Turned away from confession

[Casilda]

To the OP, I hope this makes you feel better, at least there is a priest there hearing some confessions. I’ve been to parishes where one never showed up, they simply told all the folks in line that Father was detained. I agree, that half an hour to three quarters of an hour on Sat and/or a random day of the week is in no way sufficient for confessions. Especially for parishes of 1800-6000 families. It’s one reason of many a friend gave for leaving the faith. The church is imploding and no one really wants to admit it.

I don’t blame your young priest. He was there, he tried. Lord, have mercy, St. Jean Marie Baptiste Vianney pray for us!

 

[po18guy]

When did “confession-on-demand” become Archdiocesan policy? Did anyone bother to ask the Priest what his schedule was after mass - like eating, a meeting, a scheduled counseling session, parish council, etc.

“Honestly”, when our needs are not met does not mean that we should solicit prayer for someone else.

 

[ineeda]

This thread makes me realize how Important it is to pray for vocations to the priesthood.

So true! I am in awe of all that priests do, and I just can’t imagine how they do it! I really miss our old pastor, as he had confessions available every morning, weekly during holy hour, and for one hour on Saturdays. With that being said, our new priest(shared from another parish) has equivalence of four parishes… I don’t know how he remembers where he is supposed to be on a certain day. God bless our priests!!

 

[Don_Ruggero]

Though this priest may very well be a parochial vicar, he may not be, and in any case, deserves the respect of having this issue brought to his attention first. The priest can then address this situation with is superiors to see what changes can be made at his church.

The original poster clearly states in the first paragraph:
I need some advice on how to handle this issue gracefully as we have a newly ordained priest in our parish
And clearly states in the penultimate paragraph
Obviously, the problem really lies with the very limited time for confession in our parish, which I intend to bring up with the pastor
Whether the newly ordained priest is the parochial vicar or was simply visiting the parish, the priest with the* cura animarum* and with governance to decide the schedule for his parish is the parish priest.

Anyone who wants to address such a matter should address it to the priest who has governance.

I would never have accepted someone presenting such a request as you propose through either my parochial vicar or a visiting priest – and framing it the way you have done – is simply not correct.

 

[friardchips]

When did “confession-on-demand” become Archdiocesan policy? Did anyone bother to ask the Priest what his schedule was after mass - like eating, a meeting, a scheduled counseling session, parish council, etc.

“Honestly”, when our needs are not met does not mean that we should solicit prayer for someone else.

With all due respect, this reminds me of the Good Samaritan, reminding us that the Samaritan might have had other things to do, but stopped on the way to help a beaten man on the roadside, anyway, despite (possibly) being late.

Do not underestimate the need and power of the Sacrament of Reconciliation.

 

[DebChris]

It is good that so many people want to get to confession. When you talk to the parish priest, begin your conversation like that, not with accusation.
Do keep in mind that priests are busy, especially in American parishes where there may only be one priest for a large parish. I currently go to a small mission parish attached to a larger parish. There are 2 priests, plus one who is retired (emeritus). Before going overseas, the small downtown chapel had daily noon Mass except Wednesday which is reserved for confessions. It now only has daily Mass on Friday. Confession is still reserved for Wednesdays. There is a single Sunday Mass. On major feast days, like Easter and Christmas there is no Mass (nor is there bus transportation) which means trying to find a way to the main parish.
The main parish has Saturday evening confession, as well as the communal penance services during Advent and Lent which I like.
I have only once had to go to confession after Mass (at a different parish) because of the length of the line. Interesting that the gospel and homily meant a better confession on my part. For those that are asked to wait, don’t begrudge what can be a blessing.

Every parish has different confessional schedules. As a person who has traveled, I have seen what these possibilities can mean. In a nearby town, the mother church offers daily confession before daily Mass. There are still lines on Saturday. In WI, I would travel 20 miles to the cathedral, where confession was heard before every Mass, and I was unknown. Not that it matters since I prefer face to face confession.
Overseas, one priest continued to hear confessions before Mass and continued even as the Mass began.
I have never been overly concerned about First Saturday Devotionals. I do like what one priest did say on retreat. If you are using the Confessional for devotional purposes, it is unlikely that you have gravely sinned. Be considerate of those in line behind you. Focus on a single area of sin with which you are struggling. This is one way to keep the line moving, especially when as there was at that retreat one priest hearing confessions.

Whenever I think my confessional time will be long, it seem short (in and out). It’s the time that I thought it would be shortest (there was nobody else in line) that it was longest.

