Trump Thread

[Robert_Bay]

MODERATOR NOTE

Please charitably discuss the issues, not each other

 

[queenofheartscv]

And what Catholic in here supports abortion and gay marriage ?

Jim

Aren’t you Obama’s number one fan? You ought to know what he stands for.

 

[Path_Finder]

Aren’t you Obama’s number one fan? You ought to know what he stands for.

I agree that if a politician stands for enabling abortion and same-sex marriage, those who vote for him enable that as well. No where is this more clear than in the West Virginia legislature overriding a veto by the Governor. The governor wished to keep dismemberment abortions legal. The Senate overrode the veto.

 

[Thorolfr]

Aren’t you Obama’s number one fan? You ought to know what he stands for.

Abortion and gay marriage are not the defining features of Obama’s presidency. In fact, he has had little influence on those issues. Both issues have been decided by the Supreme Court, not by Obama.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Why not try it yourself and let us know?

I have. More than once. One poster did suggest an addition on one thread, and I incorporated it. Nobody else did, nor did anyone question its utility from a moral standpoint.

Not saying I was right or that my definition was complete. But my point is that everybody seems to classify something as “torture” or “not torture” based simply on his/her subjective feelings about such things or his/her own political predilections.

It’s not a comfortable thing to do, I’ll grant. When the Church establishes very broad, but sometimes vague directives, then establishing more precise boundaries is a worthy subject of debate. But it is worthy of doing carefully.

When it comes to torture, there are things upon which all would agree; things like Saddam Hussein’s acid baths, rape rooms, flaying alive. But when one gets too general about it, one can end up including things like being arrested, being drafted, even being investigated, which leaves the whole discussion meaningless.

 

[queenofheartscv]

Abortion and gay marriage are not the defining features of Obama’s presidency. In fact, he has had little influence on those issues. Both issues have been decided by the Supreme Court, not by Obama.

Really? So somebody forced him to flood rainbow lights on the white house to celebrate legalization of gay marriage?

Imagine the outcry if president Trump put his name on the white house for one day.

 

[Path_Finder]

Abortion and gay marriage are not the defining features of Obama’s presidency. In fact, he has had little influence on those issues. Both issues have been decided by the Supreme Court, not by Obama.

Obama voted 4 times against the rights of a baby even surviving abortion to receive life support; that’s a total dis-qualifier for me. Furthermore, he held up a budget just so planned parenthood could be funded. Mexico City policy, appointing Sibelius as Secretary of Health, his wife saying partial birth abortion was a legitimate medical procedure, one can list a whole litany of things he has done for abortion and for same-sex marriage.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Abortion and gay marriage are not the defining features of Obama’s presidency. In fact, he has had little influence on those issues. Both issues have been decided by the Supreme Court, not by Obama.

he appointed two of the members of it, though, knowing full well how they would vote on such things. But for those appointees, homosexual “marriage” would not be the law of the land. And, of course, he did not have the Justice Department defend the Catholic viewpoint in either one.

And, his Justice Dept is the one suing the Little Sisters of the Poor to make them insure for abortifacients.

 

[Lily_Bernans]

Obama voted 4 times against the rights of a baby even surviving abortion to receive life support; that’s a total dis-qualifier for me. Furthermore, he held up a budget just so planned parenthood could be funded. Mexico City policy, appointing Sibelius as Secretary of Health, his wife saying partial birth abortion was a legitimate medical procedure, one can list a whole litany of things he has done for abortion and for same-sex marriage.

Why do you think a largely Republican appointed Supreme Court upheld Planned Parenthood vs. Casey in 1992 and refused to strike a blow against abortion on demand?

And why do you think a largely Republican appointed Supreme Court, in 1973, upheld Roe v Wade, making abortion on demand legal in the US?

It was the Republican Party that ushered in the “culture of death,” and it was the Republican Party who refused to strike a blow against it in 1992.

Why do you think that was?

I think this got lost.

 

[FollowChrist34]

he appointed two of the members of it, though, knowing full well how they would vote on such things. But for those appointees, homosexual “marriage” would not be the law of the land. And, of course, he did not have the Justice Department defend the Catholic viewpoint in either one.

And, his Justice Dept is the one suing the Little Sisters of the Poor to make them insure for abortifacients.

No argument here. (which makes this whole Trump fiasco all the more tragic)

 

[Tomdstone]

How is that different from a guy in a jet at 30,000 feet targeting people to kill, or a guy 10 miles away on the ground aiming at people he can’t see but who got coordinates from a “spotter” or even a satellite image?

Is it the total lack of danger presented to the computer operator? If so, it seems that’s more an issue of what we perceive as “sporting” rather than one of morality.

The drone operator is at a secure and undisclosed location.

