Trump driving migrant debate among GOP field

[didymus]

The 14th Amendment doesn’t grant “birthright citizenship”.

Actually, it does and besides that birthright citizenship was part of the common law from the early days of the Republic, anybody born in the US (except slaves and Indians and children of ambassadors) was considered a “natural born citizen”. See: redstate.com/2012/05/21/on-this-natural-born-citizen-issue-part-i-from-alexander-hamilton-to-lynch-v-clarke/

The case of Julia Lynch, explained in the article is a propos. She was born in the US, her parents brought her back to Ireland when she was only a few months old. Her uncle remained here and she returned to claim his estate years later. SCOTUS found that she was a “natural born citizen” 20+ years before the 14th.

 

[Sy_Noe]

The 14th Amendment doesn’t grant “birthright citizenship”.

If you think that then you’re not reading the first sentence of the 14th Amendment.

“All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside.”

That’s really as clear as it can be. The end of the story. Period.

But further, the very first paragraph continues with “no state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.”

Even Bill O’Reilly of conservative FOX News informed Trump of this, asking Trump if he needed the amendment read to him and O’Reilly explained there’s not a court in this land that will allow citizens to be deported without each citizen having their right of due process in a court of law. And that would take decades.

I rarely agree with anything I hear from the FOX News personalities but O’Reilly hit this one right on the mark.

And yes I know section 5 says the Congress has the power to enforce the article. But enforcing doesn’t mean changing the very first sentence which clearly states all persons born here are citizens. If a Republican Congress tried changing that… see them in court. And the interpretation of the Constitution on this would be crystal clear.

 

[meltzerboy]

Trump’s a joke. He says he will round up every undocumented immigrant including their children who were born in America, children who in many cases know no other homeland and in many cases might not have even been outside the US, and uprooting entire families from their lives and deporting them. Some of these families may even be sitting in our churches pews. But then as he deems “the good ones” could be expedited back into the US. LOL what a colossal waste of time and resources. Trump is nothing more than hot air playing to the Republican primary electorate. He is entertaining this liberal though. I’d never vote for the guy but getting a lot of laughs from his show. It would be funnier if what he is proposing wasn’t so sad.

And if Trump is elected President, he won’t have a clue regarding how to manage the deportation of so many people. He is all bravado and braggadocio, and has no intention of acting on his promises.

 

[didymus]

And if Trump is elected President, he won’t have a clue regarding how to manage the deportation of so many people. He is all bravado and braggadocio, and has no intention of acting on his promises.

Let’s say he does get elected and manages to get his plan passed, eleven million people are rounded up and deported to Mexico.
Mexico is, if not a failed state, teetering on the edge. Remittances from the US make up 2% of Mexico’s GDP but they make up 20-25% of the poorer state’s GDP. So if Trump gets is way Mexico descends into economic depression and total chaos. Maybe China and Russia will step in to offer foreign aid in exchange for military bases.

Fortunately Trump really doesn’t care about immigration at all, he’s just a demagogue who has picked it as an issue he can get people fired up about.

 

[ucfengr]

If you think that then you’re not reading the first sentence of the 14th Amendment.

“All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside.”

That’s really as clear as it can be. The end of the story. Period.

Illegal immigrants aren’t under the jurisdiction of the US, they are subjects of and owe allegiance to a foreign power, as are their children.

 

[ucfengr]

If you think that then you’re not reading the first sentence of the 14th Amendment.

“All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside.”

That’s really as clear as it can be. The end of the story. Period.

Even if you concede that the 14th amendment does grant “birth right” citizenship, I don’t see how that extends citizenship to every member of the infants extended family. Okay, the kid’s a citizen, but his parents still aren’t and they have no right to be here.

 

[estesbob]

Trump’s a joke. He says he will round up every undocumented immigrant including their children who were born in America, children who in many cases know no other homeland and in many cases might not have even been outside the US, and uprooting entire families from their lives and deporting them. Some of these families may even be sitting in our churches pews. But then as he deems “the good ones” could be expedited back into the US. LOL what a colossal waste of time and resources. Trump is nothing more than hot air playing to the Republican primary electorate. He is entertaining this liberal though. I’d never vote for the guy but getting a lot of laughs from his show. It would be funnier if what he is proposing wasn’t so sad.

Seems rather strange. If you’re going to deport them and then let them him back in “legally” you’re basically embracing the Obama plan of allowing them to stay and offering them a path to citizenship. I personally lean towards open borders but no path for citizenship for those Who come here illegally. Unfortunately Trump has made it nearly impossible for any republican the talk about this issue rationally instead pushing the discussion to as to what kind and how high the wall needs to be

 

[estesbob]

And if Trump is elected President, he won’t have a clue regarding how to manage the deportation of so many people. He is all bravado and braggadocio, and has no intention of acting on his promises.

He says the first thing he’s going to do is remove the Hispanic gangs. Said he’ll do it in a matter of days. Of course as with most of the Trumps grandiose schemes ,like how is gonna force Mexico to pay for the “wall”, he offers no details as to how is going to accomplish it

The really ,really scary part of all that he is far preferable to anyone the Democrat Party is offering as an alternative .!