 

[Don_Ruggero]

When did “confession-on-demand” become Archdiocesan policy? Did anyone bother to ask the Priest what his schedule was after mass - like eating, a meeting, a scheduled counseling session, parish council, etc.

Indeed. And this is true for all the sacraments…not just confession. The request must be commensurate with reason.

I could not count the number of times I have given the sacraments in the middle of the night, when a person was seriously ill to say nothing of those not expected to live until morning.

On the other hand I could not count the number of times I have had to say to people not in extraordinary circumstance, “I am sorry but that request cannot be accommodated according to an individual’s personal preference.”

 

[DebChris]

Indeed. And this is true for all the sacraments…not just confession. The request must be commensurate with reason.

I could not count the number of times I have given the sacraments in the middle of the night, when a person was seriously ill to say nothing of those not expected to live until morning.

On the other hand I could not count the number of times I have had to say to people not in extraordinary circumstance, “I am sorry but that request cannot be accommodated according to an individual’s personal preference.”

I’ve mentioned a few times the small parish to which I belonged before going overseas to teach. The parish priest was from Vietnam, and often his homilies would include stories of the difficulties he had leaving that country. One man would even drive 50 miles every Sunday to that small parish for Mass. This story is about a different Sacrament.
During Mass, one of the parishioners became ill, as noted by the woman sitting by him, a nurse. The ushers called the paramedics.
The man received Holy Communion during the normal time. One of the reasons I like the priest facing the congregation is that it gives him full control of what is happening. Father can move the EMCH’s as needed, etc. Everybody was able to receive the Eucharist. As the paramedics rolled the sick man down the center aisle, Father was able to anoint him, all within the rubrics of the Mass.
The After Communion song was “Whatever You do to the Least of My Brothers.”
All was done in order without disruption.

My current parish bulletin contains the announcement, for those wanted home visitation, that it must be requested. The same is true about hospital visitation. HIPPA laws no longer make visitations automatic. I was surprised the last time I was in the emergency room that I actually asked my religious affiliation. It was the first time, and I don’t know if it was because I was there on a Sunday.

 

[Don_Ruggero]

I need some advice on how to handle this issue gracefully as we have a newly ordained priest in our parish and I don’t want to appear to be “tattling” on him [1]. Yesterday was the 1st Saturday of August. There are many of us in my parish observing the 1st Saturday devotion to the Blessed Mother, in honor of the 100th anniversary of the apparitions at Fatima. There has always been very limited time in our parish for confessions. It has always been just once a week for 1/2 hr before the Saturday vigil mass. There is also no Saturday morning mass, so the vigil mass is the only way to observe the 1st Saturday devotion. That is concerning in itself, since the priests speak about the importance of confession all the time. The talk the talk, but don’t walk the walk. It also bothers me that almost no one speaks of the 1st Saturday or 1st Friday devotions much, at least in this parish, [2] which I just joined a couple of years ago due to moving here.

Yesterday, at the beginning of the scheduled confession time, there was already a very long line waiting when I arrived. I waited for over a half hour, as did several others, but many of us did not get to confess when the priest stopped confessions to get ready for mass. The other priest always stops exactly at 4:00 om on the dot, no matter how many are waiting. The young priest yesterday told one of the people coming out of confession to tell those waiting in line that we could either make an appointment or come back next week. We were shocked that he didn’t offer to hear confessions after mass [3] because many of those still waiting were observing the 1st Saturday devotion. Others were elderly, in assisted living facilities, and only get to mass once a week as they have no other transportation

Obviously, those of us observing the 1st Saturday devotion did our best to get to confession yesterday, but we can get to confession later this week at another church, but I felt horrible for those that cannot. Our Lady will understand and accept their attempt to fulfill the confession requirement and count it. But I was shocked that any priest would not make accommodation for any person trying to confess. [4] What would happen if that person with a mortal sin on their soul suddenly died before the next confession opportunity? Wouldn’t it be on that priest who refused confession because it wasn’t “convenient”?

Obviously, the problem really lies with the very limited time for confession in our parish, which I intend to bring up with the pastor. But the refusal of confession issue really bothers me /…/

My thought at this time is to pray for the young priest for wisdom and for God to make him re-think turning people thirsting for forgiveness away from a sacrament, and to bring up the very limited confession times to the pastor again. [1] The issue has been raised several times now without much response on his part, but maybe the squeaky wheel really does get the grease! [5]

The other two priests on this thread have answered you very well

Given the tone of what you wrote and given these confreres are ordained fewer years than I, I wish to give my own answer

1. You demonstrate through the two comments I have labeled [1] an adversarial relationship with the priests of your parish. This is singularly unhelpful. It’s one thing to make known one’s thoughts on pastoral needs. It’s quite another to do so in the tone here

