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RidgeSprinter
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Yes, but would that stop Trump and his loyalists?
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billsherman
Guest
It would stop the military. The Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff issued a memo prior to the election that the military has no role in political affairs.Yes, but would that stop Trump and his loyalists?
“The U.S. military will have no role in the peaceful transition of power, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Mark Milley told U.S. generals and network anchors in an off-the-record call Saturday, a source told Axios.”
https://www.newsmax.com/us/military-peaceful-transition-of-power-mark-milley/2020/11/03/id/995133/
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RidgeSprinter
Guest
What if Trump replaces him in the next week or two?It would stop the military. The Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff issued a memo prior to the election that the military has no role in political affairs.
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billsherman
Guest
I will have faith that our nation’s top generals will respect the Constitution, until I am shown evidence that they won’t.What if Trump replaces him in the next week or two?
It is only fair - and appropriate - to require evidence for both election fraud and fear of a military coup.
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RidgeSprinter
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I hope you are right.I will have faith that our nation’s top generals will respect the Constitution, until I am shown evidence that they won’t.
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Zzyzx_Road
Guest
Not if it falls to the House. Per the 12th Amendment, the vote is by state, not by individual representatives as you are attempting to state here. At this time, the Republican Party has a slight edge based on the current count. 26 states have majority Republicans in their representatives; 23 states have majority Democrats; 1 is tied ¶. Owing to that Democrats lost seats in this election and it will be the new Congress that is seated on January 3rd who will decide the outcome if it falls to them, this count will not likely improve in the Democrats’ favor after January 3.Biden still gets elected according to Fox News.
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MikeInVA
Guest
Every service member has a moral obligation to disobey an illegal, immoral or unethical order. Obeying an order that is illegal, immoral or unethical because “it’s an order from an officer” is still wrong. Maybe look up the Nuernburg Trials to understand that individuals have a moral obligation to disobey in certain situations.There is no option to not immediately disobey.
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TMC
Guest
I agree. There are other things to be concerned about, however. One is that he will order an immediate full withdrawal from Afghanistan and/or Iraq. He wanted to do that this year so that he could say he fulfilled that campaign promise, but top military leaders were against it. That would be a lawful order that the military would follow - even if they thought it unwise. I don’t see that happening. What would be in it for him (which is the right question to ask about any Trump action)? Also, if that were the goal, why not fire the CJCS or the commander in the theater?I will have faith that our nation’s top generals will respect the Constitution, until I am shown evidence that they won’t.
It is only fair - and appropriate - to require evidence for both election fraud and fear of a military coup.
The other concern that I hear is that he will force the declassification of sensitive information. There have been rumors for some time that there is some specific Russian intel that Trump thinks makes him look good, but that it is too sensitive to release publicly. The fact that he has fired the GC of NSA and is making noise about the Director of the CIA gives some credence to this one. But… he doesn’t have to fire anyone to do this. He could literally call a press conference and just say it, while simultaneously announcing that he is declassifying it. So that doesn’t make sense to me.
The thing that does make sense is simply that he is taking out petty revenge on people that annoy him. It has been scuttlebutt around the Pentagon for some time (I still have friends there) that he wants to fire Esper but wanted to wait until after the election for political reasons.
Short version - troubling behavior, but (hopefully) just ordinary Trump pettiness, not grand conspiracy.
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Zzyzx_Road
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I have wanted us to leave Afghanistan for years now. The famous graveyard of empires. By what hubris did our leadership pre-Trump somehow think they would do better than the Arabs, the Mongolians, the Indians, the British and the Russians before them? At this point, we have more than overstayed our welcome and we need to go. Any niceties bandied about in recent years only represent more excuses why we can’t leave. This is a point the generals don’t want to understand; they just want to keep sacrificing our young men for their own ends, but most civilians have had it with this war. We’re done. There is no one I know who wants us to stick around there.
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RidgeSprinter
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Two DHS officials forced to resign by White House
From CNN’s Alex Marquardt and Geneva Sands
Two Department of Homeland Security officials have been forced to resign by the White House, according to sources familiar with the resignations.
A top official in DHS’ cyber arm has resigned, amid a national security shakeup by the Trump administration. Bryan Ware has served as assistant director for cybersecurity at the Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency. And DHS Assistant Secretary for International Affairs Valerie Boyd also resigned amid pressure from the White House, officials tell CNN.
