Trump family’s elaborate lifestyle is a ‘logistical nightmare’ — at taxpayer expense

[Reuben_J]

Wow. We’ll never see eye to eye, going to have to agree to disagree.

Sure, no problem, you don’t have to agree with me.

I have highlighted in red what we stand for. There is no compromise in those because these are abomination and sin; against our God and His commandment.

I could go on to tell you why.

 

[lmachine]

No one is forcing anyone to do anything except those who feel the need to drag others into a costly legal process over not receiving a non-essential service related a wedding.

It would probably be a smart course of action to avoid violating the law and opening yourself to that costly process.

 

[ATraveller]

It would probably be a smart course of action to avoid violating the law and opening yourself to that costly process.

Were all of these cases in states where the law was definite on this matter?

 

[Corki]

No one’s forcing anyone to do anything. If you feel the antidiscrimination laws in your jurisdiction might violate your beliefs you don’t have to volunteer to run a business there.

The problem with that logic is that, in most cases, these cases in the news were existing businesses. It is rather harsh to say that a business has to close completely or uproot to another state rather than to change their business model to cater to a small percentage of potential customers.

That’s the choice they are being given - capitulate to perversion or close up and move on.

 

[lmachine]

Were all of these cases in states where the law was definite on this matter?

Yes, at least for the cases I’m aware of (Washington florist, New Mexico photographer, Colorado baker).

 

[lmachine]

The problem with that logic is that, in most cases, these cases in the news were existing businesses. It is rather harsh to say that a business has to close completely or uproot to another state rather than to change their business model to cater to a small percentage of potential customers.

That’s the choice they are being given - capitulate to perversion or close up and move on.

Part of running a licensed business is following the law. Laws change. Price of doing business.

 

[dvdjs]

TRUMP PROGRESS REPORT AFTER THREE WEEKS ON THE JOB

1. Trump erased all mentions on the White House website of “climate change.” He did that within ONE HOUR of taking the oath of office.
2. Trump issued an Executive order to “ease the burden of Obamacare”.
3. Trump returned the bust of Winston Churchill to the oval office.
4. Trump withdrew America from the TPP treaty.
5. Trump erased all Spanish language from the White House web site. It’s now “English Only[cdn-cf.aol.com/se/smi/0201d20638/02].”](http://cdn-cf.aol.com/se/smi/0201d20638/02].”)
6. Trump issued an Executive order starting construction of “THE WALL.”
7. Trump issued an Executive order banning funding to foreign pro-abortion groups.
8. Trump’s new Secretary of Defense, James ‘Mad Dog’ Mattis (as the new Secretary of Defense), took the fight to ISIS by bombing them 31 times on his very first day[cdn-cf.aol.com/se/smi/0201d20638/02]](http://cdn-cf.aol.com/se/smi/0201d20638/02]).
9. Trump announced temporary ban on refugees from Syria & Middle Eastern war zones.
10. Trump imposed a media blackout at the Environmental Protection Agency & barred staff from awarding new contracts or grants.
11. Trump announced a ban on visas from dangerous Muslim-majority countries with inadequate screening.
12. Trump announced the end of “Sanctuary cities” & the defunding of federal funds for any city that chooses to continue breaking the law.
13. Trump announced the hiring of 10,000 [cdn-cf.aol.com/se/smi/0201d20638/02]](http://cdn-cf.aol.com/se/smi/0201d20638/02]) new border agents.
14. Trump signed an Executive order demanding the Secretary of Homeland Security publish a weekly list of violent crimes committed by illegal aliens.
15. Trump signed an Executive order freezing the hiring of non-essential federal employees.
16. Trump said out loud the words “radical Islamic terrorism.”
17. Trump stopped [cdn-cf.aol.com/se/smi/0201d20638/02]](http://cdn-cf.aol.com/se/smi/0201d20638/02]) payment on Obama’s final hour giveaway of $220 million to the Palestinian Authority.
18. Trump used Executive orders to give the go-ahead to the long-stalled Keystone & Dakota Access Pipelines.
19. Trump got the State Department’s [cdn-cf.aol.com/se/smi/0201d20638/08]](http://cdn-cf.aol.com/se/smi/0201d20638/08]) entire senior management team to resign in frustration.
20. Trump announced his intention to withdraw From Climate & Environmental Accords Along With UN Funding [cdn-cf.aol.com/se/smi/0201d20638/08]](http://cdn-cf.aol.com/se/smi/0201d20638/08]) Cuts of 40%.
21. Trump tweeted “Ungrateful TRAITOR Chelsea Manning (who should never have been released from prison) is now calling President Obama a weak leader. Terrible![cdn-cf.aol.com/se/smi/0201d20638/08]”](http://cdn-cf.aol.com/se/smi/0201d20638/08]”)
22. Trump announced he’ll begin a major investigation into voter fraud in the 2016 election.
23. Trump got the chief of the Border Patrol to leave the agency in frustration at having to actually do his job!
24. State Dept. Arms Control chief fired while on airplane; Trump told him to turn around & fly back[cdn-cf.aol.com/se/smi/0201d20638/08]](http://cdn-cf.aol.com/se/smi/0201d20638/08])!
25. Miami-Dade mayor orders jails to comply with Trump crackdown on ‘sanctuary’ counties.
26. Trump White House abruptly halts Obamacare ads.
27. Trump appoints Neil Gorsuch to U.S. Supreme Court, as Justice in the mold of Antonin Scalia.

