T
TMC
Guest
The Church specifically allows us to vote for whichever candidate we believe to be the best candidate after considering all of the issues. The Church does not support single issue voting.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
- Status
- Not open for further replies.
G
GaryTaylor
Guest
Well thats not all together true, as from the USCCB…The Church specifically allows us to vote for whichever candidate we believe to be the best candidate after considering all of the issues. The Church does not support single issue voting.
However its quite different in regards to pro-abortion.single issue is not sufficient to guarantee a voter’s support.
As Pope John Paul II explains in his encyclical, Evangelium Vitae (The Gospel of Life), “…when it is not possible to overturn or completely abrogate a pro-abortion law, an elected official, whose absolute personal opposition to procured abortion was well known, could licitly support proposals aimed at limiting the harm done by such a law and at lessening its negative consequences at the level of general opinion and morality. This does not in fact represent an illicit cooperation with an unjust law, but rather a legitimate and proper attempt to limit its evil aspects.” Logically, it follows from these words of the Pope that a voter may likewise vote for that candidate who will most likely limit the evils of abortion or any other moral evil at issue.
- What if none of the candidates are completely pro-life?
In such a case, the Catholic voter may clearly choose to vote for the candidate not likely to win. In addition, the Catholic voter may assess that voting for that candidate might only benefit the completely pro-abortion candidate, and, precisely for the purpose of curtailing the evil of abortion, decide to vote for the leading candidate that is anti-abortion but not perfectly so. This decision would be in keeping with the words of the Pope quoted in question 8 above.
- What if one leading candidate is anti-abortion except in the cases of rape or incest, another leading candidate is completely pro-abortion, and a trailing candidate, not likely to win, is completely anti-abortion. Would I be obliged to vote for the candidate not likely to win?
ewtn.com/vote/brief_catechism.htmExcept in the case in which a voter is faced with all pro-abortion candidates (in which case, as explained in question 8 above, he or she strives to determine which of them would cause the let damage in this regard), a candidate that is pro-abortion disqualifies himself from receiving a Catholic’s vote. This is because being pro-abortion cannot simply be placed alongside the candidate’s other positions on Medicare and unemployment, for example; and this is because abortion is intrinsically evil and cannot be morally justified for any reason or set of circumstances. To vote for such a candidate even with the knowledge that the candidate is pro-abortion is to become an accomplice in the moral evil of abortion. If the voter also knows this, then the voter sins mortally.
- Is it a mortal sin to vote for a pro-abortion candidate?
W
Wesrock
Guest
My problem with Trump isn’t just that I disagree with his views, it’s that I feel like he’s leading a surge of populism and will broadly expand executive power in ways previously unthinkable and essentially, and this feels like only a slight stretching of the truth, pave the way for a populist dictatorship in practice if not in name. I just listen to him and get the vibe he’d be the US’ Vladimir Putin, and have little regard for things such as normal political processes or the Constitution. It will probably never get so far, but that’s the vibe I get about Trump’s character. I’d much rather have had Cruz or Kasich.
Just my two cents.
Not saying I’m voting for Hillary or Sanders, but doesn’t mean I have to be happy about Trump, either. My inly hope is that he’d appoint more conservative judges on abortion and other such issues.
I’m agreeing more and more with G.K. Chesterton about the cyclical nature of secular society. We’ll see dictatorships and what not again. It’s not just one big forward march of progress.
Just my two cents.
Not saying I’m voting for Hillary or Sanders, but doesn’t mean I have to be happy about Trump, either. My inly hope is that he’d appoint more conservative judges on abortion and other such issues.
I’m agreeing more and more with G.K. Chesterton about the cyclical nature of secular society. We’ll see dictatorships and what not again. It’s not just one big forward march of progress.
Z
zz912
Guest
There is no candidate running in the Democratic field that a Catholic can in good conscience vote for this year.OK, so I guess we agree that nothing in Church teaching requires a Catholic to vote Republican, and that a Catholic can in good conscience decide to vote for a Democrat, for a third party, or not to vote at all. I am glad we cleared that up.
