Trump or Hillary?

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ManOnFire said:
Both parties are not dissimilar.

Hillary/Bernie are socialists, which is code for demotivation to work to pay tax revenues to support unknown others. Socialism has never worked in the 500 years since it was invented.

We need to examine the root causes of Motivation.

The solution is to lower taxes to stimulate the economy and preserve the innocence of our youth by creating a romantic conservative society that will preserve their innocence and encourage them to have no more than 2 kids so the progressive atheists will call off the liberal behaviors that are designed to serve as a form of birth control to limit population growth. Create pockets where the liberal hedonists can be free, out of view of those under age 21.
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I know this is not a popular statement; but we need government and we need taxes. We just need a government that is representative of all its citizens and that it is prudent with the money it receives. We have a debt that is quickly nearing twenty trillion dollars! Now is not the time to give away money that we do not have by reducing taxes.

You talk of “socialism” like you never have taken advantages of available resources to you (I am assuming you live within the United States)? Yes, I agree there are waste and those need to be dealt with in a stringent manner. The reality is that we cannot afford to provide more services. Yet, services such as healthcare is a growing concern within our society. We need to take personal responsibility on the issue. But the reality is that health services are unreachable for many Americans.

An unregulated society has only lead to greed and corruption. Unfortunately, even big business runs to the government when they are in trouble.

Responsible behavior? I suggest you go back and read Genesis; we have been misbehaving for since the beginning of time. God fearing people just need to do a better job of conveying the message of morality and quit blaming others for faults we help create.
 
Leo2014 said:
I know this is not a popular statement; but we need government and we need taxes. We just need a government that is representative of all its citizens and that it is prudent with the money it receives. We have a debt that is quickly nearing twenty trillion dollars! Now is not the time to give away money that we do not have by reducing taxes.

You talk of “socialism” like you never have taken advantages of available resources to you (I am assuming you live within the United States)? Yes, I agree there are waste and those need to be dealt with in a stringent manner. The reality is that we cannot afford to provide more services. Yet, services such as healthcare is a growing concern within our society. We need to take personal responsibility on the issue. But the reality is that health services are unreachable for many Americans.

An unregulated society has only lead to greed and corruption. Unfortunately, even big business runs to the government when they are in trouble.

Responsible behavior? I suggest you go back and read Genesis; we have been misbehaving for since the beginning of time. God fearing people just need to do a better job of conveying the message of morality and quit blaming others for faults we help create.
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Money is debt. The debt doesn’t matter. It’s circular. Life goes on no matter what the numbers say, it’s the rate of turnover that counts the most. The more Confidence the public has to take out loans to buy and build stuff, the more jobs these payments creates for Others, who turn around and spend it, creating even more jobs for Others, and the circular economy booms. Motivations begins with Confidence. BUT, people aren’t Motivated by Socialism when they know that they are on the collectivist hook to pay for more and more than their fair share. People will assume risk and sacrifice to help those they love, but not for perfect strangers who use free will to engage in less-responsible behavior. If you were the Pope and you commanded me to pay twice as much in taxes because I have enough on which to live, I would instead elect to work half as much (de-motivation) instead of paying twice as much in taxes. We don’t live in a vacuum.
I’m saying that we don’t need the “more” socialism of Hillary/Bernie because to quote Margaret Thatcher, “Sooner or later, you run out of Other People’s Money.”
 
ManOnFire said:
Money is debt. The debt doesn’t matter. It’s circular. Life goes on no matter what the numbers say, it’s the rate of turnover that counts the most.
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I don’t mean to sound offensive; but where did you receive your economics education? Very little of what you are stating makes sense. Yet, it explains the lack of understanding that many people have towards financial responsibility. As Christian people, we should have an obligation to stay out of debt, but if we find ourselves owing money, we need to be committed to reconciling what we have taken. Therefore, our principals should matter because it is how others will judge us.

I apologize again, but your “socialism” rant is a little incoherent, you seem to think that I should measure my level of motivation by yours. That is simply not the case. As utopian as it sounds, healthcare for everyone is a wonderful concept. However, the cost are too high for many Americans and simply passing the cost to the tax payer in the form of increasing debt will not solve the problem within the system. Therefore, I agree with you that we do not have the means to provide everyone with services that we cannot pay.

