Trump driving migrant debate among GOP field

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Thank you Charles Krauthammer!!!
Last Sunday, Trump told NBC’s Chuck Todd that all illegal immigrants must leave the country. Although once they’ve been kicked out, we will let “the good ones” back in. On its own terms, this is crackpot. Wouldn’t you save a lot just on Mayflower moving costs if you chose the “good ones” first — before sending SWAT teams to turf families out of their homes, loading them on buses, and dumping them on the other side of the Rio Grande?
Less frivolously, it is estimated by the conservative American Action Forum that mass deportation would take about 20 years and cost about $500 billion for all the police, judges, lawyers, and enforcement agents — and bus drivers! — needed to expel 11 million people. This would all be merely ridiculous if it weren’t morally obscene. Forcibly evict 11 million people from their homes? It can’t happen. It shouldn’t happen. And, of course, it won’t ever happen. But because it’s the view of the Republican front-runner, every other candidate is now required to react. So instead of debating border security, guest-worker programs, and sanctuary cities — where Republicans are on firm moral and political ground — they are forced into a debate about a repulsive fantasy.
Donald Trump has every right to advance his ideas. He is not to be begrudged his masterly showmanship, his relentless candor, or his polling success. I strongly oppose the idea of ostracizing anyone from the GOP or the conservative movement. On whose authority? Let the people decide.
But that is not to say that he should be exempt from normal scrutiny or from consideration of the effect of his candidacy on conservatism’s future. If you are a conservative alarmed at the country’s direction and committed to retaking the White House, you should be concerned about what Trump’s ascendancy is doing to the chances of that happening.
Read more at: nationalreview.com/article/422864/donald-trump-deportation-republicans

:whistle:
 
Per the statements, “neither party is noble”

:dts::yeah_me:

To actually trying to equate this evil as applying to both parties is somewhat repugnant, one side passes legislation…

It would be no exaggeration to say the Pro Life Movement in Texas and other places, Oklahoma with the aid of legislation, ULTRA SOUND BILLS,

HAS SAVED LIFE,

To say things to diminish this fight I find is a largely repugnant evaluation especially when the Democratic Party fights tooth and nail against any Pro-Life measures.

It’s a rather ridiculous position and really lines up with the pro-choice side to say different.
 
Per the statements, “neither party is noble”

:dts::yeah_me:

To actually trying to equate this evil as applying to both parties is somewhat repugnant, one side passes legislation…

It would be no exaggeration to say the Pro Life Movement in Texas and other places, Oklahoma with the aid of legislation, ULTRA SOUND BILLS,

HAS SAVED LIFE,

To say things to diminish this fight I find is a largely repugnant evaluation especially when the Democratic Party fights tooth and nail against any Pro-Life measures.

It’s a rather ridiculous position and really lines up with the pro-choice side to say different.
Oh My Goodness.

I am not pro-choice. And I resent any suggestion that I am.

BUT, MR Trump has been pro-life (sort of) for about 4 years. (how much so? Whatever is convenient for campaigning)

Abortion is a bigger issue than illegal immigration.

And illegal immigration can be addressed in ways that are more in line with our Catholic Faith than those put forth by Trump.
 
Oh My Goodness.

I am not pro-choice. And I resent any suggestion that I am.

BUT, MR Trump has been pro-life (sort of) for about 4 years. (how much so? Whatever is convenient for campaigning)

Abortion is a bigger issue than illegal immigration.

And illegal immigration can be addressed in ways that are more in line with our Catholic Faith than those put forth by Trump.
I resent comparing a party to another when one is fighting tooth and nail against abortion and has provided positive measures and comparing them to a very pro-abortion party.

We have seen in California how legislature has been introduced for “home abortions”, the state is in ways, 1 party. Also, when these planned parenthood videos came out, some of their top lawmakers had the audacity to talk about prosecuting the video makers instead of finding error with its contents.

Really, it is to be pro-life to have a watchful eye on illegal immigration, we can have this go on forever about who should be allowed, every one should be, not everyone can. Unskilled laborers who can not speak the language and giving them the right to vote doesn’t sound like the pinnacle of the American dream.

Again, should Italy be left to have Islam as the majority religion through totally free immigration? I don’t think so and an emotional appeal to house all of those forlorn in the world can be made for there as well.

Charities do a lot for the poor along with our allowing many immigrants as well, if you speak of those you know, then perhaps the objective of US immigration policy should be to help out those in the poorest of countries, Haiti, Laos and so on.
 
Oh My Goodness.

I am not pro-choice. And I resent any suggestion that I am.

