Trump driving migrant debate among GOP field

[Path_Finder]

We are a nation of laws and those include asylum laws if one revisits the discussion about the Democratic Republic of Congo, perhaps one could apply for asylum which I don’t know if this actually happened or was just an example for an emotional appeal. That said, some play the system and it overloads the justice system.

pressherald.com/2015/08/21/more-than-80-immigrants-become-u-s-citizens-in-portland/ 80 plus new immigrants who legally come to the US are sworn in as citizens.

Consider France, and we read the story of Les Miserables, Jean Valjean stole the loaf of bread, stealing is wrong but his case had special circumstances. The court should apply leniency most likely. Compassion should be a part of the law.

Having an open border means when the justice system is overloaded, we have no one else to blame but ourselves and those who take advantage of the system.

Let alone, Phoenix, Arizona is known as the kidnapping capital of the US. Why is this? What about compassion for Americans too?

Citizen of Congo among others sworn into US Citizenship in Vermont: wptz.com/news/federal-judge-admits-new-us-citizens/34852074

We already allow a million into the US a year, let’s see how that compares to any other nation, some are real strict like Australia and Canada.

 

[didymus]

Lived in Mobile for 5 years, and miss a lot of it as southerners are quite friendly.

I think the real elephant in the room is assimilation. When Italians for example immigrated to this country they learned our language either from their children or sometimes through night classes. I agree that English is not an easy language to learn, but when people have lived in our country for years, and either can’t or won’t learn the language they and their children may suffer as far as getting better jobs and understanding English.

All the studies I’ve seen show that Hispanics assimilate at the same rate as other immigrants; the new parents speak little or no English, the children become bilingual and the third generation are almost exclusive English speakers. This is the process other groups before them went thru.
This appears not to be the case because their always new immigrants coming in. I used to work at a shelter for homeless families and with Hispanic families we often had to depend on the children to communicate with the parent. Btw, the biggest probem was not with immigrants but with Puerto Ricans who are, of course US citizens.

 

[meltzerboy]

Has this been discussed on this thread already - Trump’s illegal immigrant employees?

washingtonpost.com/local/they-say-they-arrived-in-the-us-illegally-now-theyre-working-on-trumps-dc-hotel/2015/07/06/9a785116-20ec-11e5-84d5-eb37ee8eaa61_story.html

View attachment 22176

Please keep this information to yourself. We’re not supposed to have such knowledge or think about this kind of paradox or hypocrisy.

 

[Path_Finder]

I am from Pa. I don’t know enough about the Al. law, but when you’ve got a lawless man like Obama who releases over 100,000 illegal alien CRIMINALS a year, people have a right to defend themselves. Our rotten bleeding heart non-system doesn’t give a rip about the Kate Steinles of the world or hundreds of thousands of victims of illegal alien crimes.I believe that the number of illegals approaches 30 million, nowhere near the 11 million number that has been trotted out since 2000.
There are many fine people among the illicit population, but the strain on every institution has become unbearable, esp. to those who are victims of horrific crimes that never would or should have happened if America had sane policies.

Well said.

 

[Path_Finder]

No. If Trump is the nominee, he is not presenting a pro-life background to be proud of, and he is presenting an immigration policy that as a Catholic I can find inadequate.

At the debates the only thing he said is that a couple didn’t have an abortion now have a superstar. Great! I’m very happy there is a young person alive that could have been dead. Has he given any money to pro-life causes?

So, my choice is Vote for Trump (who is not strongly pro-life) Vote for The Democrat who most likely not be pro-life, or vote third party. Or stay home.

I might stay home, and it won’t be my fault if there isn’t a pro-life candidate.

It would be the fault of the Donald.

Fine, I have voted Pro-Life in every decade, Jesus tells us to trust our fellow man.

If one doesn’t believe in helping out the cause of life against the likes of such evil as planned parenthood who Trump said he would remove funding from if they continue abortions, that’s your prerogative.

I would choose for life, even if it is not a “for sure” deal.

 

[SuperLuigi]

I think Donald Trump has been driving this topic PERIOD.

 

[FollowChrist34]

Please keep this information to yourself. We’re not supposed to have such knowledge or think about this kind of paradox or hypocrisy.

