Trump v GOP

[Path_Finder]

Making up rumors about other candidates out of thin air? The burden of proof is on you.

And I just remembered, cruz also made up stuff about carson, in iowa.

From the article:

Cruz pointed to S&A Concrete, which built Trump Tower, and other media reports linking the billionaire businessman to the mafia.

Also, this is from 1988 but there was a 1994 article in the web search too:

**
MOB ROLE IN NEW YORK CONSTRUCTION DEPICTED**

WASHINGTON, April 29— Organized crime controls 75 percent of the construction industry in New York City through its control over the concrete industry and construction unions, an admitted mob captain told Senators today.

Vincent (Fish) Cafaro, a former captain in the Genovese organized-crime family in New York, told the Senate Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations that the Mafia rigged contracting bids in the city by demanding a 2 percent kickback from winning bidders and their unions.

‘‘Legitimate guys ain’t got a chance,’’ he said.

nytimes.com/1988/04/30/nyregion/mob-role-in-new-york-construction-depicted.html

As I said, best to vet now, rather than later. Unfortunately, tax returns are usually released but maybe not always.

 

[Path_Finder]

I should have just put this thread in the “Trump vs. GOP” thread, now it is in there, I forgot.

 

[queenofheartscv]

From the article:

Also, this is from 1988 but there was a 1994 article in the web search too:

As I said, best to vet now, rather than later. Unfortunately, tax returns are usually released but maybe not always.

Again, how do you find mafia ties on tax returns?

Mitt Romney didn’t show his tax return until September of the election year.

What’s more, when mitt Romney was wrongly accused by Harry raid of never having paid taxes for 10 years, trump came to his defense on tv interviews. For mitt Romney to harp on this issue now is despicable.

 

[Stylteralmaldo]

Ok now you are at least trying to cite proof. Whether this is in the same league we can leave it for people to judge.

Well, you’re the one who made the claim that Trump doesn’t pull things out of thin air. Under normal circumstances, the burden of proof would be the one making the claim - which is you. However, the nature of your claim is to say he doesn’t do something, so to prove he doesn’t do something reverses the circumstance. Sadly, it didn’t take me long to find something, and it occurred recently to boot.

 

[queenofheartscv]

Well, you’re the one who made the claim that Trump doesn’t pull things out of thin air. Under normal circumstances, the burden of proof would be the one making the claim - which is you. However, the nature of your claim is to say he doesn’t do something, when in fact he does.

I didn’t make the claim. Go back and read my post. I simply said, when did he do it?

 

[Path_Finder]

Again, how do you find mafia ties on tax returns?

Mitt Romney didn’t show his tax return until September of the election year.

What’s more, when mitt Romney was wrongly accused by Harry raid of never having paid taxes for 10 years, trump came to his defense on tv interviews. For mitt Romney to harp on this issue now is despicable.

“Again, how do you find mafia ties on tax returns?”

S & A Concrete, already stated, that is whom Cruz mentioned… If one gets dividends, payments from or to a questionable company, that could show at least some business with a criminally related enterprise.

The contract mentioned below may not involved Trump but it is the same company that is being questioned.

The contract was awarded to** S&A Concrete Co**., a concern partly owned by Anthony Salerno, first among the nation’s organized crime bosses, who is now serving a 100-year prison sentence for being part of the Mafia’s ruling Commission. **S&A thought the job could be done for a shade over $30 million. The only other bid was a suspiciously high $41 million. A Connecticut contractor spent three months working up a bid that would have been under S&A’**s, then dropped out at the last minute after a visit and a couple of phone calls from a Salerno lackey. Says Thomas Galvin, former chief executive of the convention center and now president of Xerox Realty Corp.: ''It was an open secret that concrete was Mafia-controlled.’’ During the past decade, 17 federal, state, and city investigative agencies have been probing New York’s crime-ridden construction industry. This scrutiny has resulted in scores of indictments and convictions. Just two weeks ago, Salerno and Vincent DiNapoli, another partner in S&A Concrete, were convicted of racketeering in federal district court in Manhattan, along with three other mobsters and four of their business associates.

archive.fortune.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/1988/06/06/70628/index.htm

 

[gracepoole]

For someone to be heavily involved in NY construction and *not *be tied in with the mob – *that *would be the bigger surprise.