BUT, MR Trump has been pro-life (sort of) for about 4 years. (how much so? Whatever is convenient for campaigning)

Abortion is a bigger issue than illegal immigration.

And illegal immigration can be addressed in ways that are more in line with our Catholic Faith than those put forth by Trump.
Worthy thoughts, but not practical in politics. I am not saying that Trump is pro-life or pro-abortion. I can only go by what he says now. However, should (should being the operative word) Trump be the GOP nominee, which I still doubt, you can either vote for him or vote for a Dem who we know has abortion at any time in gestation in the party platform, or some other candidate who hopes to upset the apple cart by going third party. Sometimes you have to take part of what you want when all of what you want is not possible.
 
Trump may have been pro-life privately, I don’t fault him greatly, it is hard for New Yorkers in that area to be such, Giuliani, Judge Jeannine and others.

This is why Governor Chris Cristie’s achievements are so great really, he is in a pro-choice hotbed and he has acted for the right to life, defunded Planned Parenthood.

What won’t bother me, is someone who might horrendously equate the two sides per the abortion issue, defend the DNC’s record and now, say, Oh, this Trump hasn’t the best record on this.

If one has been pro-life for years, then such criticism may be merited, that is the view I hold somewhat myself as well.
 
Trump may have been pro-life privately, I don’t fault him greatly, it is hard for New Yorkers in that area to be such, Giuliani, Judge Jeannine and others.

This is why Governor Chris Cristie’s achievements are so great really, he is in a pro-choice hotbed and he has acted for the right to life, defunded Planned Parenthood.

What won’t bother me, is someone who might horrendously equate the two sides per the abortion issue, defend the DNC’s record and now, say, Oh, this Trump hasn’t the best record on this.

If one has been pro-life for years, then such criticism may be merited, that is the view I hold somewhat myself as well.
To me, this sounds like a great argument to nominate Christie rather than Trump.
 
I agree with a lot of your points, and it’s wonderful that you sponsored a family. However, re black youths that are unemployed, I’ve never heard or seen a study with reasons why. Yes, immigration could play a role, but are some of these youths high school drop outs, or do some of them have that attitude that’s very common among people today, that the pay isn’t high enough and they’re entitled to a better job then frying hamburgers, janitorial work, cleaning homes and toilets or even picking crops! I heard the other day that some farmers are paying $17 an hour for crops to be picked, but no Americans want to do it!

I think part if the problem is with the culture nowadays. Children are passed from one grade to another when they can’t read. Grades are inflated so a C student will get an A or B and failing students say the teacher doesn’t understand or they blame it on their poverty. Then when they get to the workplace, they aren’t coddled and either are fired or quit.

Maybe the immigrants don’t expect much and are hungry for any job, no matter how menial. Immigration laws do need to change, but deportation among people who aren’t criminals can’t happen, and as much as I like Trump, he has to know that.
 
I agree with a lot of your points, and it’s wonderful that you sponsored a family. However, re black youths that are unemployed, I’ve never heard or seen a study with reasons why. Yes, immigration could play a role, but are some of these youths high school drop outs, or do some of them have that attitude that’s very common among people today, that the pay isn’t high enough and they’re entitled to a better job then frying hamburgers, janitorial work, cleaning homes and toilets or even picking crops! I heard the other day that some farmers are paying $17 an hour for crops to be picked, but no Americans want to do it!

I think part if the problem is with the culture nowadays. Children are passed from one grade to another when they can’t read. Grades are inflated so a C student will get an A or B and failing students say the teacher doesn’t understand or they blame it on their poverty. Then when they get to the workplace, they aren’t coddled and either are fired or quit.

Maybe the immigrants don’t expect much and are hungry for any job, no matter how menial. Immigration laws do need to change, but deportation among people who aren’t criminals can’t happen, and as much as I like Trump, he has to know that.
I firmly believe Trump knows this very well. I am by no means convinced that his supporters understand that he knows this.
 
Worthy thoughts, but not practical in politics. I am not saying that Trump is pro-life or pro-abortion. I can only go by what he says now. However, should (should being the operative word) Trump be the GOP nominee, which I still doubt, you can either vote for him or vote for a Dem who we know has abortion at any time in gestation in the party platform, or some other candidate who hopes to upset the apple cart by going third party. Sometimes you have to take part of what you want when all of what you want is not possible.
No. If Trump is the nominee, he is not presenting a pro-life background to be proud of, and he is presenting an immigration policy that as a Catholic I can find inadequate.

At the debates the only thing he said is that a couple didn’t have an abortion now have a superstar. Great! I’m very happy there is a young person alive that could have been dead. Has he given any money to pro-life causes?

