Truth in a Restaurant

[Balance]

Ani Ibi:

Yes, it is in the process of working. gilliam has posted a veritable mountain of links on the progress being made against terrorists. As for it having worked, it isn’t over yet.

A war against a kind of behaviour. Behaviour is not abstract.

Terrorists are nationless.

I think the bone we are picking is with the behaviour undertaken by those who have adopetd OBL’s fatwa as their mission.

That is blaming the victim and is visibly offered with no supporting argumentation or reference to an authoritative source. Please explain why you believe that it is breeding more terror.

I suspect that the sarcasm of this reply has occluded its meaning. Can you explain what you mean please?

Are you suggesting that there is not a Just War? If so, then please give support for this suggestion. You may have to start a new thread on the Moral Theology forum as that is where Just War Doctrine is normally discussed.

crikey.

you sound offended - is that right? if not, I’m sorry but I’m not going to argue more - I havent the headspace for it right now. if so, I’m sorry too.

i wouldn’t call it sarcasm- more like irony.

 

[Ani_Ibi]

Balance:

i thought you were an american because you were objecting to me saying America has an imperialistic foreign policy.

I am asking you to give support for making this accusation. My request is an appeal to reason, not a statement of my nationality.

 

[Balance]

i’m not going to explain what you want me to - it’s not just me saying these things - theyre widely held views.

point taken though - if that’s what youve been tryin gto do , make a point - I need to know what I’m saying before I say it. Stay away from sloganeering and jargon and so on.

consider me chastened.

 

[Balance]

Ani Ibi:

It is not my responsibility to find this out for myself. You made the claim. It is your responsibility to back it up.

This is not evidence. It is simply another accusation.

not my responsibilty at all. if we were talking face to face and I had a book about this I’d give you the book and say read it - because the book would say it better than I could.

again, the facts of who got the contracts are public knowledge, easily researched. there’s no great secret there. go look it up.

 

[Ani_Ibi]

Balance:

if what you’re getting at is that I’m making comments and not backing them up, I accept that.

Noted.

Balance:

that is because it’s the middle of the night, I’m knackered and am in the middle of writing a long essay so my heads not with it.

Are you suggesting that this is not the best time for you to be attempting to explain your position?

Balance:

ripe for generalisations and inflammatory comments. like rampant imperialsim.

So, when you are not tired and not in the middle of writing an essay, we can expect you to avoid generalizations and inflammatory comments? Is my understanding correct?

Balance:

saying that, I do satnd by it.

Having said that this is not the best time for you to be attempting to explain you position and that, when you are not tired and in the middle of an essay, you might be better prepared to avoid generalizations and inflammatory comments: you are still standing by your generalizations and inflammatory comments? You are justifying this how?

Balance:

I’m just not going to argue it with you.

Then I will conclude that you have conceded the point and that rampant American imperialism cannot be demonstrated.

Better luck on your essay!

 

[Ani_Ibi]

Balance:

and that tag sticks. it sure does.

Not to the folks you threw it out to. That tag is as slippery as a tadpole in Spring.

Balance:

there’s a Kiwi troubadour who sings a song called “Rome” about being “out here on the edge of an empire” referring to the USA - comparing it to imperial rome. maybe that’s what got me started today.

New Zealand. Hhhmm. I think the empire referred to would be the British Empire, would it not? On the other hand, there are population pressures in your part of the world from places other than England, are there not?

 

[walstan]

Lance:

Depends on where you are now. Do you have any talents that NZ is short on? If you really want to go you should contact one of the embassies. If you live in the US you will be free to leave anytime you like, I don’t know about other countries.

Name one nation we have taken over. If we were imperialistic we would control western Europe, Japan and much of the rest of the world that we liberated from the Axis in WW II.

Diego Garcia!

mydiegogarcia.com/

I think that’s one? Or is it so small it doesn’t count?

Britain faces challenge over Chagos islands. The British government says it wants to be as practical and positive as it can in dealing with the grievances of hundreds of Indian Ocean islanders. They were removed from their homes in the British-owned Chagos Archipelago thirty years ago to make way for the American air and naval base on Diego Garcia.

 

[Balance]

Ani Ibi:

Not to the folks you threw it out to. That tag is as slippery as a tadpole in Spring.

New Zealand. Hhhmm. I think the empire referred to would be the British Empire, would it not? On the other hand, there are population pressures in your part of the world from places other than England, are there not?

good heavens - no, not the british empire, the us empire. i’ve heard him talking about the song.

 

[Ani_Ibi]

Balance:

i’m not going to explain what you want me to

Then please have the kindness not to make the accusations in the first place.

Balance:

it’s not just me saying these things - theyre widely held views.

This is an appeal to the popularity of a view which is a kind of fallacy. Just because a view is held by a large number of people does not necessarily mean that that view has been derived by the process of logical examination. See the Nizcor Project for details.

Balance:

point taken though - if that’s what youve been tryin gto do , make a point - I need to know what I’m saying before I say it. Stay away from sloganeering and jargon and so on.

This will be helpful in writing your essay. Looks like you chanced across this forum just in time.

 

[Balance]

Ani Ibi:

Noted.

Are you suggesting that this is not the best time for you to be attempting to explain your position?

So, when you are not tired and not in the middle of writing an essay, we can expect you to avoid generalizations and inflammatory comments? Is my understanding correct?

Having said that this is not the best time for you to be attempting to explain you position and that, when you are not tired and in the middle of an essay, you might be better prepared to avoid generalizations and inflammatory comments: you are still standing by your generalizations and inflammatory comments? You are justifying this how?

Then I will conclude that you have conceded the point and that rampant American imperialism cannot be demonstrated.

Better luck on your essay!

I’m standing by this: that America’s foreign policy is more aggresive than it should be. that it’s policy seems to be often about money and power, and gaining and maintaining those.

how’s that for you. a little more carefull worded. I’ll say imperialsism to my self anfd those words to you.

no, i havent conceded the point.

you seem pretty sure of yourself, pretty proud of your own argument - can you explain why the USA govt shouldn’t be referred to as imperialistic?

no, don’t bother, I’m signing out now.

 

[Balance]

Ani Ibi:

This will be helpful in writing your essay. Looks like you chanced across this forum just in time.

we have an expression for this kind of comment here - you’re taking the pi$s.

but that’s ok - it made me smile.

 

[Ani_Ibi]

walstan:

Diego Garcia! Or is it so small it doesn’t count?

If it is small then whatever imperialism may be in question would not be ‘rampant.’

I doubt seriously if taking over a tiny place fits the goals of imperialism.

Now New Zealand or Australia: those are not tiny places, are they?

 

[Balance]

Ani Ibi:

If it is small then whatever imperialism may be in question would not be ‘rampant.’

I doubt seriously if taking over a tiny place fits the goals of imperialism.

Now New Zealand or Australia: those are not tiny places, are they?

imperialism by its nature is rampant. me adjectivising it thus was just hyperbole - for effect.

Australia is well on its way to becoming Little America, lead by Deputy Howard.

and you can all get your hands off my New Zealand.

 

[walstan]

Ani Ibi:

If it is small then whatever imperialism may be in question would not be ‘rampant.’

I doubt seriously if taking over a tiny place fits the goals of imperialism.

Now New Zealand or Australia: those are not tiny places, are they?

In other words we have to accept YOUR definition of imperialism, not anybody elses. That figures! Sounds like imperialism to me.

 

[Ani_Ibi]

Balance:

I’m standing by this: that America’s foreign policy is more aggresive than it should be. that it’s policy seems to be often about money and power, and gaining and maintaining those. how’s that for you.

How’s that for me? For me, it is a restatement of an accusation you have already made several times. That makes it a tautology. It also offers nothing in the way of clarification or support. That makes it an illogical tautology. For me.

Balance:

a little more carefull worded. I’ll say imperialsism to my self anfd those words to you.

To what end?

Balance:

no, i havent conceded the point.

You have indicated your unwillingness to google up links to support your point of view. You have indicated your unwillingness to set forth an argument to prove your point of view. Therefore you have conceded the point.

Balance:

you seem pretty sure of yourself, pretty proud of your own argument

This is an ad hominem approach to evading the necessity of proving your own point. My alleged self-confidence or pride is not relevant to the discussion. And I haven’t made a claim. I have merely asked for clarification from you.

Balance:

can you explain why the USA govt shouldn’t be referred to as imperialistic?

Let’s examine your accusation first, shall we?

Balance:

no, don’t bother, I’m signing out now.

Have a g’day.

 

[Ani_Ibi]

Balance:

imperialism by its nature is rampant. me adjectivising it thus was just hyperbole - for effect.

Then please explain how Garcia was imperialism.

Balance:

Australia is well on its way to becoming Little America, lead by Deputy Howard.

Americans are providing the major population pressure in Australia?

Balance:

and you can all get your hands off my New Zealand.

No need for discourtesy.

 

[Ani_Ibi]

walstan:

In other words we have to accept YOUR definition of imperialism, not anybody elses.

I have not given a definition of imperialism. But what I have done is ask that support be given for an accusation concerning rampant American imperalism. One would expect that some link to a credible definition of imperialism might be in order.

Balance:

That figures! Sounds like imperialism to me.

My asking for a credible definition of imperialism sounds like imperialism to you?

 

[Balance]

Ani Ibi:

Americans are providing the major population pressure in Australia?

No need for discourtesy.

that last bit was a joke.

population pressure? what ? “little america” means like america. let’s say antipodean america if you don’t l ike little america.

don’t let nitpickinly precise semantics get in the way of a good argumnet. define terms, certainly, but you need to read between the lines a little better, pick up on what people are saying rather than how they’re saying it. that’s more intelligent than trying to break it all down to details.

 

[vern_humphrey]

mjdonnelly:

Quickest way to break a nose is through the mouth.

Me granddad, Captain Jack Clooney, used to quote that fine old Irish proverb, "There’s many a man whose mouth has broken his nose."http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon10.gif

 

[Ani_Ibi]

Balance:

that last bit was a joke.

It was a discourteous joke.

Balance:

population pressure? what ? “little america” means like america. let’s say antipodean america if you don’t l ike little america.

What are the population pressures on Aus and NZ? Are those population pressures American? Are Americans falling over each other to settle there?

Balance:

don’t let nitpickinly precise semantics get in the way of a good argumnet.

An argument which you have not made. Making an unsupported accusation is not an argument.

Balance:

define terms, certainly, but you need to read between the lines a little better

Please refrain from making claims about what I need to do. I am the arbiter of what I need to do.

As for reading between the lines, the forum guidelines preclude mindreading.

I suggest that one necessary condition for understanding a claim is that that claim be clearly written in the first place. Your position has not been set out clearly. It has merely been stated and then restated in the absence of argumentation or authoritative support.

Balance:

pick up on what people are saying rather than how they’re saying it.

This is a strawman. I have been asking you to provide support for your accusations. You have consistently refused to do that. It has nothing to do with the style of what you are saying. It has to do with the substance of what you are saying.

Balance:

that’s more intelligent than trying to break it all down to details.

Please refrain from making personal remarks about the intelligence of my requests vis a vis your providing support for your accusations.

You have several times now refused to provide support for your accusations. Therefore you have conceded the point and there is no demonstrably rampant American imperialism.

The topic of the thread is in the Original Post. I suggest that you return to that topic, as per the Forum guidelines. If you wish to belabour the takeover of New Zealand by the US, then please find a news link to that effect and start another thread.