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exnihilo
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What you consider to be on topic seems to only be information that you think supports your position. That isn’t really a fair way to debate.
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Zzyzx_Road
Guest
Victoria, I used to be a lot like you in that I used to accept uncritically nearly everything that was done on our behalf in the Middle East. My eyes were opened over a decade ago in the wake of the lies that were used to justify the 2003 Iraq invasion. My new position solidified in the wake of the Libya fiasco, the faked gas attacks of 2013, our involvement in Ukraine where we have no business, our failure to go after the Saudis after 9/11, I could go on, but that will do for starters.
The media you restrict yourself to, the links you supply are all biased in favor of interventionism. You need to start looking at other sources before you can lay claim to the complete picture.
The media you restrict yourself to, the links you supply are all biased in favor of interventionism. You need to start looking at other sources before you can lay claim to the complete picture.
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Victoria33
Guest
Are you telling us anything new?
It’s well known what wrongs we have done, you don’t even need to go back to Vietnam, just look up “burn pits” in Iraq. Many soldiers have suffered and I’m front and center for their justice.
However, that just emphasizes the need to do the right thing and not the wrong thing now. That means, not abandoning our allies, Christians, those who have helped us, the Kurds.
It’s well known what wrongs we have done, you don’t even need to go back to Vietnam, just look up “burn pits” in Iraq. Many soldiers have suffered and I’m front and center for their justice.
However, that just emphasizes the need to do the right thing and not the wrong thing now. That means, not abandoning our allies, Christians, those who have helped us, the Kurds.
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exnihilo
Guest
The greatest danger this century to Christianity in the Middle turned out not to be Islam. It was the US and her interventionist policies. We have done more to destroy Christianity in the Middle East than anyone else. If we really care about Christians in the Middle East we would stop ‘helping’ them with our military actions. Bush I and II’s wars have been the root problem.
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Victoria33
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Again, I could not disagree more, I have extensively read up on the burn pits of Iraq. They have caused great suffering, so then, when saying this or that. I simply disagree.
And again, interventionism, I’m not for abandoning our allies which clearly include Christians, they have already suffered much from the US’s acts. Truth be told, the persecution started with the Gulf War of 2003 and intensified under Obama’s terms. So, to say, I’m seeing things in some skewed way is wrong.
I won’t use consortium news, anti-war.com, RT as exclusive to form my opinion, you have that right.
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Zzyzx_Road
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I didn’t say anything about restricting yourself to anti-war media; I said you need to read everything both pro- and anti- with an open mind.
All media are biased one way or another; it is often like reading Faulkner. You have to read 4, 5, 6 or more different accounts written from different points of view, different vantage points, different motivations, you read between the lines of all of them, compare and contrast and then you might be able to figure out what is happening and who stands to gain from that. If I restricted my reading sources as much as you do, I might still be thinking just like you. Open your eyes.
All media are biased one way or another; it is often like reading Faulkner. You have to read 4, 5, 6 or more different accounts written from different points of view, different vantage points, different motivations, you read between the lines of all of them, compare and contrast and then you might be able to figure out what is happening and who stands to gain from that. If I restricted my reading sources as much as you do, I might still be thinking just like you. Open your eyes.
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Victoria33
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“Open my eyes” , lisyen I don’T
Catholics, this is a Catholic forum, are being persecuted in Syria.
Furthermore, if all you can do is attack one source, that by the way, talks about Catholics being persecuted, that is fairly weak.
What’s your point? You say interventionism, I don’t agree with this point at all. I might as well say you and who is upvoting your posts is just advocating for the persecution of Chaldean Catholics.
Now, if one more post is nothing more than insulting me and not addressing the issues in any solid way, I will not respond anymore.
I don’t need to open my eyes, whomever is giving your posts pluses is rewarding uncharitable behavior,. You are discussing the poster and not the issues, I would be concerned if I answered back in kind to your remarks, I might face a suspension.
Catholics, this is a Catholic forum, are being persecuted in Syria.
Furthermore, if all you can do is attack one source, that by the way, talks about Catholics being persecuted, that is fairly weak.
