Trump Thread

[Peter_Plato]

I hate the idea of a wall because it makes me think of the Berlin Wall. When does it become a wall not to keep others out, but to imprison us in?

Where is Leaf when we need her to explain the logic of cause and effect and the dangers of making specious associations?

Come on, Leaf, jump in here to dismantle the dubious “Why I hate the idea of a wall.”

I would suppose you hate the walls of your house, Sally, and are seriously considering taking them down because they “imprison us in,” then?

Why not become a homeless person – one without the encumbrances of walls to keep you imprisoned?

Where are you, Leaf? You ought to be an equal opportunity dismantler of confused reasoning, but…

…crickets.

Will you accept the adulation without speaking up concerning the misconceived “logic” of those who :bowdown: to your words of wisdom.

 

[Thorolfr]

We have a real issue with an influx of people crossing into our country illegally and remaining.We all know that.It has also been exposed that many of these crossing are not just from Mexico,looking for work and to improve their livelihoods.We have middle eastern ,etc.which is troubling.They are entering via Canada as well.I know that our illegal immigrant issue is just as much our fault in that we have encouraged it for the cheap labor. The bottom line is we are a sovereign nation ,entreence needs to be done legally.A wall would discourage those coming in that have no intention of becoming legal residents,not to mention those entering with nefarious intent and I don’t mean Hispanics.

Since you mention the possibility of Middle Eastern people entering the US from Canada, do you think we should also build a wall between the US and Canada? As for a wall between the US and Mexico, I doubt that Mr. Trump really believes in such a wall and is only talking about one to get elected. He’s already back pedaling on his proposed plan to deport 11 million illegal immigrants and is now talking about only getting rid of the “bad” ones.

 

[Peter_Plato]

Since you just jumped into this particular exchange, let me catch you up. Starting with post #691, there has been an exchange between Monte and Joie about whether Mayor Giuliani should be credited with bringing down crime by 76% during his time in office. Joie made the point that crime was down generally across the nation during that time period, and Giuliani merely benefitted from that. Monte claimed that New York’s drop in crime was much larger than the drop in other comparable cities. Then Joie showed a graph of crime rates in four major cities, including New York, where it appeared the New York’s drop in crime, while marginally better than in other cities, was not astoundingly so. Then Monte challenged the validity of Joie’s data based on new methods of counting crimes. It was at that point that I responded with what you quoted. So you can see that your post, while relevant to the general thrust of the thread, is a non-sequitur in the context of the posting you quoted.

Yeah, I was following the argument and noticed that four of the five cities in question adopted Giuliani’s “stop and frisk” strategy. I am in the process of correlating dates to the stats, but haven’t found the necessary data to establish anything substantive.

What really needs to be done is to take the largest 25 cities in the US and plot crime stats from the 1950s onward about them, along with which relevant policies were enacted by the municipal authorities, in addition to whether those policies originated with R or D political ideologies. Big project, but I would suspect it would be revealing.

I have noticed in the interim that the twelve largest cities in the US have become Democratic strongholds in the last few years and murder rates are beginning to skyrocket over the last two, but the data seems not as available as it ought to be. We might ask why that is so.

 

[Peter_Plato]

Since you mention the possibility of Middle Eastern people entering the US from Canada, do you think we should also build a wall between the US and Canada? As for a wall between the US and Mexico, I doubt that Mr. Trump really believes in such a wall and is only talking about one to get elected. He’s already back pedaling on his proposed plan to deport 11 million illegal immigrants and is now talking about only getting rid of the “bad” ones.

Some see “back-pedaling” where others might see “fine-tuning.”

 

[Peter_Plato]

A very informative discussion of the use and abuse of polls in this election cycle among other topics.

youtu.be/cAopWX9Mzgs

 

[Jeanne_S]

Since you mention the possibility of Middle Eastern people entering the US from Canada, do you think we should also build a wall between the US and Canada? As for a wall between the US and Mexico, I doubt that Mr. Trump really believes in such a wall and is only talking about one to get elected. He’s already back pedaling on his proposed plan to deport 11 million illegal immigrants and is now talking about only getting rid of the “bad” ones.