So, my choice is Vote for Trump (who is not strongly pro-life) Vote for The Democrat who most likely not be pro-life, or vote third party. Or stay home.

I might stay home, and it won’t be my fault if there isn’t a pro-life candidate.

It would be the fault of the Donald.
 
Has this been discussed on this thread already - Trump’s illegal immigrant employees?
At Trump hotel site, immigrant workers wary
All of them said they have been talking about Trump ever since his inflammatory remarks dominated coverage of his presidential announcement on June 16.
“It’s something ironic,” said Ivan Arellano, 29, who is from Mexico and obtained legal status through marriage. He now works as a mason laying the stonework for the lobby floor and walls of what will become the Trump International Hotel.
“The majority of us are Hispanics, many who came illegally,” Arellano said in Spanish. “And we’re all here working very hard to build a better life for our families.”
Interviews with about 15 laborers helping renovate the Old Post Office Pavilion revealed that many of them had crossed the U.S-Mexico border illegally before they eventually settled in the Washington region to build new lives.
washingtonpost.com/local/they-say-they-arrived-in-the-us-illegally-now-theyre-working-on-trumps-dc-hotel/2015/07/06/9a785116-20ec-11e5-84d5-eb37ee8eaa61_story.html

View attachment 22176
 
utah rose;13215891 said:
I think is idea to deport 11 million people is completely unworkable; however, the reality is that people who are here illegally actually are criminals. I know that doesn’t sound nice, but they have in fact broken the law.
 
No. If Trump is the nominee, he is not presenting a pro-life background to be proud of, and he is presenting an immigration policy that as a Catholic I can find inadequate.

At the debates the only thing he said is that a couple didn’t have an abortion now have a superstar. Great! I’m very happy there is a young person alive that could have been dead. Has he given any money to pro-life causes?

So, my choice is Vote for Trump (who is not strongly pro-life) Vote for The Democrat who most likely not be pro-life, or vote third party. Or stay home.

I might stay home, and it won’t be my fault if there isn’t a pro-life candidate.

It would be the fault of the Donald.
Fair enough (though I would vote for Trump if I had to). How about we all agree to put everything we have into making sure Trump is NOT the nominee - including voting for another candidate in our GOP primary / caucus and encouraging everyone we know to do the same? 🙂
 
I agree with a lot of your points, and it’s wonderful that you sponsored a family. However, re black youths that are unemployed, I’ve never heard or seen a study with reasons why. Yes, immigration could play a role, but are some of these youths high school drop outs, or do some of them have that attitude that’s very common among people today, that the pay isn’t high enough and they’re entitled to a better job then frying hamburgers, janitorial work, cleaning homes and toilets or even picking crops! I heard the other day that some farmers are paying $17 an hour for crops to be picked, but no Americans want to do it!

I think part if the problem is with the culture nowadays. Children are passed from one grade to another when they can’t read. Grades are inflated so a C student will get an A or B and failing students say the teacher doesn’t understand or they blame it on their poverty. Then when they get to the workplace, they aren’t coddled and either are fired or quit.

Maybe the immigrants don’t expect much and are hungry for any job, no matter how menial. Immigration laws do need to change, but deportation among people who aren’t criminals can’t happen, and as much as I like Trump, he has to know that.
I live in Alabama (originally from Massachusetts… talk about culture shock, even after 40 years) and the idiotic Alabama legislature passed, during the rise of Tea Party sentiment, the most draconian anti-immigrant law in the country. The result? The huge agriculture industry in the state was seriously damaged, as there were too few citizens willing to do the exhausting, difficult work.

The law was a total PR disaster, in a state that really doesn’t need anything else to make it look bad; the final straw was when police stopped a rental car and had to arrest the driver when he couldn’t produce the kind of ID acceptable under the new law. Turns out, he was an executive with Mercedes Benz, which has a plant in the state. Oops.

Any country certainly has the right to regulate its immigration policies. I’ve heard too many stories, however, about law enforcement looking the other way when local industries needed undocumented workers as cheap labor, and then rounded them up, often separating families, when the need was no longer there. (My daughter worked with many immigrants, both legal and not, in California and has just about seen it all.)

Our immigration policies have been broken for years, and it’s not just the immigrants who should be blamed. I have no tolerance for the racism and xenophobia exhibited by Trump and others (who will be speaking here in Mobile tonight, God help us. I hope the skies open up as predicted and rain on his hair.)
 
Trump may have been pro-life privately, I don’t fault him greatly, it is hard for New Yorkers in that area to be such, Giuliani, Judge Jeannine and others.

