Trump launches military strike against Syria

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I don’t know who’s suggesting that gas attacks are OK. What I find pretty frightening is how quickly all of this happened. Accusation to guilty verdict to military action in less than 3 days.
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                                           As for the future. If we see the ties to Russia investigations fizzle out while a number of the President's proposed core policies begin to change, we'll have a pretty good idea what's happened here.
If someone was attacking your government, murdering Syrian Orthodox and Chaldean Catholic Christians alike and selling sex slaves, gas them by all means. The rebels are terrorists just like Mujihadeen and Taliban are one and the same thing.
 
If someone was attacking your government, murdering Syrian Orthodox and Chaldean Catholic Christians alike and selling sex slaves, gas them by all means. The rebels are terrorists just like Mujihadeen and Taliban are one and the same thing.
I’m inclined to doubt the children and babies killed and maimed were Islamic radicals. Besides, Assad’s war is not only against the Islamic radicals. It’s against non-radical groups as well. He’s an equal opportunity killer.
 
In all likelyhood, it was the terrorist group Jabhat Al-Nusra who had the gas and it was hit by government planes.
 
Hillary Clinton, the former secretary of state, gave a wide-ranging interview in New York Thursday where she called on the U.S. to carry out airstrikes on Syrian airfields in order to prevent more chemical attacks on its citizens.

"I really believe we should have and still should take out his air fields and prevent him from being able to use them to bomb innocent people and drop sarin gas on them,” Clinton made the comment during an interview with New York Times columnist Nicholas Kristof at a women’s summit.

Clinton said that she favored a more aggressive action against Assad, adding that not taking a tough stance on the Syrian president was one of her worst policy mistakes during her time as secretary of state under President Obama.

Her comments came in her first interview since losing the presidential election to Trump and hours before the U.S. launched a barrage of cruise missiles targeting a Syrian airfield in response to the deadly gas attack.

foxnews.com/politics/2017/04/07/hours-before-airstrikes-hillary-clinton-called-for-bombing-syrian-airfields.html
 
And the military intervention also sets a precedent against the use of internationally proscribed weapons of an indiscriminate nature.

It upholds international order, law and security - including US security as you say - by demonstrating that chemical weapons use and proliferation, in violation of international conventions, has repercussions for offending states.
What kind of precedent of any significance does it set? I hate this opportunistic moralizing about the use of chemical weapons (if such an attack even occurred). Hundreds of people have already died in the conflict, including many at the hands of the US. Over 200 civilians were killed by US airstrikes during the western-backed Mosul operation, and nobody cared then. Why does the US suddenly care that immoral means are being employed by Assad, and civilians are being harmed? Clearly this isn’t about morality or fighting immoral forms of warfare. It’s just an excuse to secure US imperialist interests.
 
Oh good lord, man! Please, tell me all about the oil the United States plundered from Iraq. That’s a war crime.
Its not about plundering oil but keeping the petrodollar system alive. Even if the US did take oil it isn’t a war crime because the US did it and of course would have had a good justification for so doing. That’s the great thing about being on top militarily. You can just make up excuses for anything and no one can stop you.
 
**Big mistake. **:mad:
Yes. Trump now appears to want a US war against Syria. And if that turns out to be the case, then it means Trump is wholly dishonest, the worst type of liar. That’s not uncharitable, it’s simply a fact. I can provide dozens of direct quotes from Donald Trump before he was elected, in which he specifically says (endlessly) that war with Syria is wrong and a mistake and a waste of lives. It was one of his biggest criticisms of both Obama and Hillary, and he positioned himself as almost a pacifist. If that changes, it means he lied his way into office. The quotes are starkly black and white, and if anyone wants a good sampler list please just let me know.

So, now we have Assad and Putin saying repeatedly that Syria had nothing to do with this chemical attack, while in the West, we have the New York TimesMichael R. Gordon saying precisely the opposite. Bloodthirsty. Calling for War. This is the very same Michael R. Gordon who convinced Americans that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction and must be invaded. To be perfectly blunt, I am nauseous even thinking of this guy’s propaganda and it’s power. He’s the West’s chief-propagandist. For any Catholic who thinks they have the stomach for it, simply put “New York Times Michael R. Gordon” into a search engine.

It’s already been decided, apparently written in stone: this chemical attack is the pretext for war.

And they’re rolling out the gory photos of dead and mutilated children, just as they always do before a US war.

