Trump Uses Mount Rushmore Speech to Deliver Divisive Culture War Message

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I would say Reagan was accused of race baiting and interpreted as being a race baiter … but then that a common theme …

Funny how Carter was not a racist and a race baiter - he did sign the act that restored Jefferson Davis - the President of the Confederate State his United States citizenship … and Biden voted for that too

Funny how the grand kleagle Robert KKK Byrd gets a pass - he started the KKK in West Virginia …

Those are real actions…not someone taking a sentence another speaks- then interpreting it and telling you what that person is really saying in some coded language
 
YADA said:
I would say Reagan was accused of race baiting and interpreted as being a race baiter … but then that a common theme …

Funny how Carter was not a racist and a race baiter - he did sign the act that restored Jefferson Davis - the President of the Confederate State his United States citizenship … and Biden voted for that too

Funny how the grand kleagle Robert KKK Byrd gets a pass - he started the KKK in West Virginia …

Those are real actions…not someone taking a sentence another speaks- then interpreting it and telling you what that person is really saying in some coded language
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We were talking about the use of rhetoric. Conservatives love to swing Robert Byrd around like a dead cat. He did not “start” the KKK in WV.

If you deal with the history of those presidents, while Reagan started his political career fighting open housing and went on to oppose the Civil Rights Act and the Voting Rights Act, it was Carter who in his inaugural address as governor of a southern state bravely stated that : “The time for racial discrimination is over.”
 
And then restored citizenship to Jefferson Davis …in 1979 …

The KKK was virtually non existent in WV after the Civil war and was re- instituted in the early 1900s … Robert Byrd was a recruiter for the Klan’ attempted resurgence after WWII …
 
I just want to point out that first, I voted for Regan and second, I understood exactly who he was referring to with his young buck comment. It was a dog whistle to those who wanted welfare to only go to whites.

You may not be knowledgeable about the term but enough whites were to “get it”.
 
Who wanted welfare to go only to whites … that is crazy thinking and I have never ever heard that said before - ever in my life.

I did not want welfare to go to anyone who did not need it and who was perfectly capable of working … no matter what their color or creed was.

We have a safety net for those who are unable to work - not as a paid vacation for those who choose not to work …

I remember in mid 1980s there was a news report about unemployed French citizens who were going on strike for increases in unemployment compensation. We had quite a discussion of this at work [this was before the 24 hour news cycle - at least in my knowledge because I could not afford cable back in those days] …wondering what unemployed people stopped doing when they went on strike … like I get that Sanitation Workers who stop picking up garbage around town can strike and that garbage piling up in the streets gets peoples attentions - but those on unemployment?

Welfare in the 1980s was on the road to becoming multi generational existence … and it was never meant to be a life style choice. And that welfare subsistence has had a huge negative impact on families … across all races but sadly - the African American family most of all.
 
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Nepperhan said:
Every white person in America, even if he or she has never met a minority, has benefited from racial discrimination in America against racail minorities. This was explained to me by a white priest in the early eighties.
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I have not. Everything I have I have worked for.
I have received no special privilege or advantage. In fact, one job I held was under the understanding that a particular ethnic group was given hiring preference.
Priests, white or otherwise, can be wrong. Yours was.
 
otjm said:
There is racism in the US - and you can take any race in the US and find individuals within those communities who are racist; but that does not make systemic racism.
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Of course systems can be racist. They’re made up of a collection of people who can be racist. Racism may not be encoded into law but racists can find a way around that.
otjm said:
And there have been people on television claiming that only whites can be racist, which is an outright baldfaced lie.
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Anyone can be racist, not just white people.
 
Sarcelle said:
Of course systems can be racist. They’re made up of a collection of people who can be racist. Racism may not be encoded into law but racists can find a way around that.
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For it to be systemic, it must be built into the system. It must be codified, the required or expected way for the people in the system to act.
If it is just the way a particular individual acts within the system, that doesn’t make it systemic.
 
JonNC said:
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Nepperhan:
Every white person in America, even if he or she has never met a minority, has benefited from racial discrimination in America against racail minorities. This was explained to me by a white priest in the early eighties.
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I have not. Everything I have I have worked for.
I have received no special privilege or advantage. In fact, one job I held was under the understanding that a particular ethnic group was given hiring preference.
Priests, white or otherwise, can be wrong. Yours was.
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Since JonNC refuses to say what rights of his he fears are in jeopardy, this post seems to imply it is the right to be seen as solely responsible for all the good fortune in his life. I don’t think that is a constitutional right. It is not even Christian, where we attribute all the good things we experience to the undeserved blessing of God. It is notable that JonNC here says his blessings were all deserved.
 
Feanor2 said:
2 more dog whistles used by the alt-right.

“Protect our culture and way of life”.
“Defend Western Civilization”.
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What is a “dog whistle”? Typically it is a comment that is innocuous at worst, or, as in this case, commendable, that someone wants to disparage but lacks actual grounds to do so, so the pretense is made that although what was said was “A” (good), what was meant was really “B” (bad).

