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Convert_in_99
Guest
No, he is saying Trump is the “lesser of two evils.”
I say he’s still an evil to be avoided and so I will vote 3rd party or not at all.
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I say he’s still an evil to be avoided and so I will vote 3rd party or not at all.
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Convert_in_99
Guest
Well it is foremost. I agree. But I personally won’t vote for someone who thinks abortion is ok for any reason. This is why I support neither of the mainstream candidates and will vote third party or not at all.
But you so nicely pointed out that both Trump and Hilary are pro-choice. I’ve been trying to get this point accross but no one seems to get it.
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TMC
Guest
For decades the GOP has tried to guilt Catholics into voting for Republicans by pushing this single issue rhetoric. Obviously you see if from staunch GOPers on this forum who try to convince Catholics that the Church requires that they vote for the GOP. That has never been true, and Trump’s nomination is making that more clear than ever.
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_Abyssinia
Guest
Look what Bishop Gracida says regarding the 2004 election and three candidates - “candidate (A, Kerry) who is completely for abortion-on-demand, candidate (B, Bush) who is in favor of very limited abortion, i.e., in favor of greatly restricting abortion and candidate (C, Peroutka), a candidate who is completely against abortion but who is universally recognized as being unelectable.”Well it is foremost. I agree. But I personally won’t vote for someone who thinks abortion is ok for any reason. This is why I support neither of the mainstream candidates and will vote third party or not at all.
But you so nicely pointed out that both Trump and Hiklary are pro-choice. I’ve been trying to get this point accross but no one seems to get it.
catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?id=6159
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Little_Sheep
Guest
I surely support you voting your conscience. I find it fascinating that we have voted in two New York liberals to choose from!Well it is foremost. I agree. But I personally won’t vote for someone who thinks abortion is ok for any reason. This is why I support neither of the mainstream candidates and will vote third party or not at all.
But you so nicely pointed out that both Trump and Hilary are pro-choice. I’ve been trying to get this point accross but no one seems to get it.
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Convert_in_99
Guest
You gave me a like article. I understand the reasoning, but I disagree.
We are allowed to vote 3rd party or even abstain from voting also. I promote these options too.
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_Abyssinia
Guest
Marjorie Dannenfessler is a pro-life advocate and president of the Susan B Anthony List and she appears convinced that Donald Trump will stick with his commitments on abortion: m.townhall.com/columnists/marjoriedannenfelser/2016/05/09/the-prolife-case-for-trump-n2160264
Dannenfessler is a commited pro-life witness.
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_Abyssinia
Guest
In the case of Perouka, Bishop Gracida says that voting for him could help the most pro-choice candidate win, Kerry.
Can you explain how voting third party would not help Hillary Clinton?
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Little_Sheep
Guest
I respect her as one vote in a sea of many. And many do not accept Trump’s utter hogwash about being “pro-life.”
I understand why people want to believe the man, but I do not understand people who actually believe the man.
Also, I enjoyed the first comment on this article:
"This is the same Donald Trump who…
A. said he was “very pro-choice” to Tim Russert, and said nothing different until he decided to run for the GOP Presidential Nomination last summer?
B. said he’d look into naming his sister, who upheld access to late-term abortions, to the Supreme Court?
C. praised Planned Parenthood just a few months ago for “the good work they’ve done for many, many, for millions of women”?
This is the “pro-life” candidate who’s “much better than Hillary”???"
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Little_Sheep
Guest
Of course it will help Hillary, but that is truly beside the point. The point is that there will not be a viable “pro-life” candidate on the Presidential ticket this year. That was bound to happen eventually honestly.
The question is - what does someone who is a single (or mostly single)-issue voter DO in the face of this reality?
Hence, the scramble named in the title of the thread.
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Ridgerunner
Guest
I’m not a Republican, and never have been. I was a Democrat from birth until I realized, rather late on, that one could not be true to the Church and the Dem party simultaneously because of the party’s absolute devotion to abortion on demand.
It is true that we should oppose evil when and how we can. In this election, and when it comes to voting, opposing Hillary Clinton is the only moral choice, and doing so in a way that actually has a chance of defeating her.
One would be a fool not to realize the next president will appoint one or two supreme court justices, and abortion on demand cannot be rolled back in the absence of those being prolife appointments. It is a certainty that Hillary Clinton will appoint pro-abortion justices.