And again, depressing and disheartening and Satanic though it all is, pay absolute attention to Michael R. Gordon’s tireless propaganda and pro-war efforts. These things always manifest first in the pages of the New York Times, before they translate into total war in some faraway place.

…so be wise as serpents and innocent as doves…

God help us.
 
Sure they did. That’s why we bombed it.
Donald Trump demonstrated that he, unlike his predecessor Barack Obama - who was weakened in his position by the British Parliament and his own, perfectly understandable, multilateral instincts - is not only capable of drawing a “red line” but is prepared to punish those who cross it.

I respect that, over and above the moral certitude and international security imperatives underlying this intervention, I really do.

Trump seems to be more of a unilateral actor rather than a multilateral one like Obama, who always relied on consensus from US allies and never exerted American strength in its own right, for its own purpose and strategic goals.

I never understood “Make America Great Again”, nor did I like the nativist-tinged nostalgia and nationalism - or Trump’s often uncouth and insufferable way of speaking as well as conducting himself - but if this is what it amounts to in the foreign policy realm, acting in defence of American values - which are human values - when the need be grave and manifest, unilaterally if required, then I’m all for it.
 
Donald Trump demonstrated that he, unlike his predecessor Barack Obama - who was weakened in his position by the British Parliament and his own, perfectly understandable, multilateral instincts - is not only capable of drawing a “red line” but is prepared to punish those who cross it.

I respect that, over and above the moral certitude and international security imperatives underlying this intervention, I really do.

I never understood “Make America Great Again”, nor did I like the nativist-tinged nostalgia and nationalism, but if this is what it amounts to in the foreign policy realm then I’m all for it.
An escalation of imperialist intervention in the Middle East? Why oppose nationalism if you’re going to support pointless and destructive imperialist efforts like this?

Also, what possible “moral certitude” could have inspired this considering the fact that the US has been responsible for the deaths of so many innocents in the Middle East, such as the air strike in Mosul which killed 200 civilians? Considering the USA’s own terrible record, I really doubt morality is the main driving force here. Supposed moral outrage against the supposed use of chemical weapons is just an excuse for actions such as this.
 
An escalation of imperialist intervention in the Middle East? Why oppose nationalism if you’re going to support pointless and destructive imperialist efforts like this?

Also, what possible “moral certitude” could have inspired this considering the fact that the US has been responsible for the deaths of so many innocents in the Middle East, such as the air strike in Mosul which killed 200 civilians? Considering the USA’s own terrible record, I really doubt morality is the main driving force here. Supposed moral outrage against the supposed use of chemical weapons is just an excuse for actions such as this.
This is not seen as an “imperialist venture” in Europe.

I’m decent barometer of European feeling and with most folk, Trump’s principled justification for intervening - whether he meant it or not in essence - has gone down well:

bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-39531339
President Trump said he took the decision to launch a strike based on humanitarian grounds, after seeing images of gassed children. Whether it is true or not, such an attitude will earn him support in Europe, where such considerations are important. That’s bad news for Moscow.
Mr Putin doesn’t like - and doesn’t know how to talk about - “values”. He prefers “interests”.
 
This is not seen as an “imperialist venture” in Europe.

I’m decent barometer of European feeling and with most folk, Trump’s principled justification for intervening - whether he meant it or not in essence - has gone down well:

bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-39531339
I am a European. I am from the UK. I don’t care about public opinion - public opinion does not determine what is true, or determine what the actual motive for this strike was. Do you think the US had a similar “principled justification” for killing those civilians in Mosul? Do you think they are equally principled in supporting the Saudis in their attempts to starve 13 million people in Yemen? In Yemen the Saudis use outlawed cluster munitions against schools and hospitals which are sold to the Saudis by British and US companies. Is that principled?

It’s naive to think that this is being done out of moral outrage or for the sake of setting clear limits in warfare. The purpose of this attack was for the US to assert their imperial interests and imperial dominance in the Middle East, to prove that they aren’t yet “out of the game.” US imperialism has been responsible for more deaths and destruction than any other force, and the escalation of US imperialism in Syria is not a force for good.
 
What’s interesting about this is that in one deft move, it not only signals to the Syrians (and other potential antagonists to U.S. interests) that certain actions are beyond the pale, but it also domestically removes the appearance or suspicion that Trump is beholden to the Russians or that he is an isolationist. Or that he doesn’t have a heart or a sense of decency. Or that he is being controlled by his advisors. I’m not sure how it affects the long term outcome in Syria, but it certainly puts President Trump in a new light.
 