 

[Seamus_L]

The best solution to the illegal alien problem is to heavily fine those who employ them. And yes I know that alot of Americans, including staunch Republicans, love the idea of cheap labor performed by illegals, but that sure doesn’t justify it.

 

[Path_Finder]

The best solution to the illegal alien problem is to heavily fine those who employ them. And yes I know that alot of Americans, including staunch Republicans, love the idea of cheap labor performed by illegals, but that sure doesn’t justify it.

Looks like criminal penalties are on the books for those who employ them. This should be handed out as well. uscis.gov/i-9-central/penalties

It is probably rare they ever do this to employers.

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

And if Trump is elected President, he won’t have a clue regarding how to manage the deportation of so many people. He is all bravado and braggadocio, and has no intention of acting on his promises.

Yes. Andrew Napolitano is not liberal at all. He stated that each deported person is entitled to a hearing and an appeal.

The courts can handle about 250,000 per year.

 

[Path_Finder]

Yes. Andrew Napolitano is not liberal at all. He stated that each deported person is entitled to a hearing and an appeal.

The courts can handle about 250,000 per year.

They may be due to a hearing and an appeal. Why? Because this is Constitutional law.

That is what is known as “due process”.

The reference in the 5th Amendment applies only to the federal government and its courts and agencies. The reference in the 14th Amendment extends protection of due process to all state governments, agencies, and courts.

Due process, in the context of the United States, refers to how and why laws are enforced. It applies to all persons, citizen or alien, as well as to corporations.

usconstitution.net/consttop_duep.html

There appears to be an expedited form for deportation though.

Napolitano sounds like he is merely talking about what the law states.

 

[meltzerboy]

He says the first thing he’s going to do is remove the Hispanic gangs. Said he’ll do it in a matter of days. Of course as with most of the Trumps grandiose schemes ,like how is gonna force Mexico to pay for the “wall”, he offers no details as to how is going to accomplish it

The really ,really scary part of all that he is far preferable to anyone the Democrat Party is offering as an alternative .!

You know I don’t agree with your last statement.

OTOH, he may be preferable to all the other Republican candidates! Uber-scary, this.

 

[meltzerboy]

They may be due to a hearing and an appeal. Why? Because this is Constitutional law.

That is what is known as “due process”.

usconstitution.net/consttop_duep.html

There appears to be an expedited form for deportation though.

Napolitano sounds like he is merely talking about what the law states.

In regard to your last statement, I thought the law is what this whole immigration issue is about. Why then do you say “merely talking about what the law states”?

 

[Sy_Noe]

Even if you concede that the 14th amendment does grant “birth right” citizenship, I don’t see how that extends citizenship to every member of the infants extended family. Okay, the kid’s a citizen, but his parents still aren’t and they have no right to be here.

Okay but I personally don’t believe the Christian thing to do is to break up families or uproot children from the only home they’ve ever known. But that’s just me.

 

[Sy_Noe]

Actually, it does and besides that birthright citizenship was part of the common law from the early days of the Republic, anybody born in the US (except slaves and Indians and children of ambassadors) was considered a “natural born citizen”. See: redstate.com/2012/05/21/on-this-natural-born-citizen-issue-part-i-from-alexander-hamilton-to-lynch-v-clarke/

The case of Julia Lynch, explained in the article is a propos. She was born in the US, her parents brought her back to Ireland when she was only a few months old. Her uncle remained here and she returned to claim his estate years later. SCOTUS found that she was a “natural born citizen” 20+ years before the 14th.

Missed your post before I posted the 14 amendment last night but yup.

 

[Sy_Noe]

Let’s say he does get elected and manages to get his plan passed, eleven million people are rounded up and deported to Mexico.
Mexico is, if not a failed state, teetering on the edge. Remittances from the US make up 2% of Mexico’s GDP but they make up 20-25% of the poorer state’s GDP. So if Trump gets is way Mexico descends into economic depression and total chaos. Maybe China and Russia will step in to offer foreign aid in exchange for military bases.

Fortunately Trump really doesn’t care about immigration at all, he’s just a demagogue who has picked it as an issue he can get people fired up about.

Well maybe he doesn’t care if Mexico descends into depression and total chaos since he’s not eating Oreos anyway.

 

[Sy_Noe]

You know I don’t agree with your last statement.

OTOH, he may be preferable to all the other Republican candidates! Uber-scary, this.

Well if you don’t agree that Trump is far better than any Democrat, you can be certain I don’t.

 

[ucfengr]

Okay but I personally don’t believe the Christian thing to do is to break up families or uproot children from the only home they’ve ever known. But that’s just me.

Maybe the parents should have considered that before they came to the US illegally. It’s not like they didn’t know that they were breaking the law. Do you think a Christian immigration policy should reward lawbreakers at the expense of people that immigrated legally?

 

[Sy_Noe]

Maybe the parents should have considered that before they came to the US illegally. It’s not like they didn’t know that they were breaking the law. Do you think a Christian immigration policy should reward lawbreakers at the expense of people that immigrated legally?

I think Obama and the Catholic bishops got the Christian thing about right when they called for not rewarding them but still a pathway to eventual citizenship.

americamagazine.org/content/all-things/bishops-others-applaud-obama-plan-immigrants