…and all this in less than two weeks in office. More to come!

Two weeks or three, this is quite a hoot.

Most of it is MOUTH: things that he proclaimed. Some are appointments to fill the cabinet, but even he complains that he is lagging there, Some of the items were held up as examples of FAKE NEWS #1, #19 and IIRC #10.

He did implement the “Muslim ban” but that lasted only a day before being brought to heel by the court

The Obama administration, apart from impactful EO’s, had had three majors pieces of legislation passed by this point, including ARRA (where is Trump’s infrastructure bill?), Ledbetter, and S-CHIP.

What a bunch of chumps.

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

I don’t think it’s a problem for them.

Reason: When country clubs host major events, like the US Open, they often lose the ability to play the course, not just when the Open is in town, but could lose the ability to play for upwards of a year before hand so changes can be made to the course. Then, if they are not going to keep the changes, then it could be closed for another extended amount of time to restore the course to it’s former design.

Merion Country Club outside Philly, host of the 2013 US Open was a good example. They close a good part of the course for a long time to prep it for the Open and then to restore it.

Point is: a lot of Country Clubs see this kind of thing as a “status builder.” So they will not complain if it makes their membership more exclusive and valuable.

On the flip side, you have Pine Valley Country Club (outside Philly, in New Jersey) which is considered the best course in America (if not the world) that never hosts events because their way of creating exclusiveness and value is by having their country club be incorporated as a town (with a mayor and police department) and to never let people place the course except for very famous and powerful guests… who even then it takes a while before they can play.

Point is… I doubt the Country Club members will complain.

My point is though that because it’s a country club with people coming and going it is more complicated and costly to secure.

 

[Corki]

Part of running a licensed business is following the law. Laws change. Price of doing business.

I don’t disagree. I was responding to the person who said, if you don’t like the legislative environment, don’t open a business there. In these cases, they already had a business. They did not make a choice to open a business in a toxic environment.

I find it sad that posters on a Catholic site find no compassion for a business owner being driven out and cut off from their livelihood, often by someone who was never even a legitimate customer but who targetted the business to try to “out” them as Christians. These “customers” were not harmed in any way since in virtually every case, there were numerous alternatives available to them.

 

[Sy_Noe]

I don’t disagree. I was responding to the person who said, if you don’t like the legislative environment, don’t open a business there. In these cases, they already had a business. They did not make a choice to open a business in a toxic environment.

I find it sad that posters on a Catholic site find no compassion for a business owner being driven out and cut off from their livelihood, often by someone who was never even a legitimate customer but who targetted the business to try to “out” them as Christians. These “customers” were not harmed in any way since in virtually every case, there were numerous alternatives available to them.

