Turkey 'downs Russian warplane on Syria border' - BBC

[Path_Finder]

Turkey 'downs Russian warplane on Syria border’

The Turkish military has reportedly shot down a Russian military aircraft on the border with Syria.

Russia’s defence ministry said an Su-24 had crashed on Syrian territory after being hit by fire from the ground, and that its pilots had managed to eject.

But Turkish military officials said Turkish F-16s had shot down the plane after repeatedly warning its pilots they were violating Turkish airspace.

Video footage showed the plane crashing into mountains in Latakia province.

It is believed to have come down in a rebel-held area.

Russia launched an air campaign against opponents of Syrian President Bashar al-Assad’s government in late September.

Pilot 'captured’

The Russian defence ministry confirmed on Tuesday morning that a Russian Su-24 had “crashed on Syrian territory, having been hit from the ground” while it was flying at an altitude of 6,000m (19,685ft).

Read more at: bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-34907983

 

[pepipop]

Are Turkey pro-ISIS - or maybe they do not read the world news.

Seemingly, the jet was flying in Syrian airspace, however hypothetically even if it wasn’t - I’d assume the Turks knew that they weren’t the target, so are they pro-ISIS sympathisers and/or don’t care if ISIS is annihilated or not?

After a v. quick google search:

ibtimes.com/kurds-call-turkeys-president-isis-collaborator-islamic-state-turkeys-doorstep-foments-2022076
*
Kurds Call Turkey’s President ‘ISIS Collaborator’: Islamic State On Turkey’s Doorstep Foments Kurdish Tensions At Home

On Wednesday, Mafzan, along with hundreds of other activists and Kurdish civilians, returned to Suruc Square, holding a sign that read “The Turkish Government Is Pro-ISIS,” accusing Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan of turning a blind eye, and covertly encouraging ISIS attacks on Kurds.*

 

[pepipop]

uk.businessinsider.com/links-between-turkey-and-isis-are-now-undeniable-2015-7?r=US&IR=T

*A US-led raid on the compound housing the Islamic State’s “chief financial officer” produced evidence that Turkish officials directly dealt with ranking ISIS members, Martin Chulov of the Guardian reported recently.

The officer killed in the raid, Islamic State official Abu Sayyaf, was responsible for directing the terror army’s oil and gas operations in Syria. The Islamic State (aka ISIS, ISIL, or Daesh) earns up to $10 million a month selling oil on black markets.

Documents and flash drives seized during the Sayyaf raid reportedly revealed links “so clear” and “undeniable” between Turkey and ISIS “that they could end up having profound policy implications for the relationship between us and Ankara,” senior Western official familiar with the captured intelligence told the Guardian.

NATO member Turkey has long been accused by experts, Kurds, and even Joe Biden of enabling ISIS by turning a blind eye to the vast smuggling networks of weapons and fighters during the ongoing Syrian war.*

 

[ucfengr]

Are Turkey pro-ISIS - or maybe they do not read the world news.

Seemingly, the jet was flying in Syrian airspace, however hypothetically even if it wasn’t - I’d assume the Turks knew that they weren’t the target, so are they pro-ISIS sympathisers and/or don’t care if ISIS is annihilated or not?

After a v. quick google search:

ibtimes.com/kurds-call-turkeys-president-isis-collaborator-islamic-state-turkeys-doorstep-foments-2022076
*
Kurds Call Turkey’s President ‘ISIS Collaborator’: Islamic State On Turkey’s Doorstep Foments Kurdish Tensions At Home

On Wednesday, Mafzan, along with hundreds of other activists and Kurdish civilians, returned to Suruc Square, holding a sign that read “The Turkish Government Is Pro-ISIS,” accusing Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan of turning a blind eye, and covertly encouraging ISIS attacks on Kurds.*

Turkey and Russia have a long history of antagonism.

 

[pepipop]

Turkey and Russia have a long history of antagonism.

Nothing to do with anything - Paris was atrociously attacked, a week ago, and both France and Russia are bombing the perpetrators, who have also waged war on all Western countries.