So, in voting for her, one is voting for abortion on demand, probably for generations. In wasting one’s opportunity to oppose that, one is failing to oppose evil out of pride in one’s assumed superiority.
Some might be comfortable with that on their conscience, but no Catholic should be. Catholics in this country could stop abortion on demand.
But we won’t, because too many Catholics are okay with abortion on demand. Some admit it. Some find excuses to vote for it. McCain was too old. Romney was a Mormon and “uncertainly” prolife. Trump is racist, Islamophobic, accepts the “three exceptions” etc, etc.
Excuses to support abortion on demand.
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jeffrey_erwin
Guest
**The discussion on this thread is a good example of ignoring the elephant in the room because of a obsession with reproductive issues.
Humanity is about to exterminate itself here in the 21st century, but no one wants to say a word about if either candidate has a plan to deal with this issue.
Abortion has been prohibited by the Christian Church since its inception, but that prohibition was not always its central thesis.
Rather the two great commandments of loving our Creator and loving our neighbor are the true center of the Church.
It is our building of nuclear weapons that grossly violates these two Laws, and not some poor woman’s abortion somewhere. **
dailykos.com/story/2004/3/9/18872/-
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TMC
Guest
You say you are not a Republican, but for years you have been coming here and telling Catholics that they must vote Republican. Of course, that is not true, and you know it is not true. The Church does not require Catholics to vote Republican.
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_Abyssinia
Guest
Yes he is better on the issue than Hillary Clinton and that should tell you something about how bad Hillary Clinton is on the issue! He praised Planned Parenthood for the work they did EXCEPT on abortion. That still got plenty of criticism from pro-lifers, but Hillary Clinton is somebody who supports Planned Parenthood for the work they do including abortion!
To your point A, Donald Trump talked about his change on abortion in 2011, that is 5 years ago: lifenews.com/2011/04/08/donald-trump-explains-conversion-to-pro-life-side-on-abortion/
He didn’t just suddenly say when he started running for president oh look how I’ve changed on the abortion issue.
He doesn’t have a perfect position on abortion because he favours the exceptions, but compared to Hillary Clinton?! She has a much more expansive view on abortion.
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GaryTaylor
Guest
Vote for the lesser of two evils and no-where is that Hillary? Nor do we know whos single or multiple issue voters so its a straw man. But Hillary kills 1-mil a year. Thats already verified. As is the Church documentation on intrinsic evil.
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Little_Sheep
Guest
That’s rhetoric, of course, but I understand your position and the position of your church.
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Ridgerunner
Guest
The Church does not tell Catholics to vote Republican or Democrat. It does, however, tell us we should not support intrinsic evil like abortion. And yet, we do.
I have said for years, and I will likely say for years more that the only way the Dem party can be shaken from its full and universal support for abortion on demand, including partial birth abortion, is for Catholics to hand it a couple of sound defeats, and because of that support of abortion.
Look at the endorsements of NARAL and NRL. Almost no Democrats are shown as prolife by NRL, and nearly all are endorsed by NARAL. Almost no Repubs are shown as favorable by NARAL, but nearly all are by NRL. All prolife legislation managed in the last few years on a state level, including partial birth abortion bans, have been by Republican legislatures. No prolife justices have been appointed to the Supreme Court other than by Republican president George Bush. Obama’s appointments are pro-abortion.
Yes, there is a difference in the parties when it comes to abortion.
Will I ever favor a Democrat? Not as long as they are pro-abortion, I won’t. You probably missed where I favor Senator Joe Manchin, though. Notwithstanding that he is a Democrat, I would vote for him for president, and certainly over Trump. He isn’t perfect in his prolife position, but he very nearly is. In fact, if you had researched my posts, you would even see that I expressed the (undoubtedly foolish) wish that Trump would name him as his VP running mate, which would put Manchin in line to ultimately win the office.
But since he is almost totally prolife, the Dems will never nominate him unless he is VP first.
Nice try, but no cigar.
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GaryTaylor
Guest
Whats rhetoric, single issue voters proposed above because no-one knows who they are? Sure is rhetoric but the fact is you have no answer? Hillary kills 1-mil a year. Thats already verified. As is the Church documentation on intrinsic evil. Its speculation to assume what someone will do as opposed to knowing what another is doing and will continue to do.
I don’t see the great value of that point nor can it be rationalized by the priority of the Church with intrinsic evil.
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