Noted. Sorry for stepping out of line there. Thanks for keeping an eye out. Things are not good on a thread when I, self-styled sometime champion of the subjective and irrational, end up being the voice of reason. :nope: :sad_yes:

 

[Path_Finder]

So Trump owns these hotels and he is suppose to know every single employee of his??

 

[Path_Finder]

Hypocrisy seems to also find itself in those who are so compassionate about illegal aliens, some of whom are criminals but can’t be found when there votes support evils like Planned Parenthood.

 

[FollowChrist34]

Hypocrisy seems to also find itself in those who are so compassionate about illegal aliens, some of whom are criminals but can’t be found when there votes support evils like Planned Parenthood.

:black_medium_small_square:As Catholics we are called to take concrete measures to overcome the misunderstanding, ignorance, competition, and fear that stand in the way of genuinely welcoming the stranger in our midst and enjoying the communion that is our destiny as Children of God. Welcoming the Stranger Among Us: Unity in Diversity, A Statement of the U.S. Catholic Bishops

:black_medium_small_square:The presence of so many people of so many different cultures and religions in so many different parts of the United States has challenged us as a Church to a profound conversion so that we can become truly a sacrament of unity. Welcoming the Stranger Among Us: Unity in Diversity, A Statement of the U.S. Catholic Bishops

:black_medium_small_square:The new immigrants call most of us back to our ancestral heritage as descendants of immigrants and to our baptismal heritage as members of the body of Christ. Welcoming the Stranger Among Us: Unity in Diversity, A Statement of the U.S. Catholic Bishops

:black_medium_small_square:The presence of brothers and sisters from different cultures should be celebrated as a gift to the Church. Welcoming the Stranger Among Us: Unity in Diversity, A Statement of the U.S. Catholic Bishops

:black_medium_small_square:Immigrants, new to our shores, call us out of our unawareness to a conversion of mind and heart through which we are able to offer a genuine and suitable welcome, to share together as brothers and sisters at the same table, and to work side by side to improve the quality of life for society’s marginalized members. Welcoming the Stranger Among Us: Unity in Diversity, A Statement of the U.S. Catholic Bishops

:black_medium_small_square:Through the members of the Church, solitary migrations are to end in the embrace of solidarity. Welcoming the Stranger Among Us: Unity in Diversity, A Statement of the U.S. Catholic Bishops

:black_medium_small_square:The Catholic community is rapidly re-encountering itself as an “immigrant Church,” a witness at once to the diversity of people who make up our world and to our unity in one humanity, destined to enjoy the fullness of God’s blessing in Jesus Christ. Welcoming the Stranger Among Us: Unity in Diversity, A Statement of the U.S. Catholic Bishops

:black_medium_small_square:The Church supports the human rights of all people and offers them pastoral care, education, and social services, no matter what the circumstances of entry into this country, and it works for the respect of the human dignity of allespecially those who find themselves in desperate circumstances. Welcoming the Stranger Among Us: Unity in Diversity, A Statement of the U.S. Catholic Bishops

:black_medium_small_square:We call upon all people of good will, but Catholics especially, to welcome the newcomers in their neighborhoods and schools, in their places of work and worship, with heartfelt hospitality, openness, and eagerness both to help and to learn from our brothers and sisters of whatever religion, ethnicity, or background. Welcoming the Stranger Among Us: Unity in Diversity, A Statement of the U.S. Catholic Bishops

:black_medium_small_square:Racist attitudes can linger in subtle ways, even when people get to know one another in parish activities, unless we vigorously educate ourselves about our neighbors, learn to appreciate their heritages, encounter their own images of us, and strive to work with them on behalf of common causes. Welcoming the Stranger Among Us: Unity in Diversity, A Statement of the U.S. Catholic Bishops

:black_medium_small_square:Indeed, no culture is either permanent or perfect. All constantly need to be evangelized and uplifted by the good news of Jesus Christ. Welcoming the Stranger Among Us: Unity in Diversity, A Statement of the U.S. Catholic Bishops

:black_medium_small_square:The Church of the twenty-first century requires a profound conversion in spirit and in its institutions to reflect its own cultural pluralism, to address the needs of the whole Catholic community, and to further a genuine communion of solidarity among the diverse members of the Body of Christ. Welcoming the Stranger Among Us: Unity in Diversity, A Statement of the U.S. Catholic Bishops