A Catholic could vote for Trump if they believed they would be voting to limit evil. And a Catholic could vote for a pro-life 3rd party candidate (which I will be doing). There is no candidate in the DNC field that a Catholic can vote for and remain faithful to the teachings of the Church.
C
Crossbones
Guest
If you read the USCCB’s Forming Consciences for Faithful Citizenship, it saysWell thats not all together true, as from the USCCB…
However its quite different in regards to pro-abortion.
ewtn.com/vote/brief_catechism.htm
"During election years, there may be many handouts and voter guides that are produced and distributed. We encourage Catholics to seek those resources authorized by their own bishops, their state Catholic conferences, and the United
States Conference of Catholic Bishops. This statement is intended to reflect and complement, not substitute for, the ongoing teaching of bishops in our own dioceses and states. "
So, the bishops seem to be warning us away from voter’s guides like the one you just posted.
Z
zz912
Guest
No, no you can’t. Hillary Clinton is WORSE on the intrinsic evils compared to Trump, so there is no way for a Christian to vote for Clinton and remain faithful to the teachings of the Church.With Trump being the alternative, I can easily and morally vote for HRC.
Z
zz912
Guest
Hillary Clinton is an avid and full-throated supporter of abortion and wishes to fully fund by taxpayer money and remove all restrictions from it entirely. She is pro-abortion. Your ill-formed opinion does not change facts nor reality.Of course Hillary is not “a (sic) avid supporter of abortion.” That’s rhetoric and I truly believe you know it. Hillary believe in the wisdom and justice of Roe v. Wade, just like most of the citizens in our country.
I don’t believe there’s an “abortion industry.” Again, that’s rhetoric. I do believe that there are a host of OB/GYN issues that all women may or may not face during the course of their lives and that sometimes abortion (both spontaneous and planned) is one of the issues a woman may face in the course of her life. The industry that addresses these issues is called the healthcare industry.
The anti-choice movement is a paper tiger. I honestly don’t believe that most members of the movement believe that every 5th woman they meet is a cold-blooded killer. If the movement really believed what they say they believe, they would want those women prosecuted and punished.
Now, maybe you are someone who believes women who have abortions should spend the rest of their days in prison or go to the electric chair. If so, congratulations on your logical coherence. If not, you - like most in the “formal movement” - have no chops to back up the rhetoric.
And your slurs and insults toward the prolife community and those fighting for the lives of unborn babies is horrific.
Your opinion only. It perfectly encapsulates the evil permeating those who favor abortion.“Culture of death” is rhetorical. It’s entire raison d’être is to shame people.
C
Crossbones
Guest
Has Trump provided the list of people he thinks would make good Supreme Court Justices yet?Yes you may And when Hillary Clinton appoints 4 new Liberal Justices to the USSC please don’t complain to those of us who made the tough decision to vote for a flawed candidate in an attempt to stop this.
G
GaryTaylor
Guest
EWTN is an apostolate of the Church.So, the bishops seem to be warning us away from voter’s guides like the one you just posted.
C
Crossbones
Guest
So which diocese runs it?EWTN is an apostolate of the Church.
T
TMC
Guest
You are not quoting the USCCB. You are quoting a document from EWTN. The USCCB and the Vatican Congregation for the Doctrine of Faith say:Well thats not all together true, as from the USCCB…
However its quite different in regards to pro-abortion.
ewtn.com/vote/brief_catechism.htm
usccb.org/issues-and-action/faithful-citizenship/upload/forming-consciences-for-faithful-citizenship.pdfThe Christian faith is an integral unity,and thus it is incoherent to isolate some particular element to the detriment of the whole of Catholic doctrine. A political commitment to a single isolated aspect of the Church’s social doctrine does not exhaust one’s responsibility toward the common good.
I would suggest that any Catholic who is not sure what the Church teaches should read the document at the above link, which contains the teaching of the US bishops on the issue.
