Trump or Hillary?

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GaryTaylor said:
Yes there is and morally too. He stated he couldn’t morally support someone like Trump but he morally took his endorsement. In fact he stated he would have morally took “anyones”. I wonder if that meant David Duke too? Anyone is in fact anyone and morally speaking thats a hyp ocrite. :cool:
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Let’s remember what the word “hypocrite” means. It means “a person who claims or pretends to have certain beliefs about what is right but who behaves in a way that disagrees with those beliefs”. To prove hypocrisy you need to show Romney is guilty of something that he accused Trump of doing. You have not done it.
 
mary_bobo said:
Are you aware that the GOP did send bills to the president who promptly vetoed them? What do you suggest they do since you think the GOP House and Senate did nothing>
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Or that during the 4 years with a GOP House and a Dem Senate, the Dem Senate refused to even consider probably like 80% of the bills the GOP House sent them, or that the Dems in the Senate now have a large enough minority to filibuster every single GOP initiative?

Seriously, the problem right now is more the hyper-polarization of the parties (and Americans) more than anything else. In the legislatures (both federal and state), the majority party (whether GOP or Dem) must realize that it needs ample support from the minority party to be able to pass anything. Unfortunately, getting the support needed from the minority party infuriates the base. And so, sometimes, the majority party in the House often passes something that they know will never get taken up by the Senate - just to score political points with their base voters.

Of course, part of the reason for the hyperpolarization is that the majority of Americans get their news opinions today primarily from sources that they personally agree with. Liberals/Progressives can put themselves in a shell where they only hear/see/read news & opinions from Liberal/Progressive sites such as HuffPost, DailyKos, MoveOn, etc. Conservatives can put themselves in a shell where they only get their news and opinions from FoxNews, RedState, the Drudge Report, etc. And the thing is, if a person goes to a message board and posts a story that doesn’t come from a site that aligns with the majority tilt of the message board, the story is maligned. And of course, the vast majority of Congressmen and Congresswomen have much tougher primary battles than general election battles, which increases polarization in Congress and decreases the likelyhood of anything actually being done in Congress.

The GOP base often believes that the people that they elected to Congress have capitulated too much to the President. Of course, the Dem base believes the exact opposite - that the President has capitulated too much to Congress. And a lot of Independents just wish that the two sides would stop this political posturing and get something done.
 
GaryTaylor said:
Yes there is and morally too. He stated he couldn’t morally support someone like Trump but he morally took his endorsement. In fact he stated he would have morally took “anyones”. I wonder if that meant David Duke too? Anyone is in fact anyone and morally speaking thats a hypocrite. :cool:
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The guy needs to be hung for that kind of egregious behavior.
Hell fire awaits.
 
Hey, the poll is closed on this thread and I didn’t get to vote!

Lets do another one.
 
Ridgerunner said:
Because he didn’t actually call for commission of a war crime. He stated approval of what some THINK ought to be a war crime.
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No, it was. The deliberate killing of all members of a group, the combatants and their families is also called genocide. In any context except ISIS, we would all agree. He was taking the position of an African war lord, wanting to kill all members from cradle on up of the rival tribe that is ISIS. His reasons were good. His approach was morally reprehensible. It was pro-death, not pro-life. But then he came out and claimed to have reversed that position, like he did on abortion a few years ago.
queenofheartscv said:
Exactly. … A hypocrite can’t really inspire confidence, can he?
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As you said, exactly.

The idea of Trumps political positions is rather amorphous. His political history is not existent. His character is Trump-ish.
 