What’s your point? You say interventionism, I don’t agree with this point at all. I might as well say you and who is upvoting your posts is just advocating for the persecution of Chaldean Catholics.
Now, if one more post is nothing more than insulting me and not addressing the issues in any solid way, I will not respond anymore.
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Victoria33
Guest
Sorry, Syria and Iraq are not the only places Christians have been persecuted, we never invaded Syria so I call FALSE. In calling for the abandoning of Syria at this point, you are essentially advocating for the persecution of Christians.
Also, saying such a type of debate is not fair, one can say what they want. One could easily say one is furthermore, steering the conversation a certain way. I mean, they say the Maine was bombed in 1898 and started the Spanish American war, I don’t know the history properly but that is some time ago to indulge others in talking about certain topics.
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exnihilo
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I’d say in calling for continued military action you are advocating for the persecution of Christians. Also, anyone who thinks US foreign policy is designed to help Christian is very mistaken. How could one think that? The US government is openly hostile to Christianity at home. Why would it be the opposite overseas?
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AlNg
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What do you call it when US sends troops to Syria without the permission of President Assad?
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Victoria33
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I call it fighting terrorism, that’s what I call it. Any other questions?
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MonteRCMS
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This is the intercontinental bomber the Germans were pursuing:
Junkers Ju 390 - Wikipedia
According to Green’s reporting, in June 1944, Allied Intelligence had learned from prisoner interrogations that a Ju 390 had been delivered in January 1944 to Fernaufklärungsgruppe 5, based at Mont-de-Marsan near Bordeaux and that it had completed a 32-hour reconnaissance flight to within 19 km (12 mi) of the U.S. coast, north of New York City.
In his book, The Bunker , author James P. O’Donnell mentions a flight to Japan. O’Donnell claimed that Albert Speer, in an early 1970s telephone interview, stated that there had been a secret Ju 390 flight to Japan “late in the war”. The flight, by a Luftwaffe test pilot, had supposedly been non-stop via the polar route.[16] O’Donnell is the sole source for the story; Speer never mentioned the story in any of his writings or other interviews. Kössler and Ott make no mention of the claim.
German nuclear program during World War II - Wikipedia
… the OSS (Office of Strategic Services, which was the precursor of the CIA) changed its mind and sent former Red Sox catcher Moe Berg to find out what Heisenberg was up to. They gave Berg a rudimentary education on nuclear physics and a list of keywords and phrases to pay attention to and sent him on his way. A symposium was arranged in Zurich, Switzerland and Heisenberg was invited to attend as a guest speaker. If any of those keywords or phrases that Berg learned were said at the speech, indicating that Heisenberg was working on an atomic bomb, Berg’s orders were to kill Heisenberg right then and there. Luckily for both scientist and spy, Heisenberg’s speech was not about atomic weaponry. It was also in German, which Berg knew how to speak, but probably had a hard time understanding physics in.
I-400-class submarine - Wikipedia
able to carry three Aichi M6A Seiran aircraft underwater to their destinations. They were designed to surface, launch their planes, then quickly dive again before they were discovered. . They are considered the strategic predecessors to today’s ballistic submarines, especially to the Regulus missile program begun about a decade after World War II.[3]
The I-400 class was designed with the range to travel anywhere in the world and return. of which only three ( I-400 at Kure, and I-401 and I-402 at Sasebo) were completed.
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Victoria33
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Syria has been on the list of states that sponsor terror since 1978.
It’s been a haven for terrorists. Also, we have a right to go into places, if the president is just killing his own people.
Should we have gone into Rwanda to stop genocide in the 1990s? We probably should have.
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MonteRCMS
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Three giant I-400 submarines were built but the U.S. Navy captured and scuttled them to prevent their being taken by Russia.
en.wikipedia.org
Aichi M6A Seiran - Wikipedia
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AlNg
Guest
Why don’t you call it an invasion of Syria since the US did not have the permission of the Syrian government to land its troops there?
Would it be all right for China to send its troops to the US without the permission of the US government? Right now we hear allegations that Asian students are not being treated fairly in the university acceptance process and the judicial system has not rectified this. When looked at on the basis of race, it appears that Asian students must receive much higher SAT scores than whites, browns or blacks in order to get accepted in many universities. And of course there are many other allegations by many other groups in the USA that they are not being treated fairly. However, that does not justify a foreign country to send in its troops without the permission of the government. It is called an invasion when this is done, No?
