Trump v. Clinton matchup has Catholic leaders scrambling

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Ridgerunner said:
To my understanding, he spoke approvingly of waterboarding, which the Church has never condemned.
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The Church condemns torture. She doesn’t have to list every imaginable kind of torture for a moral person to determine that it is gravely sinful to torture another human being:
2297 Kidnapping and hostage taking bring on a reign of terror; by means of threats they subject their victims to intolerable pressures. They are morally wrong. Terrorism threatens, wounds, and kills indiscriminately; it is gravely against justice and charity.
Torture which uses physical or moral violence to extract confessions, punish the guilty, frighten opponents, or satisfy hatred is contrary to respect for the person and for human dignity. Except when performed for strictly therapeutic medical reasons, directly intended amputations, mutilations, and sterilizations performed on innocent persons are against the moral law.90
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(Catechism of the Catholic Church).
 
jtauke said:
I think I’ve found my message board kindred spirit…😃

Any thoughts on the best, non-Trump/Clinton candidate?
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Me, of course. I embody the very best and brightest, most cogent and lucent views held by anyone on earth. The most moral too. :rolleyes:

Let’s face it. There is never going to be a candidate who fulfills everyone’s wishes.
 
Ridgerunner said:
Another vote for Hillary Clinton and abortion on demand.
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I’m unsurprised you hold that view, but I refuse to be brow beaten by anyone making the claim that not voting for Trump is equal to voting for Clinton.
 
Ridgerunner said:
Nowhere in that does the word “murder” appear. Nor does he say he advocates specifically targeting the families of terrorists. In the context, he was talking about the political correctness that rewards terrorists who hide behind civilians, preventing our forces from attacking them if there is any possibility of collateral deaths.

But he could be wrong in another way. Terrorists might not care very much whether their families die or not. After all, there are those who strap bombs on their own children just to kill Jews or Americans, and Bin Ladin tried to use his wife as a “body shield”.

So Trump might be wrong about that part of it.
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I think 99.9% of the population knows that “take them out” in this context means kill them and since the killing would not be justified because they are not combatants, it would be murder. It’s really very straight forward.
 
OraLabora said:
The Church condemns torture. She doesn’t have to list every imaginable kind of torture for a moral person to determine that it is gravely sinful to torture another human being:

(Catechism of the Catholic Church).
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Your argument to Ridge will fall on deaf ears, believe me, I’ve tried. He doesn’t believe waterboarding is torture and will launch into some morally grey definition of torture when you challenge him on it.

Of course everyone’s entitled to their own opinion.
 
jtauke said:
Your argument to Ridge will fall on deaf ears, believe me, I’ve tried. He doesn’t believe waterboarding is torture and will launch into some morally grey definition of torture when you challenge him on it. 🤷
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At least Trump knows it’s torture, so there is no denying that he would believe that he is going against Church teaching (not that he would care since he is not Catholic).
 
Ridgerunner said:
Me, of course. I embody the very best and brightest, most cogent and lucent views held by anyone on earth. The most moral too. :rolleyes:

Let’s face it. There is never going to be a candidate who fulfills everyone’s wishes.
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Let’s face it, there’s probably a candidate that fulfills more of those wishes than Trumpy or Clinton.
 
TomFromMD said:
And said he would “bring back a hell of a lot worse than waterboarding.”

I can’t in good conscience vote for either of them.
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Join the group! #NeverTrump #NeverHillary

The thing that astounds me is that so many people who claim to be conservative, pro-life, pro-family, etc., etc., stick their heads in the sand when confronted with Trump’s serial adultery, praise for Planned Parenthood, thorough ignorance of foreign and monetary policy, support for torture, on and on ad nauseam. He was pretty much dead-on when he said he could shoot someone on Fifth Avenue and they’d still support him.

Being “angry” is no excuse for supporting a vulgarian with hateful, thoroughly anti-Christian attitudes. To me, this speaks to the utter gullibility of the minority of Republican primary voters who supported him. As his support among non-white voters (nearly a third), women, and young people in the general election will be historically low, the Republicans who made him their candidate will have only themselves to blame when Hillary is elected.
 
If Trump and Clinton are in fact the two main candidates (end even the minor candidates seem no better), then I think the system has failed us. Abstaining from voting may be the only option some f us can sleep with. And no, it is not a vote for the other side since there is no other side.
 
jtauke said:
Let’s face it, there’s probably a candidate that fulfills more of those wishes than Trumpy or Clinton.
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Yes, just not one that stands a chance of winning. Therefore, not going to be doing anything to fulfill those wishes. One positive sign on the Trump side is that he
has hired a strong pro-life advocate as “Top Domestic Policy Director”. His name is
John Mashburn and the story has been reported by the Washington Examiner and

 
jtauke said:
So you, as a Catholic, approve of strapping someone to a table and systematically drowning them them, over, and over, and over?