Darryl1958 said:
The guy needs to be hung for that kind of egregious behavior.
Hell fire awaits.
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🙂 Who Mitt> Now, now, he is only proposing an unacceptable point which flies against conservative principles of we the people but instead would prefer to force a candidate down our throats and against the apparent will of the people in his own party. Hes no different than a dictator. If Obama thought that way he might decide not to leave and extend the presidency for another term. 😉
 
Nightfly said:
They are right to be emotional. They gave the gop the house and senate and they did nothing. It may be a stereotype but it is the Democrats who rely on emotion. But let’s not get into that discussion.
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You can’t do much if the President can veto your legislation. Having the House and the Senate is not a guarantee of progress, you would need a supermajority in the Senate to override presidential vetoes.
 
LeafByNiggle said:
Let’s remember what the word “hypocrite” means. It means “a person who claims or pretends to have certain beliefs about what is right but who behaves in a way that disagrees with those beliefs”. To prove hypocrisy you need to show Romney is guilty of something that he accused Trump of doing. You have not done it.
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Sure I have perhaps not to you liking but I’m not here to live up to your expectation. As I just stated above its hypocrisy and flies against conservative principles of we the people. The point as usual is you refuse to accept any logical argument which imho is denial. Thats not a counter point its simply denial. It was very damaging to Romney and further he created a moral double standard with rejecting Trump morally and yet accepting his endorsement, he really is making no sense and is a hypocrite. And no I don’t have to prove Romney is guilty of of something he accused Trumpo of doing as they are not mutually exclusive to hypocrisy in general. You must be under the weather as this doesn’t seem to be up to your usual standards of logical thinking. 🤷
 
ChristianDude said:
I get it too, but I feel like a lot of people support Trump out of emotion rather than wit.
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Agreed. But the Republican Party has really been shifting a lot over the last decade. I wonder if it might split into two separate parties - one that remains truly Ted Cruz conservative and one that backs away from historically social conservative views (abortion/same sex marriage) and focuses on trying different things based on strong emotion - more populist, more Trump-like.

I really have no idea where all of this will wind up, but I am certain that after this election (particularly if Trump wins the nomination and I have no doubt right now that he will win the nomination), nothing will ever be the same in the Republican Party again.
 
GaryTaylor said:
Sure I have perhaps not to you liking but I’m not here to live up to your expectation. As I just stated above its hypocrisy and flies against conservative principles of we the people. The point as usual is you refuse to accept any logical argument which imho is denial. Thats not a counter point its simply denial. It was very damaging to Romney and further he created a moral double standard with rejecting Trump morally and yet accepting his endorsement, he really is making no sense and is a hypocrite. And no I don’t have to prove Romney is guilty of of something he accused Trumpo of doing as they are not mutually exclusive to hypocrisy in general. You must be under the weather as this doesn’t seem to be up to your usual standards of logical thinking. 🤷
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Romney wants a brokered convention, which will only help Hillary. Hypocrisy is perhaps the kindest word to describe what he’s doing.
 
4 people that would not vote for Hillary (if they were still alive): Christopher Stevens, Sean Smith, Glen Doherty, and Tyron Woods
 
queenofheartscv said:
Romney wants a brokered convention, which will only help Hillary. Hypocrisy is perhaps the kindest word to describe what he’s doing.
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Yeah, and its a path which flies against we the people and put the election in the hands of those who in fact don’t like either leading candidate in Trump or Cruz. I don’t see it. Like Cruz stated it will further ignite revolt and further destroy the party and give the candidacy to Clinton. Newt spoke out brilliantly on this also.

Here’s Newt though I wouldn’t promote Info Wars only the FOX video of Newt which he further elaborated on today coinciding with the awkward position of not just Trumpo but both Criz and Trump who we need admit the “establishment” as Newt agrees exists despises? Yes I think so.

infowars.com/gingrich-establishment-scared-of-trump-because-he-didnt-belong-to-secret-society/
“Well because he’s an outsider, he’s not them, he’s not part of the club, he’s uncontrollable, he hasn’t been through the initiation rites, he didn’t belong to the secret society.”
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No the stretch of the imagination from there to skull and bones is more in line with ancient aliens and so forth but nevertheless his point stands.
 