 

[Path_Finder]

:black_medium_small_square:As Catholics we are called to take concrete measures to overcome the misunderstanding, ignorance, competition, and fear that stand in the way of genuinely welcoming the stranger in our midst and enjoying the communion that is our destiny as Children of God. Welcoming the Stranger Among Us: Unity in Diversity, A Statement of the U.S. Catholic Bishops

:black_medium_small_square:The presence of so many people of so many different cultures and religions in so many different parts of the United States has challenged us as a Church to a profound conversion so that we can become truly a sacrament of unity. Welcoming the Stranger Among Us: Unity in Diversity, A Statement of the U.S. Catholic Bishops

:black_medium_small_square:The new immigrants call most of us back to our ancestral heritage as descendants of immigrants and to our baptismal heritage as members of the body of Christ. Welcoming the Stranger Among Us: Unity in Diversity, A Statement of the U.S. Catholic Bishops

:black_medium_small_square:The presence of brothers and sisters from different cultures should be celebrated as a gift to the Church. Welcoming the Stranger Among Us: Unity in Diversity, A Statement of the U.S. Catholic Bishops

:black_medium_small_square:Immigrants, new to our shores, call us out of our unawareness to a conversion of mind and heart through which we are able to offer a genuine and suitable welcome, to share together as brothers and sisters at the same table, and to work side by side to improve the quality of life for society’s marginalized members. Welcoming the Stranger Among Us: Unity in Diversity, A Statement of the U.S. Catholic Bishops

:black_medium_small_square:Through the members of the Church, solitary migrations are to end in the embrace of solidarity. Welcoming the Stranger Among Us: Unity in Diversity, A Statement of the U.S. Catholic Bishops

:black_medium_small_square:The Catholic community is rapidly re-encountering itself as an “immigrant Church,” a witness at once to the diversity of people who make up our world and to our unity in one humanity, destined to enjoy the fullness of God’s blessing in Jesus Christ. Welcoming the Stranger Among Us: Unity in Diversity, A Statement of the U.S. Catholic Bishops

:black_medium_small_square:The Church supports the human rights of all people and offers them pastoral care, education, and social services, no matter what the circumstances of entry into this country, and it works for the respect of the human dignity of allespecially those who find themselves in desperate circumstances. Welcoming the Stranger Among Us: Unity in Diversity, A Statement of the U.S. Catholic Bishops

:black_medium_small_square:We call upon all people of good will, but Catholics especially, to welcome the newcomers in their neighborhoods and schools, in their places of work and worship, with heartfelt hospitality, openness, and eagerness both to help and to learn from our brothers and sisters of whatever religion, ethnicity, or background. Welcoming the Stranger Among Us: Unity in Diversity, A Statement of the U.S. Catholic Bishops

:black_medium_small_square:Racist attitudes can linger in subtle ways, even when people get to know one another in parish activities, unless we vigorously educate ourselves about our neighbors, learn to appreciate their heritages, encounter their own images of us, and strive to work with them on behalf of common causes. Welcoming the Stranger Among Us: Unity in Diversity, A Statement of the U.S. Catholic Bishops

:black_medium_small_square:Indeed, no culture is either permanent or perfect. All constantly need to be evangelized and uplifted by the good news of Jesus Christ. Welcoming the Stranger Among Us: Unity in Diversity, A Statement of the U.S. Catholic Bishops

:black_medium_small_square:The Church of the twenty-first century requires a profound conversion in spirit and in its institutions to reflect its own cultural pluralism, to address the needs of the whole Catholic community, and to further a genuine communion of solidarity among the diverse members of the Body of Christ. Welcoming the Stranger Among Us: Unity in Diversity, A Statement of the U.S. Catholic Bishops

Sure, we take in 1,000,000 immigrants a year already, that’s generous, show me another country that does. Is that not enough?

