Trump or Hillary?

[tweedlealice]

Question: Is Trump prolife? Hillary I know isn’t.
(don’t know)
mlz
(the reason I ask is that Catholics can not vote for someone that is for abortion)

Hi,
I lost my first response which gave you all the Republicans ideas. All are prolife. I don’t know why I have two soliloquies on Hillary and Benhhazi. I’ll erase one if I can figure it out. Once was enough. The Republicans are very similar. Only Trump is paying his own way and owes no one. Paul Rand is a good man and doctor but he is a liberal in Republican clothes. A few days a year, after an attack, I’d vote for him. Isolate, Stop sending money to those who hate us. He is a strong constitutionalist. He was against the Patriot Act to protect our privacy . Bush is a Catholic with years in politics. Honest man. Will owe favors from benefactors. Rubio missed meetings on terrorism and he is on the committee. Carly Forina has won debates. Has good ideas. Who couldn’t love Carson.
God give us wisdom on election day.
Let us vote as you would.
in Christ’s love
Tweedlealice

 

[Trident_H]

Sometimes. And this is just once in a while. But getting more common. Well sometimes I wonder exactly how much the Democrats paid Trump to run.

 

[aicirt]

As a Catholic, please explain to me how anyone can vote for a Democrat especially Hillary with her stand on abortion, same sex marriage etc. and her lying. Like Obama, she can’t even bring herself to say “Muslim terrorist” and supports the banning of guns. Of course, she and her husband, like so many other liberal Democrats, are more than happy to have us pay for their Secret Service detail. I cannot imagine any person in the service who would be happy to serve under a Democrat who, like Obama, wants the military to be less than what it was before WWII.

 

[DeniseNY]

As a Catholic, please explain to me how anyone can vote for a Democrat especially Hillary with her stand on abortion, same sex marriage etc. and her lying. Like Obama, she can’t even bring herself to say “Muslim terrorist” and supports the banning of guns. Of course, she and her husband, like so many other liberal Democrats, are more than happy to have us pay for their Secret Service detail. I cannot imagine any person in the service who would be happy to serve under a Democrat who, like Obama, wants the military to be less than what it was before WWII.

Mental gymnastics and pretzel logic. Stick around long enough and you’ll see it

 

[CRUSADER_KING]

If those end up being our choices, I figure we’re doomed either way.

In which case, unless I can gain support for my idea of turning Indiana into a Catholic monarchy, I’ll be moving to Japan.

Kingdom of Hoosier. Genius.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

As a Catholic, please explain to me how anyone can vote for a Democrat especially Hillary with her stand on abortion…

According to Cardinal Ratzinger’s words, one may do so for proportionate reasons. I think having the only alternative be a madman who I believe world lead the nation to certain disintegration is a valid proportionate reason. You better pray that Trump is not the nominee.

 

[aicirt]

According to Cardinal Ratzinger’s words, one may do so for proportionate reasons. I think having the only alternative be a madman who I believe world lead the nation to certain disintegration is a valid proportionate reason. You better pray that Trump is not the nominee.

What exactly would be the proportionate reasons to elect a woman who is pro abortion willing to kill babies e.g. Nazis? Explain to me how this was abhorent 70 years ago but is okay now? Tell me what you think God will say to you when you stand before Him and explain your choice?

Tell me how you justify the ending of the 2nd Amendment so all innocent people can sit like ducks in a duck shoot to appease anyone who is so naive as not to acknowledge that there is such a thing a Muslim terrorists?

Explain to me that this woman whom you supported as Secretary of State was in no way responsible for not protecting an ambassador a friend whose calls she didn’t take.

She’s proven herself to be incompetent but you would rather have her than Trump.

 

[sarah_j]

As a Catholic, please explain to me how anyone can vote for a Democrat especially Hillary with her stand on abortion, same sex marriage etc. and her lying.

According to Cardinal Ratzinger’s words, one may do so for proportionate reasons. I think having the only alternative be a madman who I believe world lead the nation to certain disintegration is a valid proportionate reason. You better pray that Trump is not the nominee.

It looks like Ratzinger said exactly the opposite… that abortion and euthanasia
outweigh other issues.
-from the link you posted:

3.** Not all moral issues have the same moral weight as abortion and euthanasia.** For example, if a Catholic were to be at odds with the Holy Father on the application of capital punishment or on the decision to wage war, he would not for that reason be considered unworthy to present himself to receive Holy Communion. While the Church exhorts civil authorities to seek peace, not war, and to exercise discretion and mercy in imposing punishment on criminals, it may still be permissible to take up arms to repel an aggressor or to have recourse to capital punishment. There may be a legitimate diversity of opinion even among Catholics about waging war and applying the death penalty, but not however with regard to abortion and euthanasia.

It’s my understanding that Catholics are not to vote for pro-abortion politicians
unless there is no pro-life person on the ballot. At that point, you can pick the
“lesser of two evils”.

 

[Cider]

Suppose that Trump wins the Republican nomination and Hillary wins the Democratic nomination. (You can discuss how likely this in in the comments, if you want; for now, just run a thought experiment with me.) Would you vote for Trump or Hillary? Would you abandon your current party or typical voting block to do so?

I don’t know, I think I’d choose not to vote. Or possibly write in who I want. I’ve held my nose in the past but there is just no way I’m voting I’m Trump or for Clinton. And before anyone tries all the a vote for no one is a vote for Clinton, I’ve heard it all over the years. I won’t be guilted into voting for Trump. It’s not going to happen. I sucked it up in the past but I won’t do it for Trump. If Republican primary voters choose Trump, then they deserve whatever outcome happens at that point. Be it Trump or Clinton. Both would be disaster IMO.

