Trump or Hillary?

[Wampa]

My very liberal relative was insisting the whole country would end up like MN if Trump wins

Ah, that makes more sense then. That’s her partisan opinion, because he implemented some conservative things she didn’t like (such as returning a huge budget surplus to the people via rebates, rather than reinvesting it in government programs). She’s probably conveniently forgotten his more progressive implementations, such as pushing hard for light rail to finally be built (we had only buses until then).

I don’t think you will find any neutral observer who would say he did any long-term damage. He had a set of goals that were a mix of conservative and liberal that he wanted to push and none of them were so radical as to “destroy” us

If you’re interested, here’s an even-handed assessment of his legacy from Minnesota Public Radio: news.minnesota.publicradio.org/features/200212/17_mccalluml_venturalegacy/

Contrary to businesses fleeing the state, note that it quotes the Minnesota Chamber of Commerce as saying that the state’s “business climate is now more competitive than it was when Ventura took office, due largely to the property tax reforms and the income tax cuts pushed by Ventura.”

 

[Luigi_Daniele]

A procedural question: if HRC is indicted, do we start a new thread?

 

[Theo520]

Ah, that makes more sense then. That’s her partisan opinion, because he implemented some conservative things she didn’t like (such as returning a huge budget surplus to the people via rebates, rather than reinvesting it in government programs). She’s probably conveniently forgotten his more progressive implementations, such as pushing hard for light rail to finally be built (we had only buses until then).

I don’t think you will find any neutral observer who would say he did any long-term damage. He had a set of goals that were a mix of conservative and liberal that he wanted to push and none of them were so radical as to “destroy” us

If you’re interested, here’s an even-handed assessment of his legacy from Minnesota Public Radio: news.minnesota.publicradio.org/features/200212/17_mccalluml_venturalegacy/

Contrary to businesses fleeing the state, note that it quotes the Minnesota Chamber of Commerce as saying that the state’s “business climate is now more competitive than it was when Ventura took office, due largely to the property tax reforms and the income tax cuts pushed by Ventura.”

Thanks for sharing the link, it looks like he did quite well for an ‘independent’

 

[Giggly_Giraffe]

Suppose that Trump wins the Republican nomination and Hillary wins the Democratic nomination. (You can discuss how likely this in in the comments, if you want; for now, just run a thought experiment with me.) Would you vote for Trump or Hillary? Would you abandon your current party or typical voting block to do so?

Normally vote conservative.

Seriously thinking which countries we could move to if Hillary, Bernie, or Trump wins. How embarrassing for our country!

 

[Giggly_Giraffe]

Suppose that Trump wins the Republican nomination and Hillary wins the Democratic nomination. (You can discuss how likely this in in the comments, if you want; for now, just run a thought experiment with me.) Would you vote for Trump or Hillary? Would you abandon your current party or typical voting block to do so?

Normally vote conservative.

Seriously thinking which countries we could move to if Hillary, Bernie, or Trump wins. How embarrassing for our country!

 

[crenfro]

Hello.

I’m going to vote for whoever is the pro-life candidate as long as abortion continues to be legal in this country.

It is the priority.

 

[peace2u2]

I am going to write this name in: Pope Francis

 

[peace2u2]

AN ELECTION PRAYER TO MARY

O Most Blessed Virgin Mary, Mother of Mercy, at this most critical time, we entrust the United States of America to your loving care.
Most Holy Mother, we beg you to reclaim this land for the glory of your Son. Overwhelmed with the burden of the sins of our nation, we cry to you from the depths of our hearts and seek refuge in your motherly protection.
Look down with mercy upon us and touch the hearts of our people. Open our minds to the great worth of human life and to the responsibilities that accompany human freedom.
Free us from the falsehoods that lead to the evil of abortion and threaten the sanctity of family life. Grant our country the wisdom to proclaim that God’s law is the foundation on which this nation was founded, and that He alone is the True Source of our cherished rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
O Merciful Mother, give us the courage to reject the culture of death and the strength to build a new Culture of Life.

 

[Luigi_Daniele]

Hello.

I’m going to vote for whoever is the pro-life candidate as long as abortion continues to be legal in this country.

It is the priority.

 

[TheOrigen]

Given a choice between Trump and Hillary I select Trump today, Trump yesterday, Trump tomorrow, Trump in a week, Trump in a year, Trump on my date of birth, and Trump infinitum.