Using expressions such as “turned away from confession” rather than a more neutral expression, such as the simple fact that there were more penitents than could be accommodated, is also pejorative

1. In the parishes where I had governance, I made provision for this private devotion that results from a private revelation. Information was provided about the apparitions of Fatima just as information was provided about the apparitions to Saint Margaret Mary Alacoque or, in latter years, Saint Faustina – always placing them in a proper theological context that these are private revelations while the focus of parish life and pastoral practices were properly oriented where they belonged: public revelation and magisterial teaching. This in order to avoid disequilibrium or imbalance

Other priests had different ideas regarding the proper place for such private devotions relative to their parish’s pastoral life. Some emphasised them more…others much much less

Having said that, it was rare to have a dedicated Mass on the First Saturdays of the month. The devotion was observed in connection with the Saturday evening anticipated Mass. Why? Because on the weekend, I had allocation for five Masses, per the norms of Canon Law…I could binate on Saturday and trinate on Sunday. As I had three Masses to accommodate on Sunday, the Saturday evening Mass counted towards bination for that day. Saturday is a day most popular for weddings and that had to be taken into account; funeral Masses also came up often. Moreover, there were often diocesan Masses on Saturday morning needing accommodation

In short, there are many factors that go into the schedule the priest makes…often involving matters of which parishioners are ignorant

1. It is not infrequent that I accommodate an impromptu request…Father could you hear a quick confession before Mass? After Mass? Father, I know you are lining up for the procession but could you bless these religious articles?

It’s entirely different when one is talking of returning to the confessional for another session of hearing confessions in a parish where the pastor has jurisdiction and governance. It was not the place of the newly ordained priest to even propose that

1. The priest did make an accommodation…he explained the possibilities available to penitents unable to confess
2. Such an attitude of hostility may cause the conversation to end…with no prospect of re-visiting the subject

 

[Don_Ruggero]

I agree with everything you said here for everybody who is able-bodied. Whether it’s arriving earlier, confessing within 8 days before or 8 days after, or going to a different church for confession, those of us who can get around can handle this minor inconvenience and even offer it up as more reparation to Our Lady.

My one concern is that if a lot of these people are elderly/ infirm then they may have a greater need to take care of their confession needs and the Mass in one trip. So maybe some special accommodation can be made for them, not out of superstition but simply in recognition of their difficulty in moving around and making the alternative arrangements that the younger/ able-bodied can do.

You are correct about the fact that one must not fixate on matters without taking account of the latitude that actually exists regarding this practice.

As Sister Lucia herself related:
*"A little over two months later the Child Jesus appeared to Lucia to encourage spread of the devotion, assuring her that His grace could overcome all obstacles. During this apparition Lucia expressed concern about the difficulty some might have confessing on Saturday and asked if this requirement might be fulfilled within eight days. ‘Yes,’ Jesus said, 'and it could be longer still, provided that when they receive Me, they are in the state of grace and have the intention of making reparation to the Immaculate Heart of Mary.’

When she asked about those who might forget to make the intention He said ‘They can do so at their next Confession, taking advantage of the first opportunity to go to Confession.’

This exchange provides an important insight into Heaven’s disposition toward human limitations and weakness and the ever-changing circumstances of everyday life on earth. We must be careful to avoid scrupulosity with regard to minor details of the devotion’s requirements and not demand more of ourselves and others than Heaven demands."*
Taken from The World Apostolate of Fatima, which has approbation of the Holy See and is an apostolate in absolute submission and fidelity to ecclesiastical authority.

wafusa.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/1st-Sat-CoR-12pg-Booklet-Color-21415-Item-26737.pdf

 

[friardchips]

I need some advice on how to handle this issue gracefully as we have a newly ordained priest in our parish and I don’t want to appear to be “tattling” on him. Yesterday was the
1st Saturday of August. There are many of us in my parish observing the 1st Saturday devotion to the Blessed Mother, in honor of the 100th anniversary of the apparitions at Fatima. There has always been very limited time in our parish for confessions. It has always been just once a week for 1/2 hr before the Saturday vigil mass. There is also no Saturday morning mass, so the vigil mass is the only way to observe the 1st Saturday devotion. That is concerning in itself, since the priests speak about the importance of confession all the time. The talk the talk, but don’t walk the walk. It also bothers me that almost no one speaks of the 1st Saturday or 1st Friday devotions much, at least in this parish, which I just joined a couple of years ago due to moving here.