DHS, CISA and the White House declined to comment.
Ware’s resignation letter, seen by CNN, is addressed to President Trump and says his resignation is effective Friday. In it, he writes that it has been an honor to serve, highlighting his work on election security and the Covid-19 response.
But his farewell letter to staff indicates that he did not want to step down.
He says that he is leaving “with much sadness” and that “it’s too soon.” He went on to list their accomplishments during his tenure. “We secured election day from foreign interference. Boom!” he wrote.
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ChuckB
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Not according to this article:Even then if it is a perceived crime they still have to obey immediately and question it later.
> So, to obey, or not to obey? It depends on the order. Military members disobey orders at their own risk. They also obey orders at their own risk. An order to commit a crime is unlawful.
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RidgeSprinter
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I stand corrected. But it will not come to it. A tie is not probable.Not if it falls to the House. Per the 12th Amendment, the vote is by state , not by individual representatives as you are attempting to state here. At this time, the Republican Party has a slight edge based on the current count. 26 states have majority Republicans in their representatives; 23 states have majority Democrats; 1 is tied ¶. Owing to that Democrats lost seats in this election and it will be the new Congress that is seated on January 3rd who will decide the outcome if it falls to them, this count will not likely improve in the Democrats’ favor after January 3.
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pnewton
Guest
I understand. I choose to look at why it is virtually impossible.Sorry if I misread your post. I just find any hypothetical talk about a military coup to be so wrong on so many levels that it makes me see red.
You beat me too it. “I was only following orders” did not fly then and it would not be acceptable today.Every service member has a moral obligation to disobey an illegal, immoral or unethical order.
Yes, but not all Republicans are backing the current president in his legal attempt. I would bet at least half of the states would refuse to vote for him if he tried to stop the EC by force. Maybe all. Republicans and Democrats (most) are Americans first. Trump’s only path would be a legal one, through the courts, before each state selects electors.At this time, the Republican Party has a slight edge based on the current count. 26 states have majority Republicans in their representatives; 23 states have majority Democrats; 1 is tied ¶.
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GKMotley
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As I was consistently taught, as was invariably promulgated, during my 20 years+ military service.
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tootle_toot
Guest
The shake-up might be in preparation for an attack an Iran’s nuclear weapon’s laboratories which are tunneled into mountains and can only be taken out by atomic bombs. Such an attack might provoke enough outrage in the USA to allow Trump to declare martial law and to then invalidate the recent election.
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ChuckB
Guest
As many have mentioned here before, as clearly stated in the Constitution, Trump’s term of office ends at noon on January 20. Even if he had some magic trick he could use to “invalidate the recent election,” his term would still end at that time. He would no longer be the POTUS. He would no longer have the authority to declare martial law. To attempt to do so would be an act of insurrection.
All that said, it wouldn’t surprise me if he attempted it.
All that said, it wouldn’t surprise me if he attempted it.
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Balto1
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Trump’s open contempt for the military is probably why he dropped 10 points with military voters versus 2016.
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Petra202
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Tats a very big falsehood! Trump doesn’t have contempt for the military! All the attention to building up the military and fixing the VA! Get serious before quoting some liberal msm headlines!
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GKMotley
Guest
It’s also currently my all-time favorite post, in roughly 18 years of being on the board.
Other than some of my own, of course.
Other than some of my own, of course.
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Zzyzx_Road
Guest
No wonder Esper was fired. Per this article from RT, he sent Trump a memo recommending to hold the Afghanistan deployment at 4500 soldiers. Fired two days later. More here. Yes it’s RT, but who the heck is going to talk honestly about this among the mainstream press? They want the perpetual war, they got it back with Biden in spades and what’s worse is people voted for return of those wars.
https://www.rt.com/usa/506746-miller-afghanistan-withdrawal/
Key quote from the new SecDef’s letter:
When we see escalation within months beyond anything Trump ever contemplated, you Biden voters better not come here crying about it, y’all voted for that.
https://www.rt.com/usa/506746-miller-afghanistan-withdrawal/
Key quote from the new SecDef’s letter:
Amen.We are not a people of perpetual war. It is the antithesis of everything for which we stand and for which our ancestors fought. All wars must end.
When we see escalation within months beyond anything Trump ever contemplated, you Biden voters better not come here crying about it, y’all voted for that.
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