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Path_Finder
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I wonder if there has been any evidence brought up yet, that Iraq agreed to ground air flights with Russia because of missiles flying over head in Iraqi air space? 
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pepipop
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It makes no sense otherwise. How would Iraq know what days to choose stop flights, if Russia hadn’t told them.I wonder if there has been any evidence brought up yet, that Iraq agreed to ground air flights with Russia because of missiles flying over head in Iraqi air space?
japantimes.co.jp/news/2015/11/23/world/russias-syria-bound-cruise-missile-flyovers-prompt-iraq-ground-northern-flights/#.Vlh2LHbhDIU
*Iraq’s civil aviation authority said in a statement the decision was made “to protect travelers and because of the crossing of cruise missiles and bombers in the northern part of Iraq launched from the Caspian Sea.”
Russia began launching cruise missiles from long-range bombers and from warships in the Caspian last month, passing over Iran and Iraq and covering a distance of some 1,500 km (900 miles) to reach their targets.
It was not immediately clear if Baghdad was expecting an increase in such activity this week. Iraq announced intelligence and security cooperation last month with Russia, Iran and Syria to counter the threat from Islamic State.*
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Path_Finder
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Path_Finder
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Why not underscore the other part?It makes no sense otherwise. How would Iraq know what days to choose stop flights, if Russia hadn’t told them.
japantimes.co.jp/news/2015/11/23/world/russias-syria-bound-cruise-missile-flyovers-prompt-iraq-ground-northern-flights/#.Vlh2LHbhDIU
*Iraq’s civil aviation authority said in a statement the decision was made “to protect travelers and because of the crossing of cruise missiles and bombers in the northern part of Iraq launched from the Caspian Sea.”
Russia began launching cruise missiles from long-range bombers and from warships in the Caspian last month, passing over Iran and Iraq and covering a distance of some 1,500 km (900 miles) to reach their targets.
**
It was not immediately clear if Baghdad was expecting an increase in such activity this week. ***Iraq announced intelligence and security cooperation last month with Russia, Iran and Syria to counter the threat from Islamic State.
"It was not immediately clear if Baghdad was expecting an increase in such activity this week."
Why would it make no sense? Russia doesn’t dictatee what Iraq does, Iraq may know when the missiles are flying overhead and have been notified by Russia and good. All the same, this doesn’t mean an agreement.
We are back to this not seeming to be a logical statement, as if Iraq needs to okay this.
#193:
Iraq does not have to agree with Russia to ground flights.
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Path_Finder
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In the end, it’s just a simple story, Iraq is grounding flights because of the danger of missiles, end of, stop. They perceive them as being a danger.
Cooperation may be with Russia and Iran but as if they have to have an agreement to ground planes, I find that explanation wanting.
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pepipop
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Where’s the proof and evidence of that?
christiantoday.com/article/syrian.christian.leader.tells.west.stop.arming.terror.groups.who.are.massacring.our.people/57747.htm
*Along with bishops of his church he recently had talks with President Assad of Syria. “President Assad urged us to do everything in our hands to prevent Christians from leaving Syria. ‘I know you are suffering,’ he said, ‘but please don’t leave this land, which has been your home for thousands of years, even before Islam came.’ He said that Christians will also be needed when the time comes to rebuild this devastated country.”
He said the majority of Syrian citizens support Assad’s government and have always supported it./U]
catholicworldreport.com/Item/3570/isis_assad_and_what_the_west_is_missing_about_syria.aspx
*Despite a stunning one-time-only admission by President Obama to a delegation of patriarchs in Washington last September—in which he reportedly said, “We know Assad has been protecting the Christians”—the bipartisan attitude towards the Syrian government has continued to hover between aloof and openly hostile.
