Trump Thread Two

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estesbob said:
I find it interesting that nobody ever asks pro abortion organizations what they do for the child after birth It would appear the only “choice” they support is abortion
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I find it interesting that nobody ever asks why childbirth is so obscenely expensive – shouldn’t more affordable childbirth be part of what it means to be “pro-life”? Average cost to deliver a baby is upwards of $8,000. Abortions don’t cost $8,000. Why are abortions so affordable compared to deliveries? That’s not right. :confused:
 
LeafByNiggle said:
People who choose to go into politics are generally sacrificing a more lucrative career in business or law. They do it mostly out of a desire to serve the public. People who go into business generally are not sacrificing anything, and are doing what they are doing to enrich themselves.
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And people who post about business owners clearly have no idea what they are talking about.

Or did I generalize about people too much?

You have literally no idea of the motivations of why millions of folks have started a business. None. How could you? They all have various reasons. I am sure profit plays some part in most, the same way most employees expect to be paid for the work they do. Does it make the employee bad that they don’t work for free? What was Mother Angelica’s motivation for EWTN? What is the motivation for a couple who opens a bed and breakfast?

The sacrifices in starting a business, and the stress of running it and trying to make it succeed despite being obstructed by the federal and state government year after year are immense, and far more than I ever had as a W-2 or consultant employee. When an employee goes home for the day, the owner is still in his or her office. When my friends go to bed, I am working on company business, short changing my health by not getting the sleep I should. That’s just part of the deal.

The idea that business owners aren’t sacrificing anything is one of the most ignorant things I’ve heard you say, and you’ve been around awhile. Do the rest of us a favor and don’t generalize about things of which you clearly no nothing. It misleads people, and if I was a liberal, I’d probably be offended.
 
randomuser said:
I find it interesting that nobody ever asks why childbirth is so obscenely expensive – shouldn’t more affordable childbirth be part of what it means to be “pro-life”? Average cost to deliver a baby is upwards of $8,000. Abortions don’t cost $8,000. Why are abortions so affordable compared to deliveries? That’s not right. :confused:
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Firstly, it’s objectively irrelevant. Abortion would still be wrong even if it costs $20 and childbirth costs $20,000.

Secondly, childbirth is more expensive because there’s another human being that comes in to the health care world. That means nurses and pediatricians and blood draws and warmers and diapers and another bed and immunizations and medications.

It’s just basic math.
 
Maximilan_Kolbe said:
And people who posy about business owners clearly have no idea what they are talking about.

Or did I generalize about people too much?

You have literally no idea of the motivations of why millions of folks have started a business. None. How could you? They all have various reasons. I am sure profit plays some part in most, the same way most employees expect to be paid for the work they do. Does it make the employee bad that they don’t work for free? What was Mother Angelica’s motivation for EWTN? What is the motivation for a couple who opens a bed and breakfast?

The sacrifices in starting a business, and the stress of running it and trying to make it succeed despite being obstructed by the federal and state government year after year are immense, and far more than I ever had as a W-2 or consultant employee. When an employee goes home for the day, the owner is still in his or her office. When my friends go to bed, I am working on company business, short changing my health by not getting the sleep I should. That’s just part of the deal.

The idea that business owners aren’t sacrificing anything is one of the most ignorant things I’ve heard you say, and you’ve been around awhile. Do the rest of us a favor and don’t generalize about things of which you clearly no nothing. It misleads people, and if I was a liberal, I’d probably be offended.
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I assume you have the same criticism of post #611, which made generalized statements about people who work in Washington? Not having an idea why they might go into politics? I know there are good decent people in business - lots of them. And I also know there are good decent people in politics - lots of them too. The idea that someone who has never served the public would automatically make a better political leader is like saying that someone who has never run a business would make a better CEO!
 
PRmerger said:
Firstly, it’s objectively irrelevant. Abortion would still be wrong even if it costs $20 and childbirth costs $20,000.

Secondly, childbirth is more expensive because there’s another human being that comes in to the health care world. That means nurses and pediatricians and blood draws and warmers and diapers and another bed and immunizations and medications.

It’s just basic math.
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It’s not irrelevant. If we’re “pro-life,” we should promote and foster policies that make childbirth more affordable and accessible. It’s not rocket science – if women see abortion as the more convenient (and affordable) option, that’s what they will choose. Bernie and Hillary are the only ones I see talking about healthcare, and yes “pro-life” – taking it outside the realm of bumper stickers into real life – is ultimately about healthcare.
 