T
TMC
Guest
A Catholic could be justified in voting for any candidate that the Catholic believed best promotes good and limits evil. Both major party candidates are at odds with Church teaching in important ways. A Catholic must evaluate each and choose according to his or her conscience. The partisan portrayal on this forum that Church teaching somehow precludes or mandates one party is just that - partisanship, and nothing more.There is no candidate running in the Democratic field that a Catholic can in good conscience vote for this year.
A Catholic could vote for Trump if they believed they would be voting to limit evil. And a Catholic could vote for a pro-life 3rd party candidate (which I will be doing). There is no candidate in the DNC field that a Catholic can vote for and remain faithful to the teachings of the Church.
T
TMC
Guest
The USCCB is made up of the successors of the apostles. When the two disagree, I think I will go with the bishops.EWTN is an apostolate of the Church.
P
pete_29
Guest
Birmingham, Alabama I think.So which diocese runs it?
Z
zz912
Guest
You keep trying to muddy the water and deflect from the issue. As pointed out, there are no acceptable candidates in the DNC field that are acceptable to vote for. They are both WORSE on the issues dealing with intrinsic evils than any other candidate available. One could vote for Trump if they believed he would limit the evil of the DNC candidates. But there’s no scenario where a vote for Hillary or Bernie would be limiting an intrinsic evil.A Catholic could be justified in voting for any candidate that the Catholic believed best promotes good and limits evil. Both major party candidates are at odds with Church teaching in important ways. A Catholic must evaluate each and choose according to his or her conscience. The partisan portrayal on this forum that Church teaching somehow precludes or mandates one party is just that - partisanship, and nothing more.
Z
zz912
Guest
The USCCB has no teaching authority, and has a spotty record at best in the past. EWTN has actually been more faithful to Church teaching over the last few decades.The USCCB is made up of the successors of the apostles. When the two disagree, I think I will go with the bishops.
L
LittleFlower378
Guest
Relevant Radio Host Sheila Laugminas talks with guests on her Monday show on what Catholics are to do at this point concerning the political scene(Link Below)
relevantradio.streamguys.us/ACL/ACL20160509.mp3
relevantradio.streamguys.us/ACL/ACL20160509.mp3
J
jtauke
Guest
What teaching authority does EWTN have?The USCCB has no teaching authority, and has a spotty record at best in the past. EWTN has actually been more faithful to Church teaching over the last few decades.
#nevertrump
M
Maximilan_Kolbe
Guest
You’re never going to get certain folks on the left to admit the DNC runs candidates that are incompatible with out faith. Never going to happen. The party has been doing that since Mondale at least, and if it hasn’t happened since the McDLT was on the menu, it is unlikely to suddenly happen now.You keep trying to muddy the water and deflect from the issue. As pointed out, there are no acceptable candidates in the DNC field that are acceptable to vote for. They are both WORSE on the issues dealing with intrinsic evils than any other candidate available. One could vote for Trump if they believed he would limit the evil of the DNC candidates. But there’s no scenario where a vote for Hillary or Bernie would be limiting an intrinsic evil.
The difference with the avowed conservatives on the board is that they are in many cases saying they cannot in good conscience vote for Trump. Good on them for that. They are putting faith into practice vis-à-vis the political process.
T
TMC
Guest
You are entitled to that opinion. Millions of Catholics disagree with you. What you are not entitled to do is to misrepresent Church teaching to other Catholics. The Church does not mandate voting for Donald Trump (or any Republican) or preclude voting for Hillary Clinton (or any Democrat). Each Catholic must reach their own decision.You keep trying to muddy the water and deflect from the issue. As pointed out, there are no acceptable candidates in the DNC field that are acceptable to vote for. They are both WORSE on the issues dealing with intrinsic evils than any other candidate available. One could vote for Trump if they believed he would limit the evil of the DNC candidates. But there’s no scenario where a vote for Hillary or Bernie would be limiting an intrinsic evil.
- Status
- Not open for further replies.