Rudolph Giuliani who represents the interests of a the Jewish community of New York (they were the ones to put him in power to begin with) has chosen to stay in the background - and I smell him cashing in on his support for Trump. Maybe Trump did not accept contribution but he did sold out to Israel. In doing so, he gave away his international relations control. Sick.
I did not think this was possible here----but yes----more anti-Zionist c—p.

Since the Jews “control” everything, I guess it is now clear that they engineered this to finally get rid of Assad.

I don’t condone everything that the IDF does and I am for a Palestinian homeland alongside Israel but to add Israel into everything regardless of the lack of obvious evidence that there is is just bad. Somebody has been reading the Protocols of the Elders of Zion one too many times. 🤷

Sigh. :rolleyes:
 
Donald Trump demonstrated that he, unlike his predecessor Barack Obama - who was weakened in his position by the British Parliament and his own, perfectly understandable, multilateral instincts - is not only capable of drawing a “red line” but is prepared to punish those who cross it.

I respect that, over and above the moral certitude and international security imperatives underlying this intervention, I really do.

Trump seems to be more of a unilateral actor rather than a multilateral one like Obama, who always relied on consensus from US allies and never exerted American strength in its own right, for its own purpose and strategic goals.

I never understood “Make America Great Again”, nor did I like the nativist-tinged nostalgia and nationalism - or Trump’s often uncouth and insufferable way of speaking as well as conducting himself - but if this is what it amounts to in the foreign policy realm, acting in defence of American values - which are human values - when the need be grave and manifest, unilaterally if required, then I’m all for it.
Let’s be clear about what Trump is prepared to do. He is prepared to give an order to launch missiles from miles away to kill whatever happens to be at their destination. He is prepared to use taxpayer money to fund this. He may be prepared to send other people’s boys off to die in the Middle East. None of this demonstrates any measure of strength or courage. None of it is a personal sacrifice.

The idea that Obama was too weak to give the same orders to kill is ridiculous since he so often did exactly that. Some of us voted for Trump precisely because he decried the ‘we same, we saw, he died’ followed by maniacal laughter policy of Obama/Clinton.
 
I did not think this was possible here----but yes----more anti-Zionist c—p.

Since the Jews “control” everything, I guess it is now clear that they engineered this to finally get rid of Assad.

I don’t condone everything that the IDF does and I am for a Palestinian homeland alongside Israel but to add Israel into everything regardless of the lack of obvious evidence that there is is just bad. Somebody has been reading the Protocols of the Elders of Zion one too many times. 🤷

Sigh. :rolleyes:
I agree. No more Jew-bashing, Abba (which incidentally is Hebrew for ‘Daddy’). Seek help.
 
I am a European. I am from the UK
I know you are, which is is why I raised that point. Most people over here respect the decision he took, even though we don’t care for him as a man. 🙂

I hate to admit it, but I agree with him in this situation. I’m not alone either. The leader of the Liberal Democrats, Tim Farron, the most pro-EU politician in Britain, has backed Trump publicly over this.

We live in strange times.
Do you think they are equally principled in supporting the Saudis in their attempts to starve 13 million people in Yemen? In Yemen the Saudis use outlawed cluster munitions against schools and hospitals which are sold to the Saudis by British and US companies. Is that principled?
No country or group of people is ever entirely principled all of the time.

That does not negate the fact that this particular action was principled and logical and limited and effective.
It’s naive to think that this is being done out of moral outrage or for the sake of setting clear limits in warfare. The purpose of this attack was for the US to assert their imperial interests and imperial dominance in the Middle East, to prove that they aren’t yet “out of the game.” US imperialism has been responsible for more deaths and destruction than any other force, and the escalation of US imperialism in Syria is not a force for good.
The U.S. is both asserting its right to be a moral arbiter in the Middle East and projecting, as well as protecting, its own interests. That’s how a benevolent superpower operates. Realpolitik, with its machiavellian logic when required, and values.

The two aims are not irreconcilable but work in harmony.

Interests and values, not merely interests at the expense of values as with “some”.
 
Any so-called Christian who supports these Zionist land thieves is a traitor. The Lebanese Phalange were such traitors.
Where should the Jews go if their state does not deserve to exist?

And if they stay, what should their state be converted into? 🤷
 
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