 

[Path_Finder]

Catholic Social Teaching

The Catholic Catechism instructs the faithful that good government has two duties, both of which must be carried out and neither of which can be ignored. The first duty is to welcome the foreigner out of charity and respect for the human person. Persons have the right to immigrate and thus government must accommodate this right to the greatest extent possible, especially financially blessed nations: “The more prosperous nations are obliged, to the extent they are able, to welcome the foreigner in search of the security and the means of livelihood which he cannot find in his country of origin. Public authorities should see to it that the natural right is respected that places a guest under the protection of those who receive him.” Catholic Catechism, 2241.

The second duty is to secure one’s border and enforce the law for the sake of the common good. Sovereign nations have the right to enforce their laws and all persons must respect the legitimate exercise of this right: "Political authorities, for the sake of the common good for which they are responsible may make the exercise of the right to immigrate subject to various juridical conditions, especially with regard to the immigrants’ duties toward their country of adoption. Immigrants are obliged to respect with gratitude the material and spiritual heritage of the country that receives them, to obey its laws and to assist in carrying civic burdens."

Catholic Catechism, 2241.

No, sorry, legislation as in California for home-abortions and the like is not respecting the material and spiritual heritage of the country, furthermore, everyone in the West also knows how many Californians have left their homestate and many would postulate, this is why Washington, Oregon, Colorado are all more liberal. 50 states in the USA do not need to be a mirror reflection of this.

Forget something?

:black_medium_small_square:As Catholics we are called to take concrete measures to overcome the misunderstanding, ignorance, competition, and fear that stand in the way of genuinely welcoming the stranger in our midst and enjoying the communion that is our destiny as Children of God. Welcoming the Stranger Among Us: Unity in Diversity, A Statement of the U.S. Catholic Bishops

:black_medium_small_square:The presence of so many people of so many different cultures and religions in so many different parts of the United States has challenged us as a Church to a profound conversion so that we can become truly a sacrament of unity. Welcoming the Stranger Among Us: Unity in Diversity, A Statement of the U.S. Catholic Bishops

:black_medium_small_square:The new immigrants call most of us back to our ancestral heritage as descendants of immigrants and to our baptismal heritage as members of the body of Christ. Welcoming the Stranger Among Us: Unity in Diversity, A Statement of the U.S. Catholic Bishops

:black_medium_small_square:The presence of brothers and sisters from different cultures should be celebrated as a gift to the Church. Welcoming the Stranger Among Us: Unity in Diversity, A Statement of the U.S. Catholic Bishops

:black_medium_small_square:Immigrants, new to our shores, call us out of our unawareness to a conversion of mind and heart through which we are able to offer a genuine and suitable welcome, to share together as brothers and sisters at the same table, and to work side by side to improve the quality of life for society’s marginalized members. Welcoming the Stranger Among Us: Unity in Diversity, A Statement of the U.S. Catholic Bishops

:black_medium_small_square:Through the members of the Church, solitary migrations are to end in the embrace of solidarity. Welcoming the Stranger Among Us: Unity in Diversity, A Statement of the U.S. Catholic Bishops

:black_medium_small_square:The Catholic community is rapidly re-encountering itself as an “immigrant Church,” a witness at once to the diversity of people who make up our world and to our unity in one humanity, destined to enjoy the fullness of God’s blessing in Jesus Christ. Welcoming the Stranger Among Us: Unity in Diversity, A Statement of the U.S. Catholic Bishops

:black_medium_small_square:The Church supports the human rights of all people and offers them pastoral care, education, and social services, no matter what the circumstances of entry into this country, and it works for the respect of the human dignity of allespecially those who find themselves in desperate circumstances. Welcoming the Stranger Among Us: Unity in Diversity, A Statement of the U.S. Catholic Bishops

:black_medium_small_square:We call upon all people of good will, but Catholics especially, to welcome the newcomers in their neighborhoods and schools, in their places of work and worship, with heartfelt hospitality, openness, and eagerness both to help and to learn from our brothers and sisters of whatever religion, ethnicity, or background. Welcoming the Stranger Among Us: Unity in Diversity, A Statement of the U.S. Catholic Bishops

:black_medium_small_square:Racist attitudes can linger in subtle ways, even when people get to know one another in parish activities, unless we vigorously educate ourselves about our neighbors, learn to appreciate their heritages, encounter their own images of us, and strive to work with them on behalf of common causes. Welcoming the Stranger Among Us: Unity in Diversity, A Statement of the U.S. Catholic Bishops

