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Vouthon
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I heard on the BBC that Turkish media is claiming that the Turkmen have both of the pilots alive and in their captivity. A lot of uncertainty here, only time will tell.
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pepipop
Guest
Not that I wish to look for it again, (and didn’t really view it) but I’m sure there’s a video of the pilots being shot in the air, whilst parachuting down, by the rebels. I read the comments to the video, rather than watch it.
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1crazybusydad
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Yes. That is the video I saw this morning, though I didn’t realize they were shooting at the pilots (sound off in the lobby…closed captioned). I did see that one of the commentators said that the way the pilots hit the ground, it appeared they were dead. I hope it isn’t so.
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pepipop
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But as the Russian air attacks against Turkmen positions show, Moscow is still intent on bolstering the Assad regime against some of its other opponents, whatever may be happening on the counter-IS front.
No proof.
No doubt, it was released by Turkey to hopefully use as ‘some’ damage limitation.
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7_Sorrows
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can they be trusted to be truthful?
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Vouthon
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pepipop
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OR another interesting theory.
*The post-Paris rapprochement between the West and Russia in Syria, the realignment of Western and Russian objectives of destroying ISIS over ousting Assad doesn’t suit Turkish interests.
Erdogan is trying hard to put Russia and Nato in a collision course by directly running to Nato after this incident instead of calling Russia first, whose plane was shot down and pilots killed.*
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pepipop
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Unfortunately, I believe it may be…it’s about 1/2 way down the page. zerohedge.com/news/2015-11-24/russian-pilots-executed-while-parachuting-turkish-media
Now, whether they actually hit the pilots, or not, is another matter. They’d be better off dead mind you.
God bless their relatives with all this social media footage, readily accessible.
zerohedge.com/news/2015-11-24/russian-pilots-executed-while-parachuting-turkish-media
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Vouthon
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Russia and Turkey both have shady inclinations where ISIS is concerned.
Russia is more interested in protecting a Syrian puppet regime that has abetted the Islamic State’s rise. It has consistently attacked the Free Syrian Army and other non-ISIS rebels. Only after the plane was downed did Putin seriously strike ISIS targets for the first time.
Turkey has only reluctantly participated in American-led airstrikes against ISIS, but has also continued to drop bombs on the Kurdish forces that have been the most effective fighters on the ground against ISIS.
So what do we make of this tangled web of intrigue? You decide.
I have no liking for the Turks or the Russians. It is a sparring match of egos between Erdogan and Putin.
BTW I’ve heard reports that the Russian airmen might both be dead. Crazy situation, so much uncertainty regarding these two men.
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pepipop
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I genuinely am a history moron, so have no clue what Turkey are doing.
Assad, has a majority support from his people and that is verified through numerous newspapers articles, on google and polls. I’ve also heard it from an Irish priest, on the radio. So the fact Russia is backing Assad, does not seem shady IMO.
The Irish priest, who had returned from Syria and was fund raising for Syrian orphans, when asked what the Syrians thought of Assad - a question the priest was not expecting - said everyone he met supported him, whether they be janitors/non-professionals or doctors / lawyers, i.e. from all walks of life. He said he himself was ‘surprised’ initially but he had found that Syrians accepted the ‘regime’ system as their norm - specifically mentioning Doctors/lawyers.
What Turkey did today was insane, aside from being unconscionable. There was no call for it, for a 10-15 secs violation of airspace, when Russia is fighting a war (that they too were involved in?).
All madness.
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Vouthon
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And it seems equally unconscionable that Russia would violate Turkish airspace despite receiving 10 warnings in the space of 5 minutes to desist, so as to strike at ethnic Turkish rebels fighting Assad’s forces over the border in Syria, in a region of that benighted country mere inches from a NATO ally where no ISIS targets are reputed to be active.I genuinely am a history moron, so have no clue what Turkey are doing.
Assad, has a majority support from his people and that is verified through numerous newspapers articles, on google and polls. I’ve also heard it from an Irish priest, on the radio. So the fact Russia is backing Assad, does not seem shady IMO.
The Irish priest, who had returned from Syria and was fund raising for Syrian orphans, when asked what the Syrians thought of Assad - a question the priest was not expecting - said everyone he met supported him, whether they be janitors/non-professionals or doctors / lawyers, i.e. from all walks of life. He said he himself was ‘surprised’ initially but he had found that Syrians accepted the ‘regime’ system as their norm - specifically mentioning Doctors/lawyers.