Yesterday, at the beginning of the scheduled confession time, there was already a very long line waiting when I arrived. I waited for over a half hour, as did several others, but many of us did not get to confess when the priest stopped confessions to get ready for mass. The other priest always stops exactly at 4:00 om on the dot, no matter how many are waiting. The young priest yesterday told one of the people coming out of confession to tell those waiting in line that we could either make an appointment or come back next week. We were shocked that he didn’t offer to hear confessions after mass because many of those still waiting were observing the 1st Saturday devotion. Others were elderly, in assisted living facilities, and only get to mass once a week as they have no other transportation.

Obviously, those of us observing the 1st Saturday devotion did our best to get to confession yesterday, but we can get to confession later this week at another church, but I felt horrible for those that cannot. Our Lady will understand and accept their attempt to fulfill the confession requirement and count it. But I was shocked that any priest would not make accommodation for any person trying to confess. What would happen if that person with a mortal sin on their soul suddenly died before the next confession opportunity? Wouldn’t it be on that priest who refused confession because it wasn’t “convenient”?

Obviously, the problem really lies with the very limited time for confession in our parish, which I intend to bring up with the pastor. But the refusal of confession issue really bothers me. I have already offered to transport any of the others who want to make appointments during the week, or find another parish with more confession time, but many of them are in wheelchairs and need lift-equipped vans. I also work from 7:30 am to 4 pm, so that also makes finding other confession times at other parishes a bit tricky.

My thought at this time is to pray for the young priest for wisdom and for God to make him re-think turning people thirsting for forgiveness away from a sacrament, and to bring up the very limited confession times to the pastor again. The issue has been raised several times now without much response on his part, but maybe the squeaky wheel really does get the grease!

To the OP: I just wish to add, that the Catechism states this:

vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p2s2c2a4.htm

‘1464 Priests must encourage the faithful to come to the sacrament of Penance and must make themselves available to celebrate this sacrament each time Christians reasonably ask for it.70’

I didn’t find a problem with your post - unless you ask then you don’t know - and I think you can respectfully put in a request for longer confession times whilst doing some of the other things mentioned in this thread in the meantime.

There are many saints (one mentioned on this thread), who spent a great many hours hearing confessions. Tirelessly. Unless you ask, you won’t get. And you never know, other people might already have asked, and so the request would add to the others possibly making for a greater sense of urgency.

 

[DebChris]

You are correct about the fact that one must not fixate on matters without taking account of the latitude that actually exists regarding this practice.

As Sister Lucia herself related:
"A little over two months later the Child Jesus appeared to Lucia to encourage spread of the devotion, assuring her that His grace could overcome all obstacles. During this apparition Lucia expressed concern about the difficulty some might have confessing on Saturday and asked if this requirement might be fulfilled within eight days. ‘Yes,’ Jesus said, 'and it could be longer still, provided that when they receive Me, they are in the state of grace and have the intention of making reparation to the Immaculate Heart of Mary.’

When she asked about those who might forget to make the intention He said ‘They can do so at their next Confession, taking advantage of the first opportunity to go to Confession.’

This exchange provides an important insight into Heaven’s disposition toward human limitations and weakness and the ever-changing circumstances of everyday life on earth. We must be careful to avoid scrupulosity with regard to minor details of the devotion’s requirements and not demand more of ourselves and others than Heaven demands."
Taken from The World Apostolate of Fatima, which has approbation of the Holy See and is an apostolate in absolute submission and fidelity to ecclesiastical authority.

wafusa.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/1st-Sat-CoR-12pg-Booklet-Color-21415-Item-26737.pdf

To the OP: I just wish to add, that the Catechism states this:

vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p2s2c2a4.htm

‘1464 Priests must encourage the faithful to come to the sacrament of Penance and must make themselves available to celebrate this sacrament each time Christians reasonably ask for it.70’

I didn’t find a problem with your post - unless you ask then you don’t know - and I think you can respectfully put in a request for longer confession times whilst doing some of the other things mentioned in this thread in the meantime.

There are many saints (one mentioned on this thread), who spent a great many hours hearing confessions. Tirelessly. Unless you ask, you won’t get. And you never know, other people might already have asked, and so the request would add to the others possibly making for a greater sense of urgency.

The key is “reasonable request.” I lived in a small town in WI. The parish had 1000 families and one priest. Later he had a deacon. That parish had an elementary school with tuition low enough so that most parishioners could afford to send their children there.
It was a rural setting with the next church 15 miles away.
The pastor did have to set limits on his time, like no phone calls at 5:30pm since that was his supper time.
The church was situated right next to the hospital. Very small town. The school barely met the state law regarding how many feet it had to be from the local jail. This was the county seat.