One problem that people do not seem to understand is that our government wrongly helps those that should not receive their help. Banks are a good example. The largest banks are now at lease thirty percent larger than before the financial crises. Even during the crises many of them felt no remorse in providing their workers with huge bonuses with money they receive from you…thanks to your tax dollars!
 
pianistclare said:
We have a house in Europe.
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Hi,
Trump is prolife now. He is paying his own bills and owes no one favors. I agree w a moritorium on Muslim immigration. You have to say Muslims because we can’t vet them yet to know if they are terrorists yet. We need the telephones tapped again. No one listens. It is a computer set to pick up words like ISIS OR ISIL or when the names of known terrorists are used. Then, the computer pulls those emails out. You’ve watched NCIS, FORENSIC SHOWS. When looking for a match, those computers move. Trump stated this would be temporary until the vetting system was fixed.
Trump could use a filter on his mouth. He stated that Carson was an okay doctor. He made a fool of himself insulting, John McCain, saying he was a
Loser because he got caught. He said something about Mexicans or Bush’s wife and wouldn’t apologize. He is correct on some illegals are criminals, etc. Some are good people. They still need to be legal. Sanctuary cities need to go.
All republicans are prolife. All will build a wall and legalize aliens. They will increase electrical monitoring devices and border patrol guards. Amnesty is the big question.
Terrorism =all want Arab countries fighting their fight. Trump said, I think, the Russians are fighting here, let them. The Russians want to keep Assad in. We are supporting the rebels who want Assad out. So, Russia bombs North where we are and we are bombing South where the Caliphate is.
Who will take Assad’s place when he is gone.
But, all the candidates will have a cabinet of advisors.
Now, Bush is Catholic. HE was a Governor of Fla,. And balanced their bòoks. He will build a wall but is kinder on immigration since his wife is Mexican.
7 Generals are backing him. He will be strong on ISIS. He will be promilitary. I believe he wants to improve things with the Vets.
Trump spoke passionately about the military and the Vets. Carly Forina has done well. Knows money. She and Trump know international leaders because they’ve done business with them.
Carson is running because he doesn’t like the way the country is going. He will revise Obama care as he is a smart doctor. He will fight ISIS because genicide is occurring involving Christians and Catholics. He’ll build a wall. He is concerned about the debt and will put someone in who can add. He wants a flat tax at 10%. That will hurt. We make $60,000.with retirement and social security. That means we pay $6000.00. We got a refund last year. TrumP wants to tax anyone over, I forget the actual number, $200,000.00 Anyone under that doesn’t have to pay. So we are fortunate that all candidates are prolife. It is not just Trump or Hillary.
Lord, give us wisdom on election day. Jesus stand beside us and guide us,
Thank you Lord
In Christ’s love
Tweedlealice 🤷
 
Joe_5859 said:
That doesn’t mean that 40% want Trump to be president, only that 40% would take him over Clinton. That’s not really saying too much. 😛
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There’s a difference between the two? :ehh:

There is no lesser of the two evils here.

They are both equal, different, but equal nonetheless.

Don’t vote for either.
 
Leo2014 said:
I don’t mean to sound offensive; but where did you receive your economics education? Very little of what you are stating makes sense. Yet, it explains the lack of understanding that many people have towards financial responsibility. As Christian people, we should have an obligation to stay out of debt, but if we find ourselves owing money, we need to be committed to reconciling what we have taken. Therefore, our principals should matter because it is how others will judge us.

I apologize again, but your “socialism” rant is a little incoherent, you seem to think that I should measure my level of motivation by yours. That is simply not the case. As utopian as it sounds, healthcare for everyone is a wonderful concept. However, the cost are too high for many Americans and simply passing the cost to the tax payer in the form of increasing debt will not solve the problem within the system. Therefore, I agree with you that we do not have the means to provide everyone with services that we cannot pay.

One problem that people do not seem to understand is that our government wrongly helps those that should not receive their help. Banks are a good example. The largest banks are now at lease thirty percent larger than before the financial crises. Even during the crises many of them felt no remorse in providing their workers with huge bonuses with money they receive from you…thanks to your tax dollars!
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We went off the gold standard in 1971 and exploded fractional reserve banking. Wink wink. You complain about it. Maybe you don’t understand.

I’m not talking about my opinion or yours singularly. I’m talking big picture. “The Machine” is grinding down the people. Those who want to “help” frequently run to the polls to unwittingly vote for more power to The Machine, and the cycle worsens instead of improving. Please stop.
 