What Turkey did today was insane, aside from being unconscionable. There was no call for it, for a 10-15 secs violation of airspace, when Russia is fighting a war (that they too were involved in?).
All madness.
I cannot for the life of me understand the logic behind such perilous, high-stakes ‘risk-taking’ on NATO’s Syria-bordering southern flank.
Strange, when you think that Russia justified its invasion of Ukraine on the basis of protecting ethnic Russians. One rule for it and another for other powers?
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Glomung
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Whether you like it, or believe it or not, Turkey has been supporting ISIS with weapons, money, buying oil, medical treatment, and providing a safe haven. This has all been proven beyond any doubt. Try reading the news from some source other than MSNBC for a change and you may become more enlightened about the situation.
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Path_Finder
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Good points, we know Assad has lost over half his country, befriended Jihadis in the past and that the people do not support him, refugees named the regime as being the main cause of the Exodus from Syria.
adoptrevolution.org/en/survey-amongst-syrian-refugees-in-germany-backgrounds/
His human rights record is very clear.
Yes, it is proven that Russian strikes have been probably targetting other groups more than ISIS and it looks like some things the Russian mainline state-sponsored press says can’t be trusted at all.
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Path_Finder
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You make the claim. Okay.
The claim has been that Turkey had been supporting Al Nusra, that Turkey supports ISIS is more of the thing of Iranian/Russian propaganda.
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Path_Finder
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Assad regime accused of doing business with both Al Qaeda and ISIS over oil.
warincontext.org/2014/01/29/isis-selling-syrian-oil-to-assad-regime/
warincontext.org/2014/01/29/isis-selling-syrian-oil-to-assad-regime/
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pepipop
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It’s not comparable, 10 warnings in 15 seconds, that would be good going. Who says they were bombing ‘ethnic turks’, prove it - How do they or anyone else identify Turks, against the other rebels?
Some damage limitation, nothing more.
ASIDE from the fact Russia’s fighting an international enemy that Turkey are also allegedly ‘fighting’.
Well the Turks have been violating Greece’s airspace maybe they’ll not be as accommodating in future, to Turkish planes. twitter.com/damomac/status/669147074768838656
Only Russian/French planes have been given permission to fly over Syria - so maybe Assad will come to the same conclusion, re: airspace violation.
Russia never invaded Ukraine.
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marymary1975
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We don’t know where the plane was exactly. According to Turkey it was.on their airspace.And They said they warned Russia several times not to.fly on their airspace. Russia it is saying it was.on.Syrian.airspace but exactly as you say that there is no evidence that it was on Turkey what is the evidence that it was on Syrian airspace? Putin saying so? That is not evidence.True…regarding NATO. It’ll be interesting to see if Turkey is still a member after this.
Or are NATO members on ISIS’s side too.
If it had been a French plane taken down, by Turkey, no doubt that would have been another matter, even though the French would have been flying to Syria for the exact same reason, as Russia is.
Also there is no evidence the jet was flying in Turkish airspace, the plane came down in Syria not Turkey.
As.said before Russia and Turkey have a long history of problems and.it may be completely unrelated to ISIS
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Vouthon
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Nothing you have said provides any adequate explanation as to why Russia, which is supposed to have entered a temporary alliance of interest with NATO to confront ISIS after the downing of the plane and the Paris massacre, is flying sorties over NATO’s southern flank and infringing on a member state’s airspace to bomb a region where there are no known ISIL affiliates but which is known to be peopled by ethnic Turks.It’s not comparable, 10 warnings in 15 seconds, that would be good going. Who says they were bombing ‘ethnic turks’, prove it - How do they or anyone else identify Turks, against the other rebels?
Some damage limitation, nothing more.
ASIDE from the fact Russia’s fighting an international enemy that Turkey are also allegedly ‘fighting’.
Well the Turks have been violating Greece’s airspace maybe they’ll not be as accommodating in future, to Turkish planes. twitter.com/damomac/status/669147074768838656
Only Russian/French planes have been given permission to fly over Syria - so maybe Assad will come to the same conclusion, re: airspace violation.
Russia never invaded Ukraine.
This rash action is highly suspicious, apart from anything else, if Russia’s number one objective in the Syrian conflict is now to crush ISIS - which of course, it isn’t - just as Turkey’s overriding interest in the war isn’t either.
Russia seems to have made an ill-fated decision to put the national interest it has invested in the Assad regime over its promise to prioritise ISIS after the downing of the airliner, by bombing non-ISIL targets off NATO’s southern flank, rather focusing all of its energies on the fight against the Islamic State.
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Vouthon
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