incoherent phrase “radical Islamic terrorism” tomorrow.

 

[PRmerger]

The way to not get appalled by other people’s character is to realize our own lack. Just saying.

Do you apply that to yourself and your view of Hillary?

I’m guessing…not so much.

You permit yourself the right to be oh-so-greatly appalled. And to Bill as well.

I don’t think it’s a good idea to permit in yourself what you object to in others.

 

[PRmerger]

Yes God can even use Hillary, but she didn’t get picked. So I say let Trump give it a go. Don’t get bogged down by his past. Everyone has their own skeletons in the closet.

I am evaluating all of it: past, present and future.

And none of it is good.

 

[queenofheartscv]

Do you apply that to yourself and your view of Hillary?

I’m guessing…not so much.

You permit yourself the right to be oh-so-greatly appalled. And to Bill as well.

I don’t think it’s a good idea to permit in yourself what you object to in others.

Ok. You look at divorce as obejective adultery and something like a most heinous sin that will lead to sure perdition. You also expect others to be exactly as you would desire, to live up to a logical moral standard that is beyond reproach. You demand that from trump, from me and from others on the forum. All that is your right, but I’ve lived through that and it’s a lonely and proud path. I’ve learned the hard lesson that it’a not a good idea to focus on someone’s failings, no matter how appalling you think it is. My rejection of Hillary is based on her policies and her ideas.

 

[PRmerger]

Ok. You look at divorce as obejective adultery and something like a most heinous sin that will lead to sure perdition.

Emmm…no, queen. Divorce is not objective adultery.

The Catholic Church is not against divorce, objectively.

It’s divorce and re-marriage.

Sheesh.

You also expect others to be exactly as you would desire, to live up to a logical moral standard that is beyond reproach.

Are you talking about Hillary here?

And what you expected her to be?

I’ve learned the hard lesson that it’a not a good idea to focus on someone’s failings, no matter how appalling you think it is. My rejection of Hillary is based on her policies and her ideas.

LOL!

 

[Sy_Noe]

I’m not sure that a majority of Catholics are voting against the democrat party.

In last year’s election it depended on race. According to Pew Research, the majority of Catholics voted for Trump 52% to 45%. But that was because he carried the Catholic white vote 60% to 37%. Latino Catholics however went heavily against Trump with the Democratic Party’s candidate winning their vote 67% to 26%.

pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/11/09/how-the-faithful-voted-a-preliminary-2016-analysis/

 

[St_Pancake]

Just so we are clear to the lurkers who may be scandalized by the above:
Mercy Killings are the same as Murder.

We are not permitted to kill someone’s baby just because we think it’s in their best interest.

And even if we don’t think it’s wrong, it’s WRONG.

To hear a person declare that something isn’t wrong if he doesn’t believe it’s wrong is just diabolical.

I’m just not sure your comprehension is capable of understanding the subject.

Did the hospital conclude an investigation that cleared the nurse in question?

Has the police investigation concluded? (hint: it hasn’t really started)

Read the article

There is no reason to conclude she is a killer. Please read your article because there is not enough information in there to conclude she is a killer.

If she did kill the baby it would be wrong but unless she knew it was wrong but it wouldn’t be a mortal sin according to the CCC. No matter what you think or how wrong something is, it is not a mortal sin without full knowledge.

 

[St_Pancake]

Character used to matter to Catholics. Sadly, now it doesn’t matter one whit, and I am appalled by that.

I guess you didn’t vote the last election.

 

[PRmerger]

I’m just not sure your comprehension is capable of understanding the subject.

Did the hospital conclude an investigation that cleared the nurse in question?

Has the police investigation concluded? (hint: it hasn’t really started)

Read the article

There is no reason to conclude she is a killer. Please read your article because there is not enough information in there to conclude she is a killer.

Let’s not get caught up in the particulars.

I think what you need to acknowledge is that someone can think she’s doing something perfectly fine but actually be doing something morally reprehensible–like, perhaps, killing a premature baby because she thinks he will be disabled for the rest of his life.

So even if she thinks she’s right (and even if she’s not Catholic BTW), this nurse would be doing something morally repugnant.