The depiction of Assad by credible witnesses is quite different*. Speaking at a private meeting held at the Veritatis Splendor Diocesan Center in Bologna, Italy last October, Msgr. Giuseppe Nazzaro, former apostolic visitor to Aleppo and former Custodian of the Holy Land, had this to say:
[Assad] opened the country up to foreign trade, to tourism within the country and from abroad, to freedom of movement and of education for both men and women. Before the protests started, the number of women in the professional world had been constantly increasing, the university was open to all, and there was no discrimination on the basis of sex. The country was at peace, prosperity was on the rise, and human rights were respected. A common home and fatherland to many ethnicities and 23 different religious groups, Syria has always been a place where all were free to believe and live out their creed, all relationships were characterized by mutual respect.
Syrian Patriarch Ignace Joseph III Younan, in Rome for the recent synod on the family, told about the time the host of a French prime-time news program asked him about Syria’s “awful president,” saying, “He’s a monster. He’s killing innocent people, children and women.” To which Patriarch Younan replied with the story of a Capuchin priest from a Syrian town on the Euphrates River which is 98 percent Sunni Muslim.
The Capuchin told Younan that as the town was being attacked by anti-government rebels, he sheltered four Missionaries of Charity sisters and 12 elderly women in their care within his parish center. When the situation was no longer sustainable, the Capuchin said, the nuns called Damascus. “And Damascus sent military vehicles to evacuate [them] from the parish compound—there were the nuns, 12 elderly people, and [the Capuchin], and they took all to safety, in Damascus.”
“Now,” Patriarch Younan had said to the French news-show host, “you can judge for yourself if this person,** Assad, is a monster or not**.”*
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Path_Finder
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The Kurds, probably a favorite of most Americans over there, kicked out the Regime forces out of that part of Syria while at the same time, never unifying with the Terrorists such as Nusra or ISIS.
unitypublishing.com/godskingdom/GoodSamaritanSyria.htm
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pepipop
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Personally, I’ll take the “Catholic world report” and “Christian today” verified reports, over the US secular ones.
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Path_Finder
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pepipop
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Another US, non-MSM source with no verification by Christian leaders, Catholic and others, actually currently living in Syria - very convincing.
A Syrian opposition activist, who happens to be Christian but has left the region and is now ‘living’ in the USA.
What a great unbiased source to report on the issue.
Ahed al-Hendi, a Christian Syrian opposition activist who moved to the United States in 2007, objected to the notion that Assad has been good to religious minorities.
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Path_Finder
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Personally, I will remember that even the Nazis had Brown Priests!Personally, I’ll take the “Catholic world report” and “Christian today” verified reports, over the US secular ones.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Eschweiler Syria as well harbored a major Nazi war criminal in Brunner.
By the way, Unity Publishing is not a secular publication. Many of those quoted are from Syria or the Middle East as well.
Since it was pointed out that Christian Post, Catholic Herald or one of those publications printed that Assad was the biggest killer over there and one agrees with that analysis. I don’t see how that is a good thing in any way, to support the biggest killer by far.
What do they say about attacking the messenger not the message.
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DaveBj
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Jet engines can operate when the aircraft is on the ground and not moving at all. Otherwise, the pilots wouldn’t be able to start them up.I’ll take your word for it. I’m still curious, though, about how slow those engines are capable of flying without stalling or conking out.
I think even commercial passenger planes fly a lot faster than that.
Is it realistic to think a military jet would deliberately risk flying so slow that it’s engines might die?
Edit: Takeoff speed for a FENCER is in the vicinity of 280 kph / 175 mph, well below "1.5 miles in 17 seconds).
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Path_Finder
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The Russians have recognized the reality that Assad staying in power may not be feasible and the Russian Government itself hardly has a cheer leading section for Assad based on the narrative he protects Christians, they may say that sometimes, they also talk of transition as well.
This quotes the Syrian Human Rights Observatory in case anyone has to use excuses about it being from some source:
Hafez Assad was taken off of Syrian currency if that tells us anything and many experts would say Iran has been conducting the war in this quagmire in recent time.
This quotes the Syrian Human Rights Observatory in case anyone has to use excuses about it being from some source:
washingtonpost.com/world/islamic-state-has-killed-many-syrians-but-assads-forces-have-killed-even-more/2015/09/05/b8150d0c-4d85-11e5-80c2-106ea7fb80d4_story.html
Hafez Assad was taken off of Syrian currency if that tells us anything and many experts would say Iran has been conducting the war in this quagmire in recent time.