Imagine on the other hand, a situation where every priest is multilingual in order to meet parish needs. There is only one Catholic Church in the entire country, although a new cathedral is now being built (with a seminary for the entire Gulf region).

While we ask the priests to be available to minister the Sacraments, that only they can administer. As Scripture says, when the question came up that recognized the need for deacons, the Apostles were needed to preach the Gospel. What as a layperson are you able and willing to contribute to the Church, in terms of time and talent?

 

[friardchips]

The key is “reasonable request.” I lived in a small town in WI. The parish had 1000 families and one priest. Later he had a deacon. That parish had an elementary school with tuition low enough so that most parishioners could afford to send their children there.
It was a rural setting with the next church 15 miles away.
The pastor did have to set limits on his time, like no phone calls at 5:30pm since that was his supper time.
The church was situated right next to the hospital. Very small town. The school barely met the state law regarding how many feet it had to be from the local jail. This was the county seat.

Imagine on the other hand, a situation where every priest is multilingual in order to meet parish needs. There is only one Catholic Church in the entire country, although a new cathedral is now being built (with a seminary for the entire Gulf region).

While we ask the priests to be available to minister the Sacraments, that only they can administer. As Scripture says, when the question came up that recognized the need for deacons, the Apostles were needed to preach the Gospel. What as a layperson are you able and willing to contribute to the Church, in terms of time and talent?

The laity can start by attending the Sacraments. The rest is up to God.

 

[johnnyc176]

In the last couple of months I have come across two parishes that had no set confession times. All confessions done by appt. with a note…

Normally, during the seasons of Advent (before Christmas) and Lent (before Easter), an evening is set aside for the communal preparation and celebration of this Sacrament

Is that the one where everybody gets absolved at once?

 

[Don_Ruggero]

Is that the one where everybody gets absolved at once?

No.

The communal penance service – which is Form II – concludes with the penitents going to confession individually, choosing to whom they will confess from among multiple confessors, and being absolved individually.

 

[Don_Ruggero]

The key is “reasonable request.” I lived in a small town in WI. The parish had 1000 families and one priest. Later he had a deacon. That parish had an elementary school with tuition low enough so that most parishioners could afford to send their children there.
It was a rural setting with the next church 15 miles away.
The pastor did have to set limits on his time, like no phone calls at 5:30pm since that was his supper time.
The church was situated right next to the hospital. Very small town. The school barely met the state law regarding how many feet it had to be from the local jail. This was the county seat.

Imagine on the other hand, a situation where every priest is multilingual in order to meet parish needs. There is only one Catholic Church in the entire country, although a new cathedral is now being built (with a seminary for the entire Gulf region).

While we ask the priests to be available to minister the Sacraments, that only they can administer. As Scripture says, when the question came up that recognized the need for deacons, the Apostles were needed to preach the Gospel. What as a layperson are you able and willing to contribute to the Church, in terms of time and talent?

It is a very good question – and one that I always welcomed. Properly, it has to be collaborative and in a way that is not disruptive to the policies established by the parish priest with cura animarum.

I spoke earlier of First Saturday devotions before the anticipated Mass. In my parishes, those devotions were consciously crafted to be animated by lay people, whether it was before the Mass or after the Mass. It was they who led the Rosary and other prayers, for example, while I was hearing confessions.

On the other hand, there were parishes around me that had other pastoral priorities with their own activities. Every parish does not need to be offering all the same options when it comes to the devotional life, beyond the provision of the sacraments.

 

[thequeen]

It is a very good question – and one that I always welcomed. Properly, it has to be collaborative and in a way that is not disruptive to the policies established by the parish priest with cura animarum.

I spoke earlier of First Saturday devotions before the anticipated Mass. In my parishes, those devotions were consciously crafted to be animated by lay people, whether it was before the Mass or after the Mass. It was they who led the Rosary and other prayers, for example, while I was hearing confessions.

On the other hand, there were parishes around me that had other pastoral priorities with their own activities. Every parish does not need to be offering all the same options when it comes to the devotional life, beyond the provision of the sacraments.

Thank you Father for this reply. It summed things up very well.

 

[friardchips]

Tend to feel that this thread is moving away from the original question in relation to the OP’s query. However, I do think that it is important for the OP to know this, firmly in line with the thread-topic:

*'http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/_P58.HTM

Popular piety

1674 Besides sacramental liturgy and sacramentals, catechesis must take into account the forms of piety and popular devotions among the faithful. the religious sense of the Christian people has always found expression in various forms of piety surrounding the Church’s sacramental life, such as the veneration of relics, visits to