Take “Protect our culture and way of life”. Really? This is offensive? Well no, of course not, so the pretense is made that those are code words for something else, a something constrained only by the inventiveness of the person attuned to dog whistles.

This “dog whistle” objection is meant to hide the fact that those statements mean exactly what they say. What we are seeing from the rioters and statue vandals is an attack on our culture specifically and on western civilization in general, an attack enabled by certain politicians who believe they can control the chaos they are working to release.
 
LeafByNiggle said:
Since JonNC refuses to say what rights of his he fears are in jeopardy, this post seems to imply it is the right to be seen as solely responsible for all the good fortune in his life.
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Already did. Property rights. How about the right not to be slandered with racist accusations such as “white Privilege”?

There’s another start.
LeafByNiggle said:
solely responsible for all the good fortune in his life.
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Good fortune? That is an implication that I did nothing to earn what I have.
Solely responsible? I didn’t say that at all. My parents, teachers, pastors, my wife and others I’ve learned from played a positive role in my life, pointing me in the right direction. The Spirit was instrumental in making these resources available to me by His grace.
I’ve made plenty of mistakes, and I’ve made specific choices. But these were, in fact, mine. I’m not blaming anyone else for any of them. And they weren’t the result of me having any kind of privilege or exercising and form of discrimination against others.
LeafByNiggle said:
It is notable that JonNC here says his blessings were all deserved.
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And this is a false statement about me that you should retract. I’ve made no such statement.
 
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Ender said:
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Feanor2:
2 more dog whistles used by the alt-right.

“Protect our culture and way of life”.
“Defend Western Civilization”.
Click to expand...
What is a “dog whistle”? Typically it is a comment that is innocuous at worst, or, as in this case, commendable, that someone wants to disparage but lacks actual grounds to do so, so the pretense is made that although what was said was “A” (good), what was meant was really “B” (bad).

Take “Protect our culture and way of life”. Really? This is offensive? Well no, of course not, so the pretense is made that those are code words for something else, a something constrained only by the inventiveness of the person attuned to dog whistles.

This “dog whistle” objection is meant to hide the fact that those statements mean exactly what they say.
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It is easy to argue a point when you are allowed to give your opponent’s view in addition to your own. Of course in this case your opponent would disagree with your statement of their meaning.

In this case I might agree that the term “dog whistle” is poorly applied, and here is why. The term was originally used to describe a public communication that contained a secret message that is unnoticed by those not in the intended group (similar to how a dog whistle is a secret communication to a dog but is unnoticed by animals without the ability hear frequencies above 23 kHz). In this case the intended “dog whistle” message is that “Defend Western Civilization” really means “Defend White Supremacy”. This fails at being a dog whistle not because it is a false interpretation, but because it is not nearly so secret as real dog whistle messages.

So the real question is what did Trump mean when he said “Defend Western Civilization”? Well, you can start by looking at who he was talking too - which were, for all intents and purposes, a campaign crowd of supporters. There were even chants of “four more years, four more years” from the crowd. Those supporters are primarily whites. Trump was not talking to the NAACP. He was not talking to a gathering of the Lakota. He was not taking to the United Farm Workers. And what specific actions was he objecting to? The removal of statues to, not western civilization in general, but a very specific subset of western civilization. So whether his supporters will admit it or not, they do fear the loss of their unique status in this “western civilization”.
 
LeafByNiggle said:
It is easy to argue a point when you are allowed to give your opponent’s view in addition to your own. Of course in this case your opponent would disagree with your statement of their meaning.
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See my post above about your false comments about me.
 
JonNC said:
Already did. Property rights.
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What property rights do you think are being threatened by the growth of more just treatment of others besides you?
How about the right not to be slandered with racist accusations such as “white Privilege”?
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Uh, slander does not apply here, as no aspersions are being cast on your reputation.

As for “white privilege”, it is not slander. It is just a statement of fact, just like the fact that we are are enjoying the privilege of living under such a wonderful constitution. Well, you are enjoying the privilege of living in a world where good things happen to you because you are white. It is not your fault. You did not acquire this privilege in an immoral manner (so far a I know). In fact I too am enjoying this privilege and I am very grateful that I do because it has made my life so much easier. So I could not possibly be slandering you without also slandering myself.
Good fortune? That is an implication that I did nothing to earn what I have.
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It is a recognition that there were other factors in addition to your hard work, for others have worked just as hard, but did not reap nearly the benefits you did.
And they weren’t the result of me having any kind of privilege or exercising and form of discrimination against others.
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These are two very different things - privilege and discrimination. As I pointed out above, one can be the beneficiary of privilege without any intention or knowledge or deliberate discrimination. You acknowledged some privilege already given to you by your parents, etc. But you did not mention the benefit you derive from the hard work of underpaid farm workers and others.
 
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