 

[Path_Finder]

Obama voted 4 times against the rights of a baby even surviving abortion to receive life support; that’s a total dis-qualifier for me. Furthermore, he held up a budget just so planned parenthood could be funded. Mexico City policy, appointing Sibelius as Secretary of Health, his wife saying partial birth abortion was a legitimate medical procedure, one can list a whole litany of things he has done for abortion and for same-sex marriage.

Besides, Church teaching prohibits us from enabling these intrinsic evils.

 

[Tomdstone]

BTW, do a search on Trump’s wife. Melania Trump, and see the racy photos of the potential 1st Lady.
Jim

Do a search on Hillary’s husband and see the racy women he has known. Bill is the potential 1st husband.

 

[Lily_Bernans]

Why do you think a largely Republican appointed Supreme Court upheld Planned Parenthood vs. Casey in 1992 and refused to strike a blow against abortion on demand?

And why do you think a largely Republican appointed Supreme Court, in 1973, upheld Roe v Wade, making abortion on demand legal in the US?

It was the Republican Party that ushered in the “culture of death,” and it was the Republican Party who refused to strike a blow against it in 1992.

Why do you think that was?

I think this got lost.

 

[Path_Finder]

Why do you think a largely Republican appointed Supreme Court upheld Planned Parenthood vs. Casey in 1992 and refused to strike a blow against abortion on demand?

And why do you think a largely Republican appointed Supreme Court, in 1973, upheld Roe v Wade, making abortion on demand legal in the US?

It was the Republican Party that ushered in the “culture of death,” and it was the Republican Party who refused to strike a blow against it in 1992.

Why do you think that was?

We are talking about now, if one wants to bring this argument in for the umpteenth time, these justices also ruled for Civil Rights, equality; sometimes, a Democratic Majority may confirm them becoming appointed to the supreme court, there are many factors. Since the 1980s; Reagan tried to overturn Roe and not only that, we don’t know what parties those who brought the case to the Supreme Court, they may well have been Democrats as well, for this tired, disengenuous hollow argument put forth again.

 

[Path_Finder]

Berthanson, Betty Friedan, who ever was the 3rd one who started the National Abortion Rights League, chances are, they were all 3 Democrats; so dutifully, distribute the blame. Back in 1973, though abortion was not new to the Church, it might have been new to a lot of people.

 

[Sy_Noe]

Reagan Democrats + 30% of African Americans, + small percentage of Hispanics.

(Trump is polling 70% negative with African Americans, 30% positive) (I don’t know his Hispanic numbers)

Sanders won Michigan, so it is clear it is not necessarily Hillary strong country. The anti-trade thing plays very well there, given the economic woes.

Trump actually did better than Kasich with above demographic in Ohio. Kasich does well with suburbia, high end Dems (Rubio demographic), Trump does much better downscale.

Trump is hugely popular in Florida; I am convinced he will battle Hillary to the last vote, and actually has a good chance to win it; again see above. Florida very similar to Northeast, Trump country.

In the 2008 primary season, Obama did not win OH, PA, MI or FL. And yet he carried all 4 in the general.

Hillary has done quite well among African Americans.

80% of Latinos have an unfavorable view of Trump.

50% of women view him very unfavorably.

 

[Lily_Bernans]

We are talking about now, if one wants to bring this argument in for the umpteenth time, these justices also ruled for Civil Rights, equality; sometimes, a Democratic Majority may confirm them becoming appointed to the supreme court, there are many factors. Since the 1980s; Reagan tried to overturn Roe and not only that, we don’t know what parties those who brought the case to the Supreme Court, they may well have been Democrats as well, for this tired, disengenuous hollow argument put forth again.

LOL It’s not a tired, hollow argument. It shows that your contention that we need a Republican president so he can appoint Republican Supreme Court justices is hollow. They have ushered in the “culture of death.”

 

[Thorolfr]

Obama voted 4 times against the rights of a baby even surviving abortion to receive life support; that’s a total dis-qualifier for me. Furthermore, he held up a budget just so planned parenthood could be funded. Mexico City policy, appointing Sibelius as Secretary of Health, his wife saying partial birth abortion was a legitimate medical procedure, one can list a whole litany of things he has done for abortion and for same-sex marriage.

What was it that Donald Trump said…oh yeah, “Planned Parenthood does wonderful things.” And now you’re bringing up what Obama’s wife said. I wonder what Donald Trump’s very pro-choice sister would say? She’d probably say the same thing as Obama’s wife.

 

[Path_Finder]

What was it that Donald Trump said…oh yeah, “Planned Parenthood does wonderful things.” And now you’re bringing up what Obama’s wife said. I wonder what Donald Trump’s very pro-choice sister would say?

Trump vowed to de-fund Planned Parenthood as long as they did abortion.

As far as I know, Trump’s 79 year old sister is not in the White House.