LeafByNiggle said:
I assume you have the same criticism of post #611, which made generalized statements about people who work in Washington? Not having an idea why they might go into politics? I know there are good decent people in business - lots of them. And I also know there are good decent people in politics - lots of them too. The idea that someone who has never served in politics would automatically make a better political leader is like saying that someone who has never run a business would make a better CEO!
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I didn’t make any comments about politicians, though. You did about folks who go into business. I don’t have any nonsensical generalization to defend.

You might as well say you think people who work for a salary are greedy too. I assume you have a job? If so, can we assume you are selfish too?
 
Maximilan_Kolbe said:
I didn’t make any comments about politicians, though. You did about folks who go into business. I don’t have any nonsensical generalization to defend.
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You did choose, however, to criticize my generalization, but not the generalization of post #611, even when I specifically asked. That choice of which generalization you criticize and which you silently let slide speaks volumes. I would be content to admit my generalization is nonsensical if you admit post #611 is nonsensical too.
 
PRmerger said:
Firstly, it’s objectively irrelevant. Abortion would still be wrong even if it costs $20 and childbirth costs $20,000.

Secondly, childbirth is more expensive because there’s another human being that comes in to the health care world. That means nurses and pediatricians and blood draws and warmers and diapers and another bed and immunizations and medications.

It’s just basic math.
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I agree with Randomuser. Often it is the economics that is the cause for a woman to chose abortion. So costs is very relevant not to the morality but to the root cause of abortions.
 
Michael_Mayo said:
I agree with Randomuser. Often it is the economics that is the cause for a woman to chose abortion. So costs is very relevant not to the morality but to the root cause of abortions.
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And yet many choose abortion over adoption. It’s not only about money, though I agree with you that it’s a factor. There are many factors.
 
Michael_Mayo said:
I agree with Randomuser. Often it is the economics that is the cause for a woman to chose abortion. So costs is very relevant not to the morality but to the root cause of abortions.
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Economics might be a reason, but I’m not sure that it’s the cost of childbirth, but more so other long term costs.

My youngest son was born at a county hospital. He was a preemie. Many of his fellow preemie ,NICU patients seemed to not be well off economically. Many were very young. We were amazed once to find a set of parents our age. It turns out they were the grandparents of the new baby. One of the moms was actually an inmate at a local jail.

All the babies received similar standard of care.
 
randomuser said:
It’s not irrelevant. If we’re “pro-life,” we should promote and foster policies that make childbirth more affordable and accessible. It’s not rocket science – if women see abortion as the more convenient (and affordable) option, that’s what they will choose. Bernie and Hillary are the only ones I see talking about healthcare, and yes “pro-life” – taking it outside the realm of bumper stickers into real life – is ultimately about healthcare.
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Fair enough.

Health care costs are indeed exorbitant and need to be addressed.

However, abortion will ALWAYS be cheaper than childbirth because in the former 1 person is killed. In the latter there’s another human being that must be cared for now.
 
Maximilan_Kolbe said:
And people who post about business owners clearly have no idea what they are talking about.

Or did I generalize about people too much?

You have literally no idea of the motivations of why millions of folks have started a business. None. How could you? They all have various reasons. I am sure profit plays some part in most, the same way most employees expect to be paid for the work they do. Does it make the employee bad that they don’t work for free? What was Mother Angelica’s motivation for EWTN? What is the motivation for a couple who opens a bed and breakfast?

The sacrifices in starting a business, and the stress of running it and trying to make it succeed despite being obstructed by the federal and state government year after year are immense, and far more than I ever had as a W-2 or consultant employee. When an employee goes home for the day, the owner is still in his or her office. When my friends go to bed, I am working on company business, short changing my health by not getting the sleep I should. That’s just part of the deal.

The idea that business owners aren’t sacrificing anything is one of the most ignorant things I’ve heard you say, and you’ve been around awhile. Do the rest of us a favor and don’t generalize about things of which you clearly no nothing. It misleads people, and if I was a liberal, I’d probably be offended.
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👍
 
DeniseNY said:
You know what happens when one assumes…
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Would you mind addressing this issue we discussed way back?

Do you believe that if a church says abortion, divorce and re-marriage is ok that the member of the church is morally permitted to do these things? (And, I suppose, he doesn’t even have to be a member of that church. He just has to have a ceremony in that church).

And this is on topic because Trump, the topic of this thread, is…divorced and re-married.

On his 3rd wife.

With 2 previous living wives.
 
All this back and forth here won’t matter a hill of beans. Hillary will depend on negative attacks and the media to take down trump till November. Trump will continue to do 2/3 rallies a day with a packed audience. We’ll see if this country has more independent voters sick and tired of the media or those fed only by the media. The trump movement is almost surreptitious in that he bypasses the media and goes straight to the people.
 
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