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AlNg
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“His own people” - were those the terrorists you were just talking about? The people fighting with goals similar to ISIS - trying to bring down the government?
President Lincoln was " killing his own people" was he not, during the civil war? I do not agree with US going around invading other countries without the permission of the existing government, or in dire circumstances, unless the United Nations Body recommends it.
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Victoria33
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I think if it were an invasion, we would have nore than 2000 soldiers up in the borderlands with Turkey, I think we would have tanks rolling into Damascus.
The country by some accounts has produced 10,000,000 displaced persons, many refugees. A terror group, ISIS controled large swaths of land, call it a Caliphate. Is that now Assad’s Syria? ISIS commits gruesome crimes, what may be called genocide or the lesser ethnic cleansing.
Now, I can only speak of where we are now and what is the right thing to do, not the Iraq invasion of 2003.
What is more is that area we are in, I would think is part of greater Kurdistan. Maybe they invited us in and if the governmentis failing to protect them, maybe to the extent of being a failed state, what then?
And that’s not even mentioning terrorists coming in from Syria into Iraq.
https://raymondpronk.files.wordpress.com/2014/06/kurdistan3.jpg(image larger than 4096KB)
What if the government is not protecting these people? Do we just say let them be killed?
The country by some accounts has produced 10,000,000 displaced persons, many refugees. A terror group, ISIS controled large swaths of land, call it a Caliphate. Is that now Assad’s Syria? ISIS commits gruesome crimes, what may be called genocide or the lesser ethnic cleansing.
Now, I can only speak of where we are now and what is the right thing to do, not the Iraq invasion of 2003.
What is more is that area we are in, I would think is part of greater Kurdistan. Maybe they invited us in and if the governmentis failing to protect them, maybe to the extent of being a failed state, what then?
And that’s not even mentioning terrorists coming in from Syria into Iraq.
https://raymondpronk.files.wordpress.com/2014/06/kurdistan3.jpg(image larger than 4096KB)
What if the government is not protecting these people? Do we just say let them be killed?
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Thorolfr
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The Russians sure are happy about Trump’s decision to leave Syria. As reported in the New York Times:
So, it looks like the Russians are getting what they wanted when they interfered in our elections. And I’m sure that the Iranians are happy, too. According to the Washington Post:
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Victoria33
Guest
One thing I will say, I am not sure when American troops first entered Syria, even in support. That seems like it would have been during Obama’s administration and one could say I gather, that the US under Obama, supported Rebels and Radicals to overthrow Assad. This is all very murky… but again, I don’t really draw lines to the present situation.
That is all history and it’s murky and I don’t care to be accusatory, we got our act together and beat down ISIS. That is what is important. This other that we could talk about, I’m sure, someone could write a history book on… so in other words, IOW, it’s a bit beyond the scope of this forum.
That is all history and it’s murky and I don’t care to be accusatory, we got our act together and beat down ISIS. That is what is important. This other that we could talk about, I’m sure, someone could write a history book on… so in other words, IOW, it’s a bit beyond the scope of this forum.
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Victoria33
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Things have changed a bit and maybe this was done and planned behind closed doors, it is said the Saudis will send troops to replace US troops. Also, the French have been interested in this. One might check the news.
Here is an article on this, this is from a RW website, however, I know Kurdish news (Rojava) already tweeted it early this morning.
theconservativetreehouse.com
Here is an article on this, this is from a RW website, however, I know Kurdish news (Rojava) already tweeted it early this morning.
CHECKMATE - Saudi Crown Prince MbS Sends Replacement Troops To Defend Kurds in Syria... - The Last Refuge
Brilliant. Nancy Pelosi, Chuck Schumer and the DC Decepticons are concerned about the Kurdish groups in Syria as the President Trump withdraws U.S. forces. The concern stems from a possibility of Turkey taking hostile action toward our Kurdish allies. However, a new report from the region...
theconservativetreehouse.com
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