:black_medium_small_square:Indeed, no culture is either permanent or perfect. All constantly need to be evangelized and uplifted by the good news of Jesus Christ. Welcoming the Stranger Among Us: Unity in Diversity, A Statement of the U.S. Catholic Bishops

:black_medium_small_square:The Church of the twenty-first century requires a profound conversion in spirit and in its institutions to reflect its own cultural pluralism, to address the needs of the whole Catholic community, and to further a genuine communion of solidarity among the diverse members of the Body of Christ. Welcoming the Stranger Among Us: Unity in Diversity, A Statement of the U.S. Catholic Bishops

 

[FollowChrist34]

massresistance.org/romney/Amy_Contrada_articles/free_abortions.html

March 7, 2012

RomneyCare now offers free elective surgical abortions.

Mitt Romney was the enabler. This is how his government-dictated health plan is playing out. And he’s still proud of it. When he does touch on defects in his health plan, he never mentions abortion coverage as a problem. He’s either fine with it, or realizes he has to downplay it to get the conservative vote.

When the law was first implemented, there was a $50 copay for a RomneyCare elective surgical abortion. Now RomneyCare abortions are “free” for a $0 copay (or $50-$100 in some plans). In fact, the $0 copay shows up as early as 2008 at the Massachusetts Health Care Connector site. (The “Commonwealth Care” plans cover low-income residents, many of whom pay no monthly premiums.)

Of course, the abortions are not exactly free. We, the taxpayers cover the cost, whether we want to or not.

Amazingly, as overall RomneyCare costs and insurance premiums escalate, the copay for abortion drops! Why?

Because government health care is promoting abortion. This is really about “population control” by arrogant politicians and bureaucrat elites, righteously implementing Margaret Sanger’s eugenics dream. They don’t like excess people, especially if they’re “low income.”

I fear we are getting a bit off topic, not to mention going backwards in time.

 

[Path_Finder]

massresistance.org/romney/Amy_Contrada_articles/free_abortions.html

I fear we are getting a bit off topic, not to mention going backwards in time.

Not to mention, going back to the most Democratic state of the Union. What is it? 75% or more Democrat?

 

[Path_Finder]

Anyone posting Mass resistance info is posting definitely a conservative website but rather than broadsiding a thread with this info; let’s remember a few things:

1.) Romney said that though he was personally against abortion in running for Governor, that he would not upset the status quo in Massachusetts.

2.) The Massachusetts Supreme Court upheld, well before Romney became governor, abortion as being health care, meaning, any health care plan had to have abortion coverage. Period, no coverage for abortion, no healthcare for the millions in Mass.

3.) Mass. is the most heavily Democratic state in the Union, no healthcare plan could go through without approval by its Democratic legislatures.

4.) Mass. pro-life organizations endorsed Romney and stated that the coverage was not Romney’s fault, he did NOT design it in the bill.

5.) This highlights Romney’s problem with many voters but the whole Eastern Seaboard at a minimum, has a lot of this as do some other more Blue State areas.

Looks like the ‘gotcha’ article has been deflated.

 

[FollowChrist34]

Not to mention, going back to the most Democratic state of the Union. What is it? 75% or more Democrat?

Sounds about right - all I know is they voted for and loved Romney, stalwart defender of social conservative values and committed Mormon though he is.

Gay Marriage in Massachusetts
Governor Mitt Romney said he disagreed with the SJC’s decision, but “We obviously have to follow the law as provided by the Supreme Judicial Court, even if we don’t agree with it”. He said he would work with the legislature to draft a law “consistent” with the ruling. He also backed an amendment to the state constitution to define marriage as the union of a man and a woman while also providing by statute “basic civil rights and appropriate benefits to same-sex couples and other nontraditional relationships.”[45] Romney quickly joined legislators in attempting to satisfy the Goodridge decision by creating civil unions for same-sex couples.[46] His views were recognized as an attempt to establish his record on a controversial issue while planning to run for the Republican nomination for president.[47] Former Governor Weld took credit for laying the groundwork for the decision: “A lot of the stuff we did foreshadowed the opinion.” He said: “It is a thunderbolt, but a thunderbolt correctly heard.”[48]

Opponents of gay and lesbian rights opposed any compromise with the SJC. Brian Camenker, head of the Parents Rights Coalition, said: “As Martin Luther King pointed out in his letter from the Birmingham jail, there are some laws that are so unnatural that you have an obligation to openly defy them. The concept of stable, healthy gay relationships is largely a manufacturing of the gay propaganda machine.” He called the decision “complete lunacy” and said: “It’s beyond shocking. It’s madness. It’s four judges basically turning society inside out with no (name removed by moderator)ut from anybody else.”[49]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Same-sex_marriage_in_Massachusetts

Also, I do think this is on topic after all - I doubt Trump will be much different. Gotta run!