Turkey must know they’e safe from ISIS and/or weren’t up to speed with what’s actually going on in the world - or maybe their oil supplies were going to be hit by the Russians.

 

[Brendan]

Nothing to do with anything - Paris was atrociously attacked, a week ago, and both France and Russia are bombing the perpetrators, who have also waged war on all Western countries.

Turkey must know they’e safe from ISIS and/or weren’t up to speed with what’s actually going on in the world - or maybe their oil supplies were going to be hit by the Russians.

Or, it could be that, as a general rule, NATO countries tend to highly object to Russian warplanes in their airspace.

One would say that the prevention of such incursions were the entire reason NATO was founded…

 

[pepipop]

Or, it could be that, as a general rule, NATO countries tend to highly object to Russian warplanes in their airspace.

One would say that the prevention of such incursions were the entire reason NATO was founded…

True…regarding NATO. It’ll be interesting to see if Turkey is still a member after this.

Or are NATO members on ISIS’s side too.

If it had been a French plane taken down, by Turkey, no doubt that would have been another matter, even though the French would have been flying to Syria for the exact same reason, as Russia is.

Also there is no evidence the jet was flying in Turkish airspace, the plane came down in Syria not Turkey.

 

[ucfengr]

True…regarding NATO. It’ll be interesting to see if Turkey is still a member after this.

Or are NATO members on ISIS’s side too.

If it had been a French plane taken down, by Turkey, no doubt that would have been another matter, even though the French would have been flying to Syria for the exact same reason, as Russia is.

Also there is no evidence the jet was flying in Turkish airspace, the plane came down in Syria not Turkey.

A lot of newer NATO countries only recently came out from under Russian domination. I suspect a few of them are going to be somewhat reticent to embrace Moscow, even though they are ostensibly fighting ISIS.

France hasn’t been invading their neighbors of late, so I doubt Turkey would have been as concerned about seeing a French aircraft overhead. Russian saber rattling around the world is making some people a bit edgy.

 

[Brendan]

True…regarding NATO. It’ll be interesting to see if Turkey is still a member after this.

Kicked out of NATO for doing what NATO was founded to do?

Or are NATO members on ISIS’s side too.

No, but neither are the Russians on NATO’s side

If it had been a French plane taken down, by Turkey, no doubt that would have been another matter, even though the French would have been flying to Syria for the exact same reason, as Russia is.

The French would have headed the warnings, or got Turkish permission to overfly their airspace first.

Also there is no evidence the jet was flying in Turkish airspace, the plane came down in Syria not Turkey.

It came down in a border town. It was shot down over Yayladağı

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yaylada%C4%9F%C4%B1

 

[pepipop]

A lot of newer NATO countries only recently came out from under Russian domination. I suspect a few of them are going to be somewhat reticent to embrace Moscow, even though they are ostensibly fighting ISIS.

France hasn’t been invading their neighbors of late, so I doubt Turkey would have been as concerned about seeing a French aircraft overhead. Russian saber rattling around the world is making some people a bit edgy.

This is nothing to do with NATO, nor is Russia fighting with NATO countries. The USA has already identified Turkey as ISIS supporters and backers. After this Turkey should be booted out of NATO, especially as they have been identified as supporting ISIS, nor become members of the EU.

uk.businessinsider.com/links-between-turkey-and-isis-are-now-undeniable-2015-7?r=US&IR=T

Senior Western official: Links between Turkey and ISIS are now ‘undeniable’

*“ISIS commanders told us to fear nothing at all because there was full cooperation with the Turks,” the fighter said. “ISIS saw the Turkish army as its ally especially when it came to attacking the Kurds in Syria.”

But as the alleged arrangements progressed, Turkey allowed the group to establish a major presence within the country — and created a huge problem for itself.

“The longer this has persisted, the more difficult it has become for the Turks to crack down [on ISIS] because there is the risk of a counter strike, of blowback,” Jonathan Schanzer, a former counterterrorism analyst for the US Treasury Department, explained to Business Insider in November.