This is why Governor Chris Cristie’s achievements are so great really, he is in a pro-choice hotbed and he has acted for the right to life, defunded Planned Parenthood.

What won’t bother me, is someone who might horrendously equate the two sides per the abortion issue, defend the DNC’s record and now, say, Oh, this Trump hasn’t the best record on this.

If one has been pro-life for years, then such criticism may be merited, that is the view I hold somewhat myself as well.
Trump is a private citizen who has never held office. Pro-life privately? So is Joe Biden and so was Mario Cuomo.

What is his pro-life record? Has he donated to New York Right to life? Or any pro-life cause?

BUT he has donated to pro-choice candidates, Hillary Clinton, Chuck Schumer, Rahm Emanuel. Do pro-life people do that?
 
I live in Alabama (originally from Massachusetts… talk about culture shock, even after 40 years) and the idiotic Alabama legislature passed, during the rise of Tea Party sentiment, the most draconian anti-immigrant law in the country. The result? The huge agriculture industry in the state was seriously damaged, as there were too few citizens willing to do the exhausting, difficult work.

The law was a total PR disaster, in a state that really doesn’t need anything else to make it look bad; the final straw was when police stopped a rental car and had to arrest the driver when he couldn’t produce the kind of ID acceptable under the new law. Turns out, he was an executive with Mercedes Benz, which has a plant in the state. Oops.

Any country certainly has the right to regulate its immigration policies. I’ve heard too many stories, however, about law enforcement looking the other way when local industries needed undocumented workers as cheap labor, and then rounded them up, often separating families, when the need was no longer there. (My daughter worked with many immigrants, both legal and not, in California and has just about seen it all.)

Our immigration policies have been broken for years, and it’s not just the immigrants who should be blamed. I have no tolerance for the racism and xenophobia exhibited by Trump and others (who will be speaking here in Mobile tonight, God help us. I hope the skies open up as predicted and rain on his hair.)
Lived in Mobile for 5 years, and miss a lot of it as southerners are quite friendly.

I think the real elephant in the room is assimilation. When Italians for example immigrated to this country they learned our language either from their children or sometimes through night classes. I agree that English is not an easy language to learn, but when people have lived in our country for years, and either can’t or won’t learn the language they and their children may suffer as far as getting better jobs and understanding English.

My own parish is mostly Hispanic. I love the people and customs, but I still don’t understand why they won’t speak English (we have 2 Spanish Masses on Sunday ) and some Masses are bilingual.

I think many people resent this. And I don’t know what the answer is. Part of the problem may be that schools have the ESL thing, and perhaps if that was eliminated and children learned English from day 1 it could be solved. My mother who was a first generation from Czech parents retained her language but also had to speak English and learn this at Catholic school. My grandmother had to learn this too at Catholic school. My great grandmother did speak broken English, but all of our Masses were either in Latin or later English, although many parishioners retained the Czech language.

As far as I know, no politician has ever brought this up, probably because of perceived hostility. I hope this doesn’t sound racist as we are a country that welcomes immigrants but also would like to be able to converse and understand those who don’t.
 
Why does one not say “Such a statement makes this whole forum look bad”, that is basically the personal statement being offered
Because there are indeed rational, Christian people here. Often they’re drowned out in the World News section, unfortunately.
 
I live in Alabama (originally from Massachusetts… talk about culture shock, even after 40 years) and the idiotic Alabama legislature passed, during the rise of Tea Party sentiment, the most draconian anti-immigrant law in the country. The result? The huge agriculture industry in the state was seriously damaged, as there were too few citizens willing to do the exhausting, difficult work.

The law was a total PR disaster, in a state that really doesn’t need anything else to make it look bad; the final straw was when police stopped a rental car and had to arrest the driver when he couldn’t produce the kind of ID acceptable under the new law. Turns out, he was an executive with Mercedes Benz, which has a plant in the state. Oops.

Any country certainly has the right to regulate its immigration policies. I’ve heard too many stories, however, about law enforcement looking the other way when local industries needed undocumented workers as cheap labor, and then rounded them up, often separating families, when the need was no longer there. (My daughter worked with many immigrants, both legal and not, in California and has just about seen it all.)