I think we all realize the impracticality of trying to deport 11 million illegals.A path to citizenship is the charitable and pragmatic solution.Having said that,we have to stop the influx of illegals coming into our country.If not a wall,then how do you propose we achieve that goal? We can beef up security along ALL of our borders,strictly in force them,etc.It has been suggested using retired military and retired law enforcement to act as agents.I don’t know that there is any ideal or swift solution to this issue but building a wall in addition to other measures would sent a strong message. Don’t you think?

 

[J_Peterson]

There’s a new book out today, by Ann Coulter called “In Trump we Trust”. See what she did there, she replaced a well known phrase with “Trump”

I prefer the old phrase much better. I don’t have much trust in Trump. Or Ann Coulter’s POV.

And for some reason the Trump campaign office rent at Trump Tower went up significantly.

Hmm I wonder why the landlord would do that? Donald should have a talk with him.

huffingtonpost.com/entry/trump-campaign-rent_us_57bba424e4b03d51368a82b9

He really is a con man. At the end of the day his whole campaign will turn out to be a money making scheme and a big promotion for his next endeavor (I’m guessing a 24 hour news station). That’s my Trump prediction.

 

[Al_Moritz]

He really is a con man. At the end of the day his whole campaign will turn out to be a money making scheme and a big promotion for his next endeavor (I’m guessing a 24 hour news station). That’s my Trump prediction.

Precisely.

 

[Al_Moritz]

A very informative discussion of the use and abuse of polls in this election cycle among other topics.

youtu.be/cAopWX9Mzgs

Polls are not biased against Trump. Polling firms are dependent on a good reputation, and that hinges on getting polling right. In other words, they cannot afford a consistent bias in favor of rigging the polling outcome.

Remember what happened after in the 2012 cycle Gallup consistently predicted a Romney win by several points, against the trend of all other polling? After many decades of presidential polling they decided to pull out of this kind of polling. They had no choice, they had lost their reputation.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Since you mention the possibility of Middle Eastern people entering the US from Canada, do you think we should also build a wall between the US and Canada? As for a wall between the US and Mexico, I doubt that Mr. Trump really believes in such a wall and is only talking about one to get elected. He’s already back pedaling on his proposed plan to deport 11 million illegal immigrants and is now talking about only getting rid of the “bad” ones.

Actually, he never did propose deporting 11 million illegals. What he proposed is a process by which illegal immigrants would have to return to their home countries rather than just stay here in uncertain status. They could, he said, liberally return, but they would have to do it through a regularized and expedited process, just like legal immigrants do.

What that would amount to would be for them to go to one of the U.S. embassies where they came from, register as an intended immigrant, pass background checks and then enter the “great big door” (expedited readmission) as known people.

Never did he say it would be all at once. Never did he say they couldn’t come back.

Illegal immigrants go back to their countries of origin a lot. It’s just that they don’t ever check in with the embassy in their countries in order to come back in like legal immigrants do. They just come back in, usually on false documents.

 

[Monte_RCMS]

As bad as Clinton is, Trump could be worse. I’m not saying he would be worse, but I can envision him being worse given statements he’s made during the campaign. It doesn’t surprise me one bit the AB made the comments he did. I can identify with the struggle to pick the more morally acceptable candidate. If I didn’t think Trump could be as bad or even worse than Clinton, I wouldn’t be seriously considering a 3rd party option for the first time of decades of voting in Presidential elections.

You admit Clinton has a terrible record … but “hypothetically” Trump could be worse,

In real life, Trump has more than 20,000 employees … ups and downs … but mostly up.

Up a lot.

He has a better record of actuals.

He doesn’t endanger American national security.

 

[qui_est_ce]

Whatever argument you have for Democrats causing poverty, I can counter with an argument that poverty causes Democrats. That also explains your stats. Actually, it is probably easier to show that prosperity causes Republicans.