I think you know this to be true.

And it would be nice to hear you say this, but if you’re not willing to say this, I think the lurkers here will be able to see the writing on the wall…

And whether she’s in mortal sin or not is between her and God…

but it remains…WRONG what she did.

(We are speaking hypothetically, so the details are irrelevant)

 

[St_Pancake]

Donald Trump is objectively an adulterer.

As is Steve Bannon. A Catholic

How much he is culpable is between him and God.

So is he in mortal sin? I dunno.

Is he an adulterer? Yes, yes he is.

And it’s astonishing to hear Catholics overlook this.

Astonishing, appalling and diabolical.

There were two viable choices. If I had to vote, it would not be for a candidate of the party of death. The baby killers will not get my vote.

Astonishing, appalling, diabolical but so much better than Hillary.

BTW, I didn’t vote for either.

 

[PRmerger]

Let’s not get caught up in the particulars.

I think what you need to acknowledge is that someone can think she’s doing something perfectly fine but actually be doing something morally reprehensible–like, perhaps, killing a premature baby because she thinks he will be disabled for the rest of his life.

So even if she thinks she’s right (and even if she’s not Catholic BTW), this nurse would be doing something morally repugnant.

I think you know this to be true.

And it would be nice to hear you say this, but if you’re not willing to say this, I think the lurkers here will be able to see the writing on the wall…

And whether she’s in mortal sin or not is between her and God…

but it remains…WRONG what she did.

(We are speaking hypothetically, so the details are irrelevant)

And once we’ve gotten an admission* that someone can be doing something MORALLY REPREHENSIBLE, even if she DOESN’T THINK IT"S MORALLY WRONG…we can apply that to Trump and his adultery.

Jesus’ words apply to all of us, not just Catholics.

(I’ve found the “Well, he’s not Catholic so…” to be one of the weirdest defenses of Trump’s adultery ever.)

*and even if there is no admission forthcoming…at least the lurkers will see.

QED

All readers here should know, esp those who aren’t Catholic, that Catholic moral teaching states that adultery is always wrong, EVEN IF THE PERSON THINKS IT’S PERFECTLY FINE TO CHEAT ON HIS WIFE.

And even if the person isn’t Catholic.

No one gets to be divorced and then re-marry

(Without getting into Pauline and Petrine privileges, which, clearly, don’t apply to Trump)

 

[St_Pancake]

In fact, this softer posture “on the Mulim ban” was adopted when he was POTUS, and tasked people to craft a ban that might pass judicial review. Druing the campaign he called for a total and complete ban on Muslim immigration.

No, he never called for a total and complete ban. It was always temporary.

 

[St_Pancake]

Grace beat me to it:

Yep, they gave it to him for saying HOPE! and CHANGE!

I’m sincerely shocked that there was so much world violence in the world during his terms. I guess they didn’t get the Hopey - Changey memo in certain parts of the world.

 

[7_Sorrows]

Yes God can even use Hillary, but she didn’t get picked. So I say let Trump give it a go. Don’t get bogged down by his past. Everyone has their own skeletons in the closet.

+1

 

[dvdjs]

No, he never called for a total and complete ban. It was always temporary.

The words total and complete are his. See post #33.
Yes, it was “until…” . That might be temporary, it might be forever. That is unkown. But total and complete - that is known.

 

[St_Pancake]

Let’s not get caught up in the particulars.

I think what you need to acknowledge is that someone can think she’s doing something perfectly fine but actually be doing something morally reprehensible–like, perhaps, killing a premature baby because she thinks he will be disabled for the rest of his life.

So even if she thinks she’s right (and even if she’s not Catholic BTW), this nurse would be doing something morally repugnant.

I think you know this to be true.

And it would be nice to hear you say this, but if you’re not willing to say this, I think the lurkers here will be able to see the writing on the wall…

And whether she’s in mortal sin or not is between her and God…

but it remains…WRONG what she did.

(We are speaking hypothetically, so the details are irrelevant)

If you have a pill, please take it. All I did was point out that it is very possible for those of different religions to do horrible things and, if they didn’t believe they were wrong, it was not a mortal sin.