Speaking of compassion on a Catholic site for those being cut from their livelihood, Trump’s Mar-a-Lago visits are hurting business, companies say. Having an economic impact of about $27 million annually and 200 employees, many of them making about $30,000 a year, aren’t getting paid.

cbsnews.com/news/trumps-frequent-visits-are-hurting-say-small-business-owners-near-mar-a-lago/

 

[lmachine]

Speaking of compassion on a Catholic site for those being cut from their livelihood, Trump’s Mar-a-Lago visits are hurting business, companies say. Having an economic impact of about $27 million annually and 200 employees, many of them making about $30,000 a year, aren’t getting paid.

cbsnews.com/news/trumps-frequent-visits-are-hurting-say-small-business-owners-near-mar-a-lago/

Yeah, it’s really bizarre for a guy who campaigned against Obama’s supposed negative effect on small business and criticized him for playing golf to spend his weekends negatively affecting small business by playing golf.

 

[Sy_Noe]

It is rather harsh to say that a business has to close completely or uproot to another state.

Sorry I know this is breaking a promise I made about posting on this thread but when I read this, a few things came to mind. I’m not sure any harsher than telling a non Catholic woman who needs contraceptive coverage for medical reasons but who is employed by a Catholic employer to completely uproot and go find another job. Or telling a woman or man who has never aborted but who has built up a trust with PP for healthcare services, to go somewhere else. Or Donald Trump saying on 60 Minutes than SSM is a settled issue but Roe v Wade is not and if a woman’s state outlaws abortion, she can just go to another state.

 

[Corki]

Sorry I know this is breaking a promise I made about posting on this thread but when I read this, a few things came to mind. I’m not sure any harsher than telling a non Catholic woman who needs contraceptive coverage for medical reasons but who is employed by a Catholic employer to completely uproot and go find another job…

You are leaving out the other two options she has - she can either pay for BC herself of abstain. Taking hormonal supplements for medical reasons, even those pills marketed as BC, has been covered by any health plan that covers prescriptions for at least 30 years.

Or telling a woman or man who has never aborted but who has built up a trust with PP for healthcare services, to go somewhere else.

I don’t even understand this one. If a woman chooses to go to anther clinic besides PP, isn’t that her choice? No one is trying to keep women out of PP, only to keep taxpayers from funding PP.

Or Donald Trump saying on 60 Minutes than SSM is a settled issue but Roe v Wade is not and if a woman’s state outlaws abortion, she can just go to another state.

Isn’t that what already happens when some procedure or commodity isn’t available in a state? If I want to buy pot for “health” reasons, I have to go to another state.

None of your examples are of someone having to close their business or lose their livelihood.

 

[phil19034]

I’m not even sure how we got to this in regard to the Trump’s elaborate lifestyle and travel costs. But just to reply to you and Phil… Roe v Wade actually restricts abortion on demand. It is on demand for the first trimester then the states can and have placed restrictions on the procedure. I trust you and the Catholics here who speak of religious freedom do not mean only for your own religions but for all people of faith. There are Christian denominations whose beliefs allow at least abortion choice in cases. As well as denominations coming to an evolving understanding of marriage.

In regard to euthanasia, I’m less of an expert on Christian denominational perspectives, but I did find this from a few yrs ago.

The Presbyterian Church U.S.A. has examined theological questions related to end-of-life issues, but the denomination has not taken specific positions or provided guidance on assisted suicide or euthanasia.

The United Church of Christ supports the right of terminally ill patients to make their own decisions about when to die – including whether to hasten death. This position is in keeping with broader church teachings that stress the importance of respecting individual conscience and choice, according to the Rev. Timothy Tutt, a senior minister at Westmoreland Congregational United Church of Christ in Bethesda, Md. “We believe that each of us approaches God on our own terms, and this includes at the end of our lives,” he says.

pewforum.org/2013/11/21/religious-groups-views-on-end-of-life-issues/

Some may even support contraceptives being covered for women’s health care since sometimes they are prescribed for medical conditions. The Little Sisters who Phil brought up and others who employ non Catholics were given the opportunity to sign a form and opt-out of the mandate and coverage would have been provided for these women by the insurers or plan administrators.

I don’t pretend to have all the answers. But balancing rights in a society of plural beliefs as well as non beliefs is not always something I find as simple or easy as we sometimes may think. Pleasing everyone is not always an easy thing to do. That’s my opinion and I won’t be replying further to abortion, SSM, euthanasia, religious liberty on this thread. Peace.