 

[Path_Finder]

I didn’t make the claim. Go back and read my post. I simply said, when did he do it?

Trump was talking about that house Rubio bought and then sold at a profit.

 

[queenofheartscv]

Well, you’re the one who made the claim that Trump doesn’t pull things out of thin air. Under normal circumstances, the burden of proof would be the one making the claim - which is you. However, the nature of your claim is to say he doesn’t do something, so to prove he doesn’t do something reverses the circumstance. Sadly, it didn’t take me long to find something, and it occurred recently to boot.

Trump was talking about that house Rubio bought and then sold at a profit.

That part was a blur for me at the debate. I didn’t catch if the house was sold for way over market price or under. Any links on this?

 

[queenofheartscv]

“Again, how do you find mafia ties on tax returns?”

S & A Concrete, already stated, that is whom Cruz mentioned… If one gets dividends, payments from or to a questionable company, that could show at least some business with a criminally related enterprise.

The contract mentioned below may not involved Trump but it is the same company that is being questioned.

archive.fortune.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/1988/06/06/70628/index.htm

Even if you can find evidence of mafia ties, trump has been audited every year. Wouldn’t they have found out by now?

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

It sounds here like Cruz took a page out of Trump’s own playbook. This is yet another ridiculous distraction in this somewhat odd campaign season.

No, see, Trump hasn’t released his tax returns because he’s being audited.

AND, poor thing is being audited because he’s a strong Christian.

In explaining why the Internal Revenue Service audits him every year, Donald Trump suggested Thursday night that the government agency has unfairly targeted him because of his religion.

“I’m always audited by the IRS, which I think is very unfair — I don’t know, maybe because of religion, maybe because of something else, maybe because I’m doing this, although this is just recently,” Trump said in an interview with CNN’s Chris Cuomo immediately following the 10th GOP debate on Thursday night.

Cuomo cut in: “What do you mean religion?”

“Well, maybe because of the fact that I’m a strong Christian, and I feel strongly about it and maybe there’s a bias,” Trump said.

Cuomo cut in again: “You think you can get audited for being a strong Christian?”

Poor man. I feel terrible about his audit.

washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2016/02/26/donald-trump-says-irs-audits-could-be-tied-to-being-a-strong-christian/?tid=a_inl

And, not sure if it’s been mentioned, today Mr. Trump retweeted a quote originally claimed by Benito Mussolini.

Mr. Trump, in an interview on NBC’s “Meet the Press,” said he was unaware that it had been a quote from Mussolini. But he didn’t seem to care.

“It’s a very good quote,” said Mr. Trump. “I didn’t know who said it, but what difference does it make if it was Mussolini or somebody else — it’s a very good quote.”

Asked whether he wanted to be associated with Mr. Mussolini, Mr. Trump replied, ‘No, I want to be associated with interesting quotes.” And he added, “Hey, it got your attention, didn’t it?”

Poor man, how could he possible know that a tweet from a Twitter account called “Ilduce2016” could have anything at all with Mussolini?

nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2016/02/28/donald-trump-retweets-post-likening-him-to-mussolini/

 

[Path_Finder]

Even if you can find evidence of mafia ties, trump has been audited every year. Wouldn’t they have found out by now?

I thought of this, it might not actually break Federal Tax Laws but could nonetheless, be an embarrassment.

 

[Path_Finder]

This is, I admit, all gossipy at this point, here is more:

Portions of Trump’s relationship with Felix Sater, a convicted felon and government informant, have been previously known. Trump worked with the company where Sater was an executive, Bayrock Group LLC, after it rented office space from the Trump Organisation as early as 2003.

Sater’s criminal history was effectively unknown to the public at the time, because a judge kept the relevant court records secret and Sater altered his name. When Sater’s criminal past and Mafia links came to light in 2007, Trump distanced himself from Sater.

But less than three years later, Trump renewed his ties with Sater. Sater presented business cards describing himself as a senior adviser to Donald Trump, and he had an office on the same floor as Trump’s own office in New York’s Trump Tower, the Associated Press learnt through interviews and court records.

Trump said during an interview this week that he recalled only bare details of Sater.