You lost your mind and said that according to me, it was okay to be a pornographer, murderer, because I said it was okay. All I was doing was point out a well established teaching of the Catholic Church that full knowledge was required for it to be a mortal sin. Then you went bouncing off the wall over this. Please go back and look at your posts and mine. Just because it isn’t a mortal sin, that doesn’t make it right or not a sin. I never said that. I think something in your mind made you think I said that but I did not. I said that a mortal sin required full knowledge.

You have to know it is a sin for it to be a mortal sin. Again, that isn’t something I made up. I quoted the Catechism of the Catholic Church which is very clear on the matter. A lot of people in this country have come to believe that killing a baby by abortion is okay. It isn’t, it is murder. But, if one of those with insufficient knowledge (they don’t believe abortion is wrong) has an abortion or participates, it is not a mortal sin. Somehow in your way of, um reasoning, by sharing the teachings of the church, I have condone heinous activities. Furthermore, even thought the Pope and the Bishops and the Priests of the Catholic Church teach the same, they are not condoning the same heinous activities. You may want to be more careful of the accusations you make against the Church, her Pope, Bishops and Priests.

 

[7_Sorrows]

Donald Trump is objectively an adulterer.

As is Steve Bannon. A Catholic

How much he is culpable is between him and God.

So is he in mortal sin? I dunno.

Is he an adulterer? Yes, yes he is.

And it’s astonishing to hear Catholics overlook this.

Astonishing, appalling and diabolical.

I think it is more appalling to ignore Hillary’s stand on late term abortion.
I think Newt Gingrich has had multiple marriages and his current wife will be our Ambassador to the Vatican.
Trump has not abandoned the children from those marriages. He has assumed parental responsibilities.
This seems off topic to the title of the thread anyway.

 

[St_Pancake]

And once we’ve gotten an admission* that someone can be doing something MORALLY REPREHENSIBLE, even if she DOESN’T THINK IT"S MORALLY WRONG…we can apply that to Trump and his adultery.

Jesus’ words apply to all of us, not just Catholics.

(I’ve found the “Well, he’s not Catholic so…” to be one of the weirdest defenses of Trump’s adultery ever.)

*and even if there is no admission forthcoming…at least the lurkers will see.

QED

All readers here should know, esp those who aren’t Catholic, that Catholic moral teaching states that adultery is always wrong, EVEN IF THE PERSON THINKS IT’S PERFECTLY FINE TO CHEAT ON HIS WIFE.

And even if the person isn’t Catholic.

No one gets to be divorced and then re-marry

(Without getting into Pauline and Petrine privileges, which, clearly, don’t apply to Trump)

Oh great, you’re replying to yourself.

You either have the comprehension of a second grader or you are pretending to be confused to let that further your argument.

I didn’t vote in the last election, if I had, it would have been Trump and not the party of baby killers. Trump isn’t perfect, neither am I. He’s done things I would hope I wouldn’t but he is still better than Hillary. She is worse, so much so, that democrats didn’t vote for her and that is why Trump is president.

I don’t know if Hillary has committed adultery or not. It has been reported that her husband had raped someone and that Hillary helped discredit the woman and cover it up. I don’t know.

While large parts of Trumps life may be out in the open, that doesn’t mean he has been better or worse than anyone, it means that more is known about him. I’m not privy to his spiritual life and for all I know, he has repented of those issues. He might well not have. I don’t really care.

As I said, I didn’t vote for Trump or Clinton. If you’re looking for someone to blame, it is the democrats fault. It was the democrats in several states that voted for Obama in 2012 but could not bring themselves to vote for Clinton in 2016. It’s the party’s fault for nominating the candidate or the voters that voted for her. Where did your vote go? Are you with the baby killers?

 

[dvdjs]

That is not how that came across at all.
My point was I’m a trump supporter and in a state of grace.

Nothing about that should “take you aback”

Sorry. But to my ears, hearing someone talk of partaking of the Mysteries to make a point about most anything other than thanksgiving for grace unmerited is startling.