Abortion isn’t a religious issue, it’s a human rights issue.

Abortion and euthanasia are both murder.

If a pagan religion started sacrificing virgins (even if the virgin volunteered), we would not allow it due to religious differences. We would consider it murder.

Abortion and euthanasia are scientifically the killing of another human, with human DNA, for the benefit of others.

They are both cold, calculated murder. Period. For goodness sakes, there are ATHEISTS who believe abortion and euthanasia are murder. Saying that abortion & euthanasia is murder isn’t a religious belief, it’s a fact of science.

The Church simply states the TRUTH and the TRUTH is that Abortion and Euthanasia are both MURDER.

Any Catholic who can find a way to justify abortion and euthanasia needs to get to confession right away. And any non-Catholic who believes in God better ask for God’s forgiveness right away too.

NOTE: I will not respond to any posts negating what I have posted here, as I do not want to further sidebar this thread.

God Bless

 

[phil19034]

So you think nearly 50% of Catholic voters were not conscientious?

I would not say “conscientious” because many have improperly formed conscience.

Fact is, 50% or more of Catholic voters are either (1) not properly educated in the Catholic faith, (2) not evangelized, or (3) are dissents to the Church; choosing secular things and ideology before their faith.

How many Catholics do you know who have NEVER read even part of the Catechism of the Catholic Church? How many have NEVER read the complete New Testament? How many have never even picked up and read from the Bible? How many never say Grace before each meal? How many go to bed without praying? How many have never prayed the Rosary or Chaplet of Divine Mercy? How many have never gone to Confession since their First Holy Communion or Confirmation? How many don’t know that skipping Mass is objectively a Mortal Sin? How many eat meat on Fridays during Lent? How many have sex outside of marriage? How many use birth control? How many get abortions? How many marry outside the Church? How many get a divorce and then remarry?

So yes, 50% or more of Catholics have an improperly formed conscience.

God Bless

 

[phil19034]

Yes, because churches have special protections. Places of public accommodation on the other hand do not.

“Places of public accommodation” huh? So EWTN isn’t allowed to practice what they preach? Little Sisters of the Poor isn’t allowed to practice what they preach? Christendom College isn’t allowed to practice what it preaches? Catholic Answers isn’t allowed to practice what it preaches?

I’m sorry, but non-Catholics and dissent Catholics do not have to work for apostles and mysteries that are faithful to the Magisterium of the Catholic Church.

People who don’t want to follow Catholic teaching can get a job elsewhere. No one is forcing them to work for a Catholic agency or attend a Catholic school. When you take a job with a Catholic agency, college or school; you should understand that you are EXPECTED to follow Catholic teaching and not cause scandal.

If Planned Parenthood (or whichever abortion facility it was) was allowed to fire “Jane Roe” because she would try to convince women not to receive an abortion, then Catholic non-profits, Catholic Schools, Catholic Colleges and Catholic Health Care groups have the RIGHT to enforce their teachings.

The Constitution grants us Freedom of Religion… not that watered down, so called “Freedom of Worship” that people in Europe have. We have Freedom of Religion, which grants us the right to practice our religion in public without fear from the Government.

 

[phil19034]

My point is though that because it’s a country club with people coming and going it is more complicated and costly to secure.

maybe the first time… but after a while, they will have it down pat. I would think it’s far more costly to secure different places each time.

But again, Trump is hardly the first President to do this.

 

[phil19034]

“Haunt”? Lol how. Majority of Americans support gay marriage, and you are not “contributing to an act of sin” - you’re literally just baking a cake.

So then why is it legal to refuse to bake a “I hate {enter minority group here} cake”?

According to Catholic teaching, you are participating in their sin by helping. It’s even a sin for a Catholic to attend a gay wedding, even if it’s their own child. It’s also a sin to attend a non-Catholic wedding if the Catholic did not receive dispensation first.

I have heard Father Serpa from Catholic Answers tell a parent that it they should not attend their own child’s wedding because they were not getting married in the Catholic Church (or didn’t receive dispensation).

So yes, it is sinful. Now, it most likely is not a grave sin and not a mortal sin; but at the very least it IS objectively a venial sin.

God Bless