 

[stevegravy]

I always thought countries deserve the leaders they get. The other days the talking heads reported Hillary was lunching with Obama. They said it was a social visit, probably just swapping family news about the girls and maybe the weather. Yea right!!!

Maybe more like what the FBI was turning up and how the justice department will not press charges and if they do what Clinton will do to expose Obama’s skeleton’s.

Then there is Trump. If it were not for the comic value there would be no need to follow the political discussion in the country. He talks and all the good people screech and get the vapors.

Got to love it.

 

[Cider]

It is very unlikely. The Republican party would not allow Trump to be their candidate in the general election. Not going to happen. No way.

I had the same discussion with my husband about a week ago that is the topic of this thread. I find it very hard to believe that Iowa and the other early caucus states are going to support Trump. I just don’t see it. But I’ve been wrong before many times.

 

[Darryl_Revok]

Some people here have said this.
But is it so easy to uproot a family and get citizenship and a new job in a new country? Like Trump, they may not let you in…

Every election cycle, people keep popping up and say that they’ll leave the country if Bush/Obama/whoever wins.

Yet they keep hanging around. Nobody so far has the stones to do it. And really, if a person hated Hillary and her policies, which country would be more accommodating to their views? The choices are pretty slim: Russia, and perhaps a couple of other second-world hellholes or ex-dictatorships.

 

[Cider]

Some people here have said this.
But is it so easy to uproot a family and get citizenship and a new job in a new country? Like Trump, they may not let you in.

.

If you read the rest of the thread, that isn’t an issue for them. We won’t leave but my husband has dual citizenship and he could easily get citizenship in a third country through one of his parents.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

What exactly would be the proportionate reasons to elect a woman who is pro abortion willing to kill babies e.g. Nazis?

As far as I know, Trump is just as willing as Hillary to allow that to continue. I do not trust his recent “conversion”.

It looks like Ratzinger said exactly the opposite… that abortion and euthanasia
outweigh other issues.
-from the link you posted:

3.** Not all moral issues have the same moral weight as abortion and euthanasia.** For example, if a Catholic were to be at odds with the Holy Father on the application of capital punishment or on the decision to wage war, he would not for that reason be considered unworthy to present himself to receive Holy Communion. While the Church exhorts civil authorities to seek peace, not war, and to exercise discretion and mercy in imposing punishment on criminals, it may still be permissible to take up arms to repel an aggressor or to have recourse to capital punishment. There may be a legitimate diversity of opinion even among Catholics about waging war and applying the death penalty, but not however with regard to abortion and euthanasia.

This means one may not hold the view that abortion is OK. It does not say anything about voting for someone else who may think abortion is OK. This situation is more directly addressed by Cardinal Ratzinger’s note at the end of that citation:

A Catholic would be guilty of formal cooperation in evil, and so unworthy to present himself for Holy Communion, if he were to deliberately vote for a candidate precisely because of the candidate’s permissive stand on abortion and/or euthanasia. When a Catholic does not share a candidate’s stand in favour of abortion and/or euthanasia, but votes for that candidate for other reasons, it is considered remote material cooperation, which can be permitted in the presence of proportionate reasons.

When considering proportionate reasons for voting for someone, one should take into account the likely effect of having that person elected. If Trump is elected, what are the chances that he will do anything at all to limit abortion? Of course we know the chances of Hilliary doing that is zero. But I think the chances of Trump doing that is about 1%. So I weigh that with what I think is a near certainty that Trump would destroy this country. That to me is a fairly clear case of what Cardinal Ratzinger would call a proportionate reason. You may not agree with my assessment of the probabilities, but there are plenty of people who do.

 

[Path_Finder]

I in no way would ever vote for the DNC’s agenda, abortion and so on.

Values like these has led to the moral decline of our nation.

That Trump said until we have our immigration in order, temporarily we should stop allowing some immigration in no way matches such things as abortion, same-sex marriage and other evils pushed by the Democratic Party.

 

[marymary1975]

Trump.and Hillary…Neither one! That is horror movie scenario! Which one is worst!!! I only hope that that won’t be the final.candidates because for sure Hillary will win that election. Also I know several people.who won’t vote under that scenario, so the percentage of votes will be even less than usual. May God forbid that scenario. I just hope that neither one wins the nomination.

 

[marymary1975]

It is very unlikely. The Republican party would not allow Trump to be their candidate in the general election. Not going to happen. No way.

May Jesus Christ and the Virgin.Mary listen to your words.

 

[Path_Finder]

It is very unlikely. The Republican party would not allow Trump to be their candidate in the general election. Not going to happen. No way.

We certainly can expect Trump to back down, can’t we?

 

[marymary1975]

He has expressed opposition to abortion.

I don’t believe him. He has been pro abortion his entire life. Now all of a sudden, that he knows that in order to win a nomination he must align.himself with the pro life movement, has a change of heart. Sorry but I don’t buy it.

 

[Path_Finder]

Trump as a businessman may have greased the wheels of the system to push through his own interests, casinos and so on, he seems vulnerable as a man of principle but I’d still vote for him over

Those who have promoted moral decay and actively pushed abortion such as the DNC candidates, Sanger award winner Hillary Clinton or President Obama’s voting record on the issues.

Jesus and Mary certainly would not approve of the latter.

Trump never had a direct vote on these issues, through candidates, yes.

Why could Mitt Romney become fully Pro-Life and get the votes of pro-lifers and Romney was an active governor, Trump never voted for a live baby who survived abortion to be left on its own. Trump never voted in the Senate on funding Planned Parenthood.

As Christians, we are called to be charitable as well.

It is up to people’s consciences if they are so hardened against Trump, that they don’t believe what he would say and so in fact, help enable the abortion industry.

A lot of people support this evil already and apparently support Hillary but to me, it is supporting a sort of genocide yet, Trump is the one heavily criticized?