“Felix Sater, boy, I have to even think about it,” Trump said, referring questions about Sater to his staff. “I’m not that familiar with him.”

Sater pleaded guilty in 1998 to one count of racketeering for his role in a $40 million stock fraud scheme involving the prominent Genovese and Bonanno crime families, according to court records.

Prosecutors called the operation a pump-and-dump scheme, in which insiders manipulated the price of obscure stocks and then sold them to hapless investors at inflated prices. Five years earlier, a New York state court had sentenced Sater to more than a year in prison for stabbing a man in the face with a broken margarita glass.

irishexaminer.com/world/donald-trump-chose-convicted-felon-to-be-senior-adviser-369827.html

This may indicate nothing but at the same time, I’d think it is fair for his opponents to point this out as connections per Cruz and Rubio that they have seem to be pointed out.

“If Mr Sater was good enough for the government to work with, I see no reason why he wasn’t good enough for Mr Trump,” Garten said.

Sater’s lawyer, Robert Wolf, said information about Sater in public records and lawsuits obtained by the AP was defamatory.** He credited Sater’s stint as a government cooperator with potentially saving American military lives, although he did not provide details**.

.

Nothing here greatly condemning so far.

 

[queenofheartscv]

“Again, how do you find mafia ties on tax returns?”

S & A Concrete, already stated, that is whom Cruz mentioned… If one gets dividends, payments from or to a questionable company, that could show at least some business with a criminally related enterprise.

The contract mentioned below may not involved Trump but it is the same company that is being questioned.

archive.fortune.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/1988/06/06/70628/index.htm

I thought of this, it might not actually break Federal Tax Laws but could nonetheless, be an embarrassment.

If it’s not agains the law, how can it be trouble for trump?

 

[Path_Finder]

If it’s not agains the law, how can it be trouble for trump?

Not against Federal Tax Law; but whether it could be against other laws remains to be seen.

 

[Thorolfr]

Poor man, how could he possible know that a tweet from a Twitter account called “Ilduce2016” could have anything at all with Mussolini?]

Mr Trump probably doesn’t know who Il Duce was. We can’t expect our presidential candidates to know any history can we?

 

[Stylteralmaldo]

I didn’t make the claim. Go back and read my post. I simply said, when did he do it?

Okay, I think I understand your position more clearly. meltzerboy claimed that Cruz took a play out of Trump’s playbook. You concluded that he was referring to Cruz pulling something out of thin air, although melterboy didn’t state it as something made up - just that it was out of the Trump playbook.

I concluded that it was you that made the claim. Technically, I am correct that it was you that brought up the ‘pulling from thin air’ as being the playbook item. meltzerboy merely said it was from the playbook. It’s unclear what he meant and what play from the playbook he was referring.

Regardless of meltzerboy’s intent, I don’t think it’s been determined yet whether Cruz pulled this out of thin air. We do know (based on evidence I provided) that Trump does pull things out of thin air regarding his opponents.

 

[queenofheartscv]

Regardless of meltzerboy’s intent, I don’t think it’s been determined yet whether Cruz pulled this out of thin air. We do know (based on evidence I provided) that Trump does pull things out of thin air regarding his opponents.

If we use that standard, Cruz has done it worse (to Carson). Rubio did too concerning trump’s inheritance of 200 millions dollars. It was actually a false story from the press. Trump got a loan of 1 million from his father and paid it back quickly. His father didn’t die until 1999ish and Trump was already rich by then. On the night of debate Trump’s sister called him and said, hey did Dad really give you that much money, where is my share?

 

[meltzerboy]

“Somewhat” odd?

Poetic license.

 

[queenofheartscv]

Trump was talking about that house Rubio bought and then sold at a profit.

Here is the reference on Rubio and the house sale:

‘He made a $200,000 profit selling a house he owned to the mother of a chiropractor who was lobbying for a change in state insurance rules. Rubio had been a holdout, but removed a block on the measure shortly after the home sale and voted for it,’ Roiz-Fangio wrote.

dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3077531/How-Marco-Rubio-charged-thousands-personal-expenses-Republican-party-credit-card-including-4-000-flooring-Miami-home-hired-ex-Dolphins-cheerleader-wife.html

So it’s wrong to use this example to say Trump makes up stuff out of thin air.