The only way I would ever support Hillary Clinton in politics is if Jesus Himself told me to, and even then I might check myself into a mental hospital in disbelief that the Almighty Creator of the Universe appeared to me and told me to vote for Hillary Clinton.

 

[Little_Sheep]

Hi,
Why are we discussing these two candidates? …

Because the poll and the OP asked us to do just that.

 

[Little_Sheep]

She wants unlimited Abortion. That is extreme and a position no Christian should accept.

I don’t understand what you mean by unlimited abortion. Though most women in our country have access to safe abortion, there are indeed limits that were placed on the procedure in Roe v. Wade, and beyond, per the different states.

 

[TheOrigen]

I don’t understand what you mean by unlimited abortion mean. Though most women in our country have access to safe abortion, there are indeed limits that were placed on the procedure in Roe v. Wade, and beyond, per the different states.

I believe “unlimited” abortion would mean that you would be legally allowed to kill a baby until the cutting of the umbilical cord. It would not surprise me in the least if this was a Hillary Rodham Clinton Official Campaign Platform.

 

[Little_Sheep]

Hello.

I’m going to vote for whoever is the pro-life candidate as long as abortion continues to be legal in this country.

It is the priority.

Neither party is in line with the official Catholic Church position on that issue.

 

[Little_Sheep]

I believe “unlimited” abortion would mean that you would be legally allowed to kill a baby until the cutting of the umbilical cord. It would not surprise me in the least if this was a Hillary Rodham Clinton Official Campaign Platform.

It’s not.

 

[TheOrigen]

Neither party is in line with the official Catholic Church position on that issue.

You are correct, but nationally one party actually pretends to care about something that almost kind of approaches the official Catholic Church position and at the local level actually helps to do things to restrict it and that party does not start with D

 

[mary_bobo]

I don’t understand what you mean by unlimited abortion. Though most women in our country have access to safe abortion, there are indeed limits that were placed on the procedure in Roe v. Wade, and beyond, per the different states.

And the limits have been mostly ignored.

 

[Little_Sheep]

And the limits have been mostly ignored.

How so? I’m trying to follow your thoughts about abortion limits being ignored.

I mean, it’s true that in more recent times, some states are trying to change the limits to make them more restrictive (witness: Texas, which in light of Scalia’s (may he RIP) death, will soon lose most of the clinics in the state which currently provide abortion care). But change is not ignore.

What am I missing?

 

[Little_Sheep]

You are correct, but nationally one party actually pretends to care about something that almost kind of approaches the official Catholic Church position and at the local level actually helps to do things to restrict it and that party does not start with D

Thank you for admitting that Republicans only pretend to care about restricting abortion! I could’t agree with you more. There is not one single national party in this land that believes outlawing abortion would be a good or even possible thing.

And, imho, it’s beneficial for all of us to admit this.

Once we admit that politicians of any stripe will never lead us to truth on the abortion issue then all of us human beings (whatever side of the it-should-be-legal/it-should-be-outlawed line we stand on) can come together and work towards our common heart’s desire. And that desire is this: that every potential human life be desired and loved and supported in this world.

 

[TheOrigen]

Thank you for admitting that Republicans only pretend to care about restricting abortion! I could’t agree with you more. There is not one single national party in this land that believes outlawing abortion would be a good or even possible thing.

And, imho, it’s a good thing for all of us if we will admit this.

Once we admit that politicians of any stripe will never lead us to truth on the abortion issue then all of us human beings (whatever side of the it-should-be-legal/it-should-be-outlawed line we stand on) can come together and work towards our common heart’s desire. And that desire is this: that every potential human life be desired and loved and supported in this world.

I agree with you. Unfortunately I do not believe the Democratic Party agrees with us, since they openly advocate for the killing of children (while refusing to call it what it is, and shaming those who do). I also do not believe the Democratic Party agrees with us when they call upon to kill our elderly in the name of “dignity.” I also do not believe the Democratic Party agrees with us when it removes children from the sacrament God created for them and then determines that they can decide what that sacrament is really for. I also do not believe the Democratic Party agrees with us when supporting policies that help to enslave us to big business and government and creating further barriers of entry into the business world through regulation instead of empowering people to start their own businesses. I also do not believe the Democratic Party agrees with us when they go out of their way to divide the nation into races and genders and ages and whatever other special demographics they come up with to pit against each other and scream bloody murder to the courts whenever someone doesn’t play ball with them.

edit: I have plenty to disagree with Republicans about, but they are not nearly as foundational as my disagreements with the Democrats