“You have a lot of people now that are invested in the business of extremism in Turkey,” Schanzer added. “If you start to challenge that, it raises significant questions of whether” the militants, their benefactors, and other war profiteers would tolerate the crackdown."*

 

[pepipop]

Kicked out of NATO for doing what NATO was founded to do?

No, but neither are the Russians on NATO’s side

The French would have headed the warnings, or got Turkish permission to overfly their airspace first.

It came down in a border town. It was shot down over Yayladağı

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yaylada%C4%9F%C4%B1

This is a war on terrorism, it has nothing whatsoever to do with Russia fighting NATO. France and Russia are fighting ISIS.

Turkey supports ISIS, as identified by USA officials, months ago. Get Turkey out of ‘NATO’ - or what exactly does NATO stand for then. Is it not to protect its’ respective member countries from an international terrorist group - yet one of its’ members has been proven to support the same terrorist group.

Beggars belief.

 

[QuidVeritasEst]

Are Turkey pro-ISIS - or maybe they do not read the world news.

Seemingly, the jet was flying in Syrian airspace, however hypothetically even if it wasn’t - I’d assume the Turks knew that they weren’t the target, so are they pro-ISIS sympathisers and/or don’t care if ISIS is annihilated or not?

After a v. quick google search:

ibtimes.com/kurds-call-turkeys-president-isis-collaborator-islamic-state-turkeys-doorstep-foments-2022076
*
Kurds Call Turkey’s President ‘ISIS Collaborator’: Islamic State On Turkey’s Doorstep Foments Kurdish Tensions At Home

On Wednesday, Mafzan, along with hundreds of other activists and Kurdish civilians, returned to Suruc Square, holding a sign that read “The Turkish Government Is Pro-ISIS,” accusing Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan of turning a blind eye, and covertly encouraging ISIS attacks on Kurds.*

Turkey is a secular state,and one which ISIS, a group predominately Arabs, despise, due to the history of Turk vs Arab nationalism. It is utterly ridiculous to suggest Turkey have any interest in helping ISIS.

The ignorance on these forums is getting ridiculous now.

 

[Padres1969]

A lot of newer NATO countries only recently came out from under Russian domination. I suspect a few of them are going to be somewhat reticent to embrace Moscow, even though they are ostensibly fighting ISIS.

France hasn’t been invading their neighbors of late, so I doubt Turkey would have been as concerned about seeing a French aircraft overhead. Russian saber rattling around the world is making some people a bit edgy.

Exactly. Look at it this way, if a Russian Warplane armed and actively hunting targets was to suddenly fly over the coast of California we’d be scrambling jets and would also shoot it down if it refused to withdraw back to international airspace.

As for turkey supporting Daesh, they’ve been fighting them longer than most ignorant Americans have known Daesh existed. Please educate yourself.

 

[pepipop]

Turkey is a secular state,and one which ISIS, a group predominately Arabs, despise, due to the history of Turk vs Arab nationalism. It is utterly ridiculous to suggest Turkey have any interest in helping ISIS.

The ignorance on these forums is getting ridiculous now.

I didn’t write the reports nor declare their findings, in this instance a former counterterrorism analyst for the US Treasury Department did.

The kurds have also suggested the same on numerous occasions…

As, I don’t live there, I can only go by Western and other reports, from people who do reside there and/or have carried out investigations in the area, in this instance the USA.

So possibly the US reports are as ridiculous as you say.

ibtimes.co.in/turkey-buying-oil-isis-syrian-army-releases-photos-captured-tanker-656183

Third time lucky:

Senior Western official: Links between Turkey and ISIS are now 'undeniable’

*NATO member Turkey has long been accused by experts, Kurds, and even Joe Biden of enabling ISIS by turning a blind eye to the vast smuggling networks of weapons and fighters during the ongoing Syrian war.