GaryTaylor said:
Yeah, and its a path which flies against we the people and put the election in the hands of those who in fact don’t like either leading candidate in Trump or Cruz. I don’t see it. Like Cruz stated it will further ignite revolt and further destroy the party and give the candidacy to Clinton. Newt spoke out brilliantly on this also.
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If Mitt Romney had come out and run, or if he had come out and endorsed a non-trump candidate, I’d give him more credit. But he has no candidate to support. The only thing he wants is never trump. Forcing his will like that on the people is very sick.
 
queenofheartscv said:
If Mitt Romney had come out and run, or if he had come out and endorsed a non-trump candidate, I’d give him more credit. But he has no candidate to support. The only thing he wants is never trump. Forcing his will like that on the people is very sick.
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He’s not forcing his will on the people, he’s expressing sentiments that are shared by many.

And I’m not understanding why it’s OK for Trump to say any thought that comes in his head but if anyone says anything else, it’s not permitted?

Trump responded to Mitt Romney exactly as Romney predicted.

“Romney ‘would’ve dropped to his knees’ if I’d asked.”

Someone who speaks like this is the best candidate for US president?

I’m starting to think he might have had a point regarding that Fifth Avenue quote from a few weeks ago.
 
queenofheartscv said:
If Mitt Romney had come out and run, or if he had come out and endorsed a non-trump candidate, I’d give him more credit. But he has no candidate to support. The only thing he wants is never trump. Forcing his will like that on the people is very sick.
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The business acronym for what Mitt did is TooT, he threw a #2 onto the Table.

Something he probably leaned in venture capital, how to disrupt a deal/negotiation in progress.
 
GaryTaylor said:
Sure I have perhaps not to you liking but I’m not here to live up to your expectation. As I just stated above its hypocrisy and flies against conservative principles of we the people. The point as usual is you refuse to accept any logical argument which imho is denial. Thats not a counter point its simply denial. It was very damaging to Romney and further he created a moral double standard with rejecting Trump morally and yet accepting his endorsement, he really is making no sense and is a hypocrite. And no I don’t have to prove Romney is guilty of of something he accused Trumpo of doing as they are not mutually exclusive to hypocrisy in general. You must be under the weather as this doesn’t seem to be up to your usual standards of logical thinking. 🤷
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Since when does taken someone’s endorsement= you think they would be a good President. Guess what it doesn’t.

The endorsement was about whether Romney would be a good President. Romney said there are a lot of people who endorsed him who he wouldn’t vote for President. A long list. Not to mention amongst those who voted for him. Trump endorsing him for President doesn’t mean Romney’s required to endorse him. Not to mention all of the Republican canidates endorsed Romney.

Plus that was four years ago. Four years ago when Trump wasn’t attacking Muslims, minorities, women. Its possible if Trump was saying those things four years ago that Romney would have chosen to be no where near him.

Romney has a vote like everyone else and he actually has an idea of working in government entails. He is merely trying to present folks with the reasons not to vote for Trump. And I think also trying to show that its not just because “he cannot be bought.”

He’s not forcing anyone and he’s not really telling people who to vote for because he is saying any of the other three guys are fine. People are free to listen or not listen at their own peril.

And as for the whole “we the people.” Trump hasn’t gotten 50% anywhere. he’s not getting the majority of votes. It’s possible that if Trump was in a Run Off with whoever too second delegates, that the Republicans as a whole would vote for guy 2. A lot of the rank and file has issues with Trump too. It’s not just the big bad establishment.

Every exit poll says Trump has deep disfavorable’s. He’s winning because the rest of the field is divided amongst the other guys. But I know a lot of Republicans and a lot of them are very unhappy with the idea of President Trump. And many are talking third party. They would take any of the other three.

So either way in reality a huge portion of the electorate is getting disfranchised because a minority is electing an unpopular guy due to the divided field.

And let’s not just forget that Rubio got the first 50 plus win in Puerto Rico.
 
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