So far, I have only seen dependence on government assistance increase under Democratic policies. Heck, Obama brags about it.

 

[Monte_RCMS]

Yeah, I was following the argument and noticed that four of the five cities in question adopted Giuliani’s “stop and frisk” strategy. I am in the process of correlating dates to the stats, but haven’t found the necessary data to establish anything substantive.

What really needs to be done is to take the largest 25 cities in the US and plot crime stats from the 1950s onward about them, along with which relevant policies were enacted by the municipal authorities, in addition to whether those policies originated with R or D political ideologies. Big project, but I would suspect it would be revealing.

I have noticed in the interim that the twelve largest cities in the US have become Democratic strongholds in the last few years and murder rates are beginning to skyrocket over the last two, but the data seems not as available as it ought to be. We might ask why that is so.

In 1965, 24 percent of black infants were born to single mothers.

In 2013, 72 percent of black infants were born to single mothers.

Something is really wrong.

Source: page 157, “Con Job” by Crystal Wright.

“Con Job – How Democrats Gave Us Crime, Sanctuary Cities, Abortion Profiteering, and Racial Division”.

Crystal Wright’s Web site is www.conservativeblackchick.com

 

[sallybutler]

Where is Leaf when we need her to explain the logic of cause and effect and the dangers of making specious associations?

Come on, Leaf, jump in here to dismantle the dubious “Why I hate the idea of a wall.”

I would suppose you hate the walls of your house, Sally, and are seriously considering taking them down because they “imprison us in,” then?

Why not become a homeless person – one without the encumbrances of walls to keep you imprisoned?

Where are you, Leaf? You ought to be an equal opportunity dismantler of confused reasoning, but…

…crickets.

Will you accept the adulation without speaking up concerning the misconceived “logic” of those who :bowdown: to your words of wisdom.

Mr. Plato,

Everyone has fears. Some are afraid of snakes. I’m not. Should I make fun of people who are? No.

While you may not agree with my fears, belittling them is not nice.

 

[Monte_RCMS]

You admit Clinton has a terrible record … but “hypothetically” Trump could be worse,

In real life, Trump has more than 20,000 employees … ups and downs … but mostly up.

Up a lot.

He has a better record of actuals.

He doesn’t endanger American national security.

How many people does Trump himself personally employ?

THOUSANDS.

22,450

or

34,000

And they all seem to like working for him.

If they didn’t like him, they would quit.

So he must be paying them a lot.

 

[BernadetteM]

Actually, he never did propose deporting 11 million illegals. What he proposed is a process by which illegal immigrants would have to return to their home countries rather than just stay here in uncertain status. They could, he said, liberally return, but they would have to do it through a regularized and expedited process, just like legal immigrants do.

What that would amount to would be for them to go to one of the U.S. embassies where they came from, register as an intended immigrant, pass background checks and then enter the “great big door” (expedited readmission) as known people.

Never did he say it would be all at once. Never did he say they couldn’t come back.

Illegal immigrants go back to their countries of origin a lot. It’s just that they don’t ever check in with the embassy in their countries in order to come back in like legal immigrants do. They just come back in, usually on false documents.

As you say Trump never said they could NEVER come back, only legally. However, if anyone was really watching the debates they might recall Ted Cruz say that "they NEVER would be allowed back into the U.S., How soon we either forget or maybe are just prejudiced for one candidate over another and ignore their agendas…

Bernadette

 

[Peter_Plato]

Mr. Plato,

Everyone has fears. Some are afraid of snakes. I’m not. Should I make fun of people who are? No.

While you may not agree with my fears, belittling them is not nice.

Ms. Butler,

There was no “belittling” intended, just pointing out that irrational fears of snakes or walls are not a legitimate basis upon which government policies ought to be grounded.

Don’t you agree?

Or do you want to insist that irrational fears are appropriate grounds for determining public policy?

If you won’t propose your fear of walls as a good reason to oppose Trump’s suggestion, then I won’t point out the obvious that irrational fear isn’t good grounds for wise policy.