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pepipop
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Putin and Assad have said jointly, that Syria will have a democratic election, once they get rid of all the ‘ducks’.
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Path_Finder
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This response is editorialized, I don’t believe anywhere will one find the phrase “once they get rid of all the ducks” or even the equal of this, furthermore, I don’t know if Assad and Putin said this jointly about free elections. By the way, "get rid of all the ‘ducks’ can be interpreted once again showing a tacit approval of violence as even Putin spoke of “healthy” opposition.Putin and Assad have said jointly, that Syria will have a democratic election, once they get rid of all the ‘ducks’.
asianage.com/international/vladimir-putin-says-assad-agrees-early-parliamentary-polls-306
Therefore, based on this, I find the initial statement to be rated as False.
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pepipop
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Yes, Putin and Assad have been saying that all along. Assad said it even before Russia joined in, that he would hold democratic elections. HOW could anyone hold an election in Syria at the moment, it’s completely impossible.
The Ducks will include ISIS and other Islamic extremist offshoots that jump in and out of ISIS. They will not include the Syrian opposition or the FSA (but I don’t have a clue, as it’s so complicated - I don’t understand it).
Who actually are part of the FSA now though - are they all Syrian?
The main ducks would be ISIS and the ‘terrorists for hire’ that have joined the party, all to wreck Syria with little other motive in mind.
At least in NI, the ‘terrorists’ were either Irish or Northern Irish/British and the two sides could be identified in this way - Syria, IMO, is complete and utter bedlam.
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pepipop
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eng.syria.mil.ru/en/index/syria/news/more.htm?id=12066900@egNews
*The aircraft took off from the Hmeymim airbase at 9:42.
At 9:52, the Su-24M entered detection zone of the Turkish Air Force radar means and was under their coverage in the course of 34 minutes.
After 20 minutes passed since the crew had entered its area of responsibility, the Command centre of the Hmeymim airbase ordered it to eliminate militants in the area.
The crews bombed two assigned targets and turned to the left to make another approach for destruction of two remaining targets.
As it was carrying out an airstrike at the target located 5.5 km to the south of the Turkish border, at 10:24 the crew led by Lieutenant Colonel Peshkov O.A. launched bombs at the target and was then downed by an “air-to-air” missile from an F-16 fighter of the Turkish Air Force, which had performed take-off from the Diyarbakir airfield of the 8th airbase located in the territory Turkey.
During the analysis of video air situation display provided by the Command Centre of the Syrian Air Force and Air Defence, an aerial target was spotted, moving from Turkey in the direction of the state border at the speed of 810 kmph and with the heading of 190 degrees.
After the Turkish fighter approached the Su-24M at a range equal to the range of a missile launch (equal to 5-7 km, which proves that the F-16 was in the Syrian air space), it quickly maneuvered to the right, lowered, and disappeared from the display of the air situation display.
According to the objective monitoring data received from the air defence means, while the Russian bomber did not cross the Turkish border.*
*The aircraft took off from the Hmeymim airbase at 9:42.
At 9:52, the Su-24M entered detection zone of the Turkish Air Force radar means and was under their coverage in the course of 34 minutes.
After 20 minutes passed since the crew had entered its area of responsibility, the Command centre of the Hmeymim airbase ordered it to eliminate militants in the area.
The crews bombed two assigned targets and turned to the left to make another approach for destruction of two remaining targets.
As it was carrying out an airstrike at the target located 5.5 km to the south of the Turkish border, at 10:24 the crew led by Lieutenant Colonel Peshkov O.A. launched bombs at the target and was then downed by an “air-to-air” missile from an F-16 fighter of the Turkish Air Force, which had performed take-off from the Diyarbakir airfield of the 8th airbase located in the territory Turkey.