Our immigration policies have been broken for years, and it’s not just the immigrants who should be blamed. I have no tolerance for the racism and xenophobia exhibited by Trump and others (who will be speaking here in Mobile tonight, God help us. I hope the skies open up as predicted and rain on his hair.)
I am from Pa. I don’t know enough about the Al. law, but when you’ve got a lawless man like Obama who releases over 100,000 illegal alien CRIMINALS a year, people have a right to defend themselves. Our rotten bleeding heart non-system doesn’t give a rip about the Kate Steinles of the world or hundreds of thousands of victims of illegal alien crimes.I believe that the number of illegals approaches 30 million, nowhere near the 11 million number that has been trotted out since 2000.
There are many fine people among the illicit population, but the strain on every institution has become unbearable, esp. to those who are victims of horrific crimes that never would or should have happened if America had sane policies. :eek:
 
I agree with a lot of your points, and it’s wonderful that you sponsored a family. However, re black youths that are unemployed, I’ve never heard or seen a study with reasons why. Yes, immigration could play a role, but are some of these youths high school drop outs, or do some of them have that attitude that’s very common among people today, that the pay isn’t high enough and they’re entitled to a better job then frying hamburgers, janitorial work, cleaning homes and toilets or even picking crops! I heard the other day that some farmers are paying $17 an hour for crops to be picked, but no Americans want to do it!

I think part if the problem is with the culture nowadays. Children are passed from one grade to another when they can’t read. Grades are inflated so a C student will get an A or B and failing students say the teacher doesn’t understand or they blame it on their poverty. Then when they get to the workplace, they aren’t coddled and either are fired or quit.

Maybe the immigrants don’t expect much and are hungry for any job, no matter how menial. Immigration laws do need to change, but deportation among people who aren’t criminals can’t happen, and as much as I like Trump, he has to know that.
I did not mean to suggest that there are no other factors in black youth unemployment. But I do think the United Farm Workers would dispute the assertion that there are no natives or legal residents who will pick crops. Them aside, I think one of the problems with all of that are the child labor laws. I picked strawberries for money when I was a kid, picked tomatoes and worked in a tomato cannery. I was glad to get the opportunity. But nobody paid any attention to the child labor laws then. I am going to guess that about half of my fellow workers were under the age of 16.

It could be that kids today wouldn’t do it, but just this past summer I saw some American kids picking for money…for a Hispanic gentleman who could barely speak English. It was one of those “pick your own” places. But people who just wanted the berries but didn’t want to pick them could buy them already picked by those kids. I can’t remember what the kids got per quart, but it was a lot more than I got back in the day. I think they were getting $1.25 per quart. Pretty good wages for a 12 or 13 year old. A good strawberry picker in a good patch can pick 50 quarts/day without too much difficulty. The most I ever saw anyone pick was 100 quarts/day, but those were all teenage girls years ago. I never saw a boy of any age reach that.

Again, illegals self-deport all the time. One of the reasons is that they are often investing their earnings back home. I know a guy and his son who alternate working here. Half the year, the father works here while the son tends their growing peach orchard near Mexico City. The other half, it’s reversed. I asked the man how much fresh peaches cost in Mexico City. “About the same as here” he said.

I know another man who sends his money to his wife in Guatemala. With it, she buys up banana-growing land there.

So, it’s not about starvation or even privation a good part of the time. It’s about currency differences. U.S. currency has been climbing relative to other currencies. Mexico and some other countries stagger from currecy crisis to currency crisis, and the dollar is much sought after.

Lichtenstein has the highest per capita income in the world. You can’t work in Lichtenstein if you’re not a citizen, and they don’t grant that very often. If I sneaked into Lichtenstein and made their kind of money in order to buy farm land or duplexes in the U.S., having an advantage over my fellow citizens in doing so, would Lichtenstein be unjust in kicking me out if they learned I was illegal? Hard to think so. And it’s hard to justify my going there, sneaking in and perhaps taking a job from a Lichtensteiner just because I want an advantage over my fellow Americans.

Similarly, I had an aunt whose husband had German citizenship. He died. She reached retirement age. She found out that the German version of Social Security is more generous than American Social Security (or was at the time) and she could gain by applying for the German version instead of the American version. She wouldn’t do it, because notwithstanding German laws, she knew that neither she nor her husband had ever paid a nickel into it, and she would be riding on the backs of Germans who had.

Certainly some foreigners, a lot of them, could get an advantage over their fellow citizens in their home countries by sneaking into the U.S. But I have yet to see anybody persuasively argue that it’s right or proper for them to do it. Remember, wages in Mexico are about 1/3 what they are here. But so is the cost of living. And unemployment is lower there than here.

What’s right about giving them an advantage over their fellow Mexicans when that’s really what we’re doing. And what’s right about their taking advantage of American taxpayers?

If the U.S. wants to increase immigration for rational reasons (and there can be some) that’s fine with me. But to encourage illegality and the fraud and forgery that goes along with it, is simply wrong.
 
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