 

[Alex_H]

Steve Bannon, Donald Trump’s new campaign CEO, previously accused Catholics of supporting Hispanic immigration to prop up the church’s numbers on his radio program in the spring.

“I understand why Catholics want as many Hispanics in this country as possible, because the church is dying in this country, right? If it was not for the Hispanics,” Bannon told Robert P. George, a Princeton law professor who, along with dozens of other leaders, wrote an open letter to fellow Catholics denouncing Trump.

“I get that, right? But I think that is the subtext of part of the letter, and I think that is the subtext of a lot of the political direction of this.”

The Hill first reported on Bannon’s March 8 comments Monday. Bannon railed against House Speaker Paul Ryan (R-Wis.) and said he was “rubbing his social-justice Catholicism in my nose every second.”

About a month earlier, Trump, the Republican presidential nominee, had a controversial exchange with Pope Francis.

“A person who thinks only about building walls, wherever they may be, and not building bridges, is not Christian. This is not the gospel,” said Francis in February on his way back from a visit to Mexico.

Trump, who proposes building a border wall as part of his immigration plan, called the comment “disgraceful.”

“No leader, especially a religious leader, should have the right to question another man’s religion or faith,” Trump said.

According to Pew Research Center, the proportion of American Catholics who are Hispanic grew from 29 percent in 2007 to 34 percent in 2014. The proportion of white Catholics decreased from 65 percent to 59 percent.

Link

 

[Peter_Plato]

And for some reason the Trump campaign office rent at Trump Tower went up significantly.

Hmm I wonder why the landlord would do that? Donald should have a talk with him.

huffingtonpost.com/entry/trump-campaign-rent_us_57bba424e4b03d51368a82b9

Well since you brought it up, you do realize that because Trump is now receiving funding from other sources than himself, he is required by law to charge and pay fair market prices for his expense items. This is to prevent campaign donors from making “in kind” donations which would exceed contribution limits in fair market terms, but get away with it by claiming far less than fair market costs.

The Trump campaign is forced by campaign finance laws to pay “fair market value” for services or products that benefit the campaign, even from companies affiliated with the candidate, leading campaign finance expert and attorney Cleta Mitchell wrote to Breitbart News in an email asking about controversy.

“Any use of Trump corporate facilities used for campaign purposes must be paid by the campaign just as though the facilities were owned by a third party,” Mitchell explained. “That includes everything: office space and equipment, personnel, hotels, meeting rooms, aircraft, everything.”

A review of Trump’s FEC filings through May 31 show not a scheme to enrich himself, but rather a man who is confident in his numerous self-built businesses. Most of his buildings, planes, helicopters, and businesses are boldly branded with his name. While other campaigns use temporary signage to brand their candidates on the trail, Trump holds events and flies on planes that have his brand permanently displayed. It’s a common practice a campaign finance attorney like Mitchell is used to dealing with. Mitchell said:

I have many times advised law firms and companies who had a partner or principal who decided to run for federal office — and we have established a payment schedule for the campaign or candidate to pay the company or firm for the candidate’s / campaign’s use of the office / personnel / equipment, etc. Those must always be paid for by the campaign.

Failure to pay results in an in-kind contribution to the campaign. And if owned by a corporation would be an illegal in-kind. A corporation cannot give anything to a federal campaign. And anything owned even by the candidate personally has to be captured and reported.
breitbart.com/2016-presidential-race/2016/07/02/exclusive-campaign-finance-expert-reveals-media-dishonesty-on-trump-fec-filing/

This brings up a case in point about the main stream media.

Without a doubt, HuffPo writers and editors knew that but went with a disparaging angle to the story in order to stir the pot on Trump’s business ethics.

 

[qui_est_ce]

Link

“A person who thinks only about building walls, wherever they may be, and not building bridges, is not Christian. This is not the gospel,” said Francis in February on his way back from a visit to Mexico.

Pope Francis broke CAF rules!!!