Pat_Payne said:
If it’s a choice between Trump and Hillary, I choose moving to Yugoslavia, or Outer Volta, or Outremer, or Trebizond or Yamato and fighting extradition to my last dying breath 😃
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I am like you, but I’ll just settle on being apolitical on this one. 😛
 
ManOnFire said:
We went off the gold standard in 1971 and exploded fractional reserve banking. Wink wink. You complain about it. Maybe you don’t understand.

I’m not talking about my opinion or yours singularly. I’m talking big picture. “The Machine” is grinding down the people. Those who want to “help” frequently run to the polls to unwittingly vote for more power to The Machine, and the cycle worsens instead of improving. Please stop.
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We needed to go off the Gold Standard. Our economy has grown too complex for us to have remain on the standard. Most economist will agree that we are better off.

I am going to assume that by your use of the Orwellian term; “The Machine” that you are referencing Big Government, than you are correct. The debates from both parties have reference that Americans have not seen growth in their income in over ten years. However, the “growth” Americans have experience within recent decades was largely due to the cheap rates of borrowing money. Which gave the false sense of prosperity. The same thing with government, they falsely claimed economic growth when the reality was a rapid increase in borrowing.

Both parties encourage “Big Government” and the same argument can be made about us. We want services that we feel so entitled to receive; healthcare being one of the biggest. But this has led to an uncontrolled accumulation of debt is now becoming the responsibility of the next generation. Every generation complains about their hardships, but our generation has made it worse by giving our children our problems to bare on top of their own.

The problem with voting is primarily with the ever decreasing participation among our citizenry. There are plenty of complaints regarding issues, but half-hearted attempts to conduct real change…
 
Convert_in_99 said:
There’s a difference between the two? :ehh:

There is no lesser of the two evils here.

They are both equal, different, but equal nonetheless.

Don’t vote for either.
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Huh?

HRC: pro gay so called marriage, pro-abortion, pro raising taxes AGAIN

DT: pro marriage, pro-life, pro lowering taxes.

Sure looks like an easy choice to me
 
I also think it is absolutely legitimate to compare Trump to Hitler, following his comments on forcing Muslims, including 3rd or 4th generation Americans, to register themselves - ala the “JUDE” badge in Nazi Germany.
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Actually, it was Democrat presidents who push Japanese-Americans in camps, persecuted German-speaking people in America, banned Japanese and German and Italians from immigrating to the US during WWII and banned Iranians in the 1970s.
I further think that comparing the GOP in general to nazis is legitimate, given their rampant nationalism and use of nationalistic rhetoric. I would compare even moderate or benign, thoughtless nationalism to Nazism since, in extreme social conditions, empty patriotism generally evolved into far-right sympathies.
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It is not legitimate. It is impossible from a political science POV for a small-government conservative to be a NAZI.

Additionally, many NAZIS were atheists, whereas the American left keeps complaining how the GOP is too religious.
 
Luigi_Daniele said:
Huh?

HRC: pro gay so called marriage, pro-abortion, pro raising taxes AGAIN

DT: pro marriage, pro-life, pro lowering taxes.

Sure looks like an easy choice to me
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Without question. 👍👍 Most of the rest is just a side-show.
 
LeafByNiggle said:
According to Cardinal Ratzinger’s words, one may do so for proportionate reasons. I think having the only alternative be a madman who I believe world lead the nation to certain disintegration is a valid proportionate reason. You better pray that Trump is not the nominee.
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It’s sad when Catholics pull out their “okay to vote pro abortion” card. If Catholics voted pro life, there would be no abortion in this country. Your excuse is killing others.
 
This would definitely require “hold my nose” voting but I would have to vote for Trump in this case for two reasons. 1) a Republican controlled House and Senate could actually get some bills signed without a perpetual veto struggle and 2) Supreme Court nominations, while not guaranteed, are more likely to be Constitutional than progressive.
 
SuperLuigi said:
It is not legitimate. It is impossible from a political science POV for a small-government conservative to be a NAZI.

Additionally, many NAZIS were atheists, whereas the American left keeps complaining how the GOP is too religious.
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This is another fallacy that Republicans like to proclaim. When was the last time you remember one that reduced the size of government? Please don’t mention someone that lived way back before our current era.

The reality is that both parties like to spend.
 
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