:confused:
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Have you been asleep when we see that they BEHEAD [and perform so many other atrocious/torturous tactics & acts before **killing their victims], not only men and women but also CHILDREN???! :rolleyes:

“Look, I think we have to change our law on the waterboarding thing, where they can chop off heads and drown people in cages, in heavy steel cages and we can’t water board. We have to change our laws and we have to be able to fight at least on almost equal basis. We have laws that we have to obey in terms of torture. They have no laws whatsoever that they have to obey.”
  • Donald Trump
.
 
Mercy365 said:
Have you been asleep when we see that they BEHEAD [and perform so many other atrocious/torturous tactics & acts before **killing
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their victims], not only men and women but also CHILDREN???! :rolleyes:

“Look, I think we have to change our law on the waterboarding thing, where they can chop off heads and drown people in cages, in heavy steel cages and we can’t water board. We have to change our laws and we have to be able to fight at least on almost equal basis. We have laws that we have to obey in terms of torture. They have no laws whatsoever that they have to obey.”
  • Donald Trump
.

As I was taught and as I used to tell my kids, the way someone else behaves does not justify or excuse your behavior. Wrong is wrong is wrong.
 
Mercy365 said:
Have you been asleep when we see that they BEHEAD [and perform so many other atrocious/torturous tactics & acts before **killing
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their victims], not only men and women but also CHILDREN???! :rolleyes:

“Look, I think we have to change our law on the waterboarding thing, where they can chop off heads and drown people in cages, in heavy steel cages and we can’t water board. We have to change our laws and we have to be able to fight at least on almost equal basis. We have laws that we have to obey in terms of torture. They have no laws whatsoever that they have to obey.”
  • Donald Trump
.

Two wrongs do not make right.
 
Mercy365 said:
Have you been asleep when we see that they BEHEAD [and perform so many other atrocious/torturous tactics & acts before **killing
Click to expand...
their victims], not only men and women but also CHILDREN???! :rolleyes:

“Look, I think we have to change our law on the waterboarding thing, where they can chop off heads and drown people in cages, in heavy steel cages and we can’t water board. We have to change our laws and we have to be able to fight at least on almost equal basis. We have laws that we have to obey in terms of torture. They have no laws whatsoever that they have to obey.”
  • Donald Trump
.

One good turn deserves another then?:confused::confused:

We cannot and should not lower ourselves to the same immorality of those we fight against.
 
dixieagle said:
Join the group! #NeverTrump #NeverHillary

The thing that astounds me is that so many people who claim to be conservative, pro-life, pro-family, etc., etc., stick their heads in the sand when confronted with Trump’s serial adultery, praise for Planned Parenthood, thorough ignorance of foreign and monetary policy, support for torture, on and on ad nauseam. He was pretty much dead-on when he said he could shoot someone on Fifth Avenue and they’d still support him.

Being “angry” is no excuse for supporting a vulgarian with hateful, thoroughly anti-Christian attitudes. To me, this speaks to the utter gullibility of the minority of Republican primary voters who supported him. As his support among non-white voters (nearly a third), women, and young people in the general election will be historically low, the Republicans who made him their candidate will have only themselves to blame when Hillary is elected.
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I agree with this post completely. I have mentioned a number of times, he hasn’t ever been involved with New York prolife groups. No monetary support, no vocal support. I haven’t seen any proof that he’s prolife other than it’s convenient for him to say it, and his friends didn’t have an abortion and now they have a “superstar”

So me too. #NeverTrump #NeverHillary
 
Crossbones said:
That and the murdering terrorists’ families, which is against Catholic teaching as well.
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And a little known thing called the GENEVA CONVENTION, seriously I almost want to vote for him to trap him so that when he does that he gets convicted as a war criminal and gets impeached. problem would be that would open a door for a clinton intervention. Honestly, some days I feel like I could be a better president than these childish candidates.

Edit: Whoops forgot to Cite my source. It is located here:law.cornell.edu/wex/geneva_conventions
 
jtauke said:
I’m unsurprised you hold that view, but I refuse to be brow beaten by anyone making the claim that not voting for Trump is equal to voting for Clinton.
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You are either too young to remember elections past or you have a faulty memory. No one has attempted to brow beat you into anything, just stating what has been proven to be true in the past. That you choose to be “brow-beaten” by that is on you.😉
 
There is no delimma here. Vote 3rd party, write in a vote or simply don’t vote. I feel like I keep typing this over and over. It’s not hard people! :rolleyes:
 
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