During the analysis of video air situation display provided by the Command Centre of the Syrian Air Force and Air Defence, an aerial target was spotted, moving from Turkey in the direction of the state border at the speed of 810 kmph and with the heading of 190 degrees.
After the Turkish fighter approached the Su-24M at a range equal to the range of a missile launch (equal to 5-7 km, which proves that the F-16 was in the Syrian air space), it quickly maneuvered to the right, lowered, and disappeared from the display of the air situation display.
According to the objective monitoring data received from the air defence means, while the Russian bomber did not cross the Turkish border.*
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pepipop
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I’m afraid this is all double Dutch to me…does it mean FSA are fighting each other? 
This must be the most bizarre ‘civil’ war, in the history of mankind (it most likely isn’t - as I’m not a history buff - but it seems like it to me)!
now.mmedia.me/lb/en/NewsReports/566293-fsa-group-battles-nusra-amid-russia-strikes
*FSA group battles Nusra amid Russia strikes
An insurgent commander fighting against Jaysh al-Thuwar claims that Russia is conducting raids in support of the FSA coalition.*
*BEIRUT – A Free Syrian Army group affiliated with the Kurdish Peoples’ Protection Units (YPG) has reportedly engaged in fierce fighting with the Al-Nusra Front and allied factions north of Aleppo amid Russian airstrikes in the area.
On Thursday evening, the FSA-linked rebel coalition Jaysh al-Thuwar accused Nusra and the Marea operations room—a collection of other mostly FSA-affiliated factions—of attacking it outside two villages west of Aazaz.
“Jaysh al-Thuwar’s forces responded to the centers of those aggressions. The attack shows that there are factions that claim to be revolutionary but in truth serve the enemies of the Syrian revolution,” the group said in a fiery statement.
On Friday morning, the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights reported that fighting was still raging between the Jaysh al-Thuwar coalition on one side and Nusra and a collection of rebel brigades on the other around the villages of Al-Malikiya and Mathanat al-Faisal.*
This must be the most bizarre ‘civil’ war, in the history of mankind (it most likely isn’t - as I’m not a history buff - but it seems like it to me)!
now.mmedia.me/lb/en/NewsReports/566293-fsa-group-battles-nusra-amid-russia-strikes
*FSA group battles Nusra amid Russia strikes
An insurgent commander fighting against Jaysh al-Thuwar claims that Russia is conducting raids in support of the FSA coalition.*
*BEIRUT – A Free Syrian Army group affiliated with the Kurdish Peoples’ Protection Units (YPG) has reportedly engaged in fierce fighting with the Al-Nusra Front and allied factions north of Aleppo amid Russian airstrikes in the area.
On Thursday evening, the FSA-linked rebel coalition Jaysh al-Thuwar accused Nusra and the Marea operations room—a collection of other mostly FSA-affiliated factions—of attacking it outside two villages west of Aazaz.
“Jaysh al-Thuwar’s forces responded to the centers of those aggressions. The attack shows that there are factions that claim to be revolutionary but in truth serve the enemies of the Syrian revolution,” the group said in a fiery statement.
On Friday morning, the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights reported that fighting was still raging between the Jaysh al-Thuwar coalition on one side and Nusra and a collection of rebel brigades on the other around the villages of Al-Malikiya and Mathanat al-Faisal.*
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Abba
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Right after ‘Washington’ stated it is behind Turkey with the attack of the two Russian jet fighters - NATO echoed the same.
Chomsky: NATO is a U.S.-run intervention force
rt.com/shows/sophieco/202967-cold-nuclear-war-nato/
I like the way Putin points out the commerce blackmail that has been going on by Washington with European countries (e.g. France ) and the fines (billions) for ridiculous things to get back for not voting or speaking as preferred by ‘Washington.’
Chomsky: NATO is a U.S.-run intervention force
rt.com/shows/sophieco/202967-cold-nuclear-war-nato/
I like the way Putin points out the commerce blackmail that has been going on by Washington with European countries (e.g. France ) and the fines (billions) for ridiculous things to get back for not voting or speaking as preferred by ‘Washington.’
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