 

[Path_Finder]

As long as Romney is brought up in this debate, I’m sure he and Paul Ryan would have sought to do their part for pro-life causes. Paul Ryan is as pro-life as one could hope. Romney points to the problems of someone from the East being appealing to the whole nation, still, in the end in politics, I think they call it the art of compromise.

In fact, check out who sent out adds against Mitt Romney, Oh?! You don’t mean Planned Parenthood did??

Ad targets Romney on abortion, Planned Parenthood
washingtonpost.com/blogs/virginia-politics/post/ad-targets-romney-on-abortion-planned-parenthood/2012/07/07/gJQABnDUTW_blog.html

 

[Path_Finder]

Sounds about right - all I know is they voted for and loved Romney, stalwart defender of social conservative values and committed Mormon though he is.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Same-sex_marriage_in_Massachusetts

Also, I do think this is on topic after all - I doubt Trump will be much different. Gotta run!

Well, then tell me why Planned Parenthood had ads targeting Romney over abortion if Romney is such a friend to the abortion industry?

washingtonpost.com/blogs/virginia-politics/post/ad-targets-romney-on-abortion-planned-parenthood/2012/07/07/gJQABnDUTW_blog.html

Yeah, “gotta run” alright.

Now, if one is going to compare the world of 2012 as pre-ISIS and pre-Ukraine and the like, obviously, we would be in better shape with Romney, let alone, Romney contends he has always been pro-traditional marriage. You are taking conservative talking points to put Romney down when again, he has his side of the story as well.

Yes; I think Romney is like Trump, both way better for life, for the country than Democrats. Touche.

Romney did not legislate gay marriage, he left the bill on the table, something like that because he thought it was futile to take it to the Massachusetts Supreme Court.

For all of this talk, attacking Romney, let’s see:

Gov. Rick Perry, defund Planned Parenthood.
Gov. Scott Walker, defund Planned Parenthood, signed Ultra-sound bill.

And the list goes on, Governor Christie, and clinics were shut down in these states.

 

[Path_Finder]

Obamacare, ACA passes in the dark of the night, read what’s in it. Important vote in that passing, Al Franken, elected in a questionable election where the Republican won the first count and probably was elected because of Somali refugees, generously sponsored by Christian Churches in the US, if this doesn’t indicate the dangers that can happen in losing our voice, I don’t know what will.

Then, we have to watch out if this “power given to politicians” actually has a detrimental effect on the nation.

Colorado, Washington legalizing pot? Where did those votes all come from? We’ve got to be careful of all this.

 

[philipl]

I haven’t seen it getting rave reviews from the GOP-none of the other candidates have endorsed it. Its an unworkable idea. I lean towards open borders myself I think illegal immigrants have been a huge asset to this country. The you can kick 11 million people out is ridiculous

illegals over the past 40 years have done more damage to this country than all the wars, depressions, and illnesses combined. It not just here but also in Europe the damage is being done. This country and I doubt most countries in europe will survive the culture change that will take place.

Let me give you another great example of immigrants being a assets to America. Disney was going to lay off every single American IT worker and bring in immigrants from India. Now the best workers from India have great jobs there in india, we get the lower performing ones. But too many Ameircans sent angry emails to Disney. I was one of them. My wife and I were in the process of buying a Disney vacation package, I cancelled it over their great idea of getting rid of american workers. Disney changed their mind over the uproar.

Its not just the illegals coming across the border, but also the Muslim we are moving into cities by the 10’s of thousands. They are not going to become americans they are going to demand we become Muslims. Just watch, in two or three more generations this country will either be a part of Mexico or it will be a Muslim country.