“The longer this has persisted, the more difficult it has become for the Turks to crack down [on ISIS] because there is the risk of a counter strike, of blowback,” Jonathan Schanzer, a former counterterrorism analyst for the US Treasury Department, explained to Business Insider in November.*

uk.businessinsider.com/links-between-turkey-and-isis-are-now-undeniable-2015-7?r=US&IR=T

ft.com/cms/s/0/6c269c4e-5ace-11e4-b449 00144feab7de.html#axzz3sPvWuLiF

Isis sells smuggled oil to Turkey and Iraqi Kurds, says US Treasury

*The Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant, known as Isis, is earning as much as $1m a day through the sale of oil to some of its biggest enemies: middlemen from Turkey, Iraq’s Kurdish community and the regime of Bashar al-Assad, according to the US Treasury.
The remarks – made in a speech to the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace on Thursday by David Cohen, the undersecretary for terrorism and financial intelligence – are likely to raise eyebrows in a region where questions are already being asked over Ankara’s commitment to fighting Isis and Kurdish fighters are battling to avoid being over-run by the jihadis in the Syrian city of Kobani.
*

 

[Seamus_L]

This could well escalate things, but at this point, I think Russia now has justification to destroy any Turkish forces that may enter into Syria. Afterall, they have permission from the government to be there.

 

[pepipop]

Exactly. Look at it this way, if a Russian Warplane armed and actively hunting targets was to suddenly fly over the coast of California we’d be scrambling jets and would also shoot it down if it refused to withdraw back to international airspace.

As for turkey supporting Daesh, they’ve been fighting them longer than most ignorant Americans have known Daesh existed. Please educate yourself.

The USA reported it.

Also, Turkey ‘know’ why Russia is flying in that region, to fight ISIS not to hit Turkey.

Whether Russia flew their jet in Turkish airspace or not, is also up for question. The plane came down in Syria

 

[Path_Finder]

Turkey and Russia have a long history of antagonism.

A bunch of Turkmen fled from Syria, I guess Turkmen are kin to the Turks so in a sense, Turkey may have used this to protect them. Turkmen have been Rebels as well.

 

[oliver927]

According to this article, Russia was warned by Turkey about violating its airspace previous to this incident.

On Oct. 5, following two earlier Russian violations of Turkish airspace reported by Turkey, the NAC accused Russia of “irresponsible behavior,” and sternly warned Moscow it was courting “extreme danger” by sending its warplanes into the skies of an alliance member country.

 

[Path_Finder]

21 hours ago:

Turkey hardens Syrian tone, could intervene to protect Turkmen

Turkey could for the first time be engaged militarily in the Syrian war after Prime Minister Ahmet Davutoglu stated that Turkish forces are “instructed to retaliate to any development that would threaten Turkey’s border security.”

The statement was made following the airstrikes launched by Russian war planes near Turkey’s border during the weekend.

Sources close to the Prime Minister’s office said the matter will be taken to the U.N. Security Council.

Davutoglu claimed that the Russian airstrikes are targeting areas “where very clearly there is no element of DAESH [ISIL]****, where there is no terrorist element.” He added that “support from foreign fighters” followed after the bombings. The Prime Minister didn’t identify the foreign fighters but clarified that “every non-Syrian (fighter) inside Syria is a foreign fighter” irrespective of where they come from. “These foreign fighters aim at civilian people where the regime no longer has the power to resist,” he said.

me-confidential.com/11212-turkey-hardens-syrian-tone-could-intervene-to-protect-turkmen.html

Early reports so far but I’m hearing the Turkmen are who shot the pilots and the plane crashed where they are.

 

[pepipop]

According to this article, Russia was warned by Turkey about violating its airspace previous to this incident.

So.

Russia lost over 200 people being blown up by ISIS, a month ago, in a plane. France was hit by ISIS over a week ago - so Turkey KNOW why Russia are flying there - it’s to hit ISIS.

So either Turkey is not worried about ISIS; they couldn’t care less if ISIS is taken out or not - or they’re just plain nasty and vindictive for doing what they did. What was the problem, it’s not even been proven Russia was in their airspace as the plane came down in Syria.

It’s not as if Russia was there to hit Turkey, but was there to take out a ‘COMMON’ international enemy - or so Russia had thought.

IF Turkey have been allegedly spending money in getting rid of ISIS, and/or are worried they are so close to their country, they should be supporting ‘any’ other country that can reduce their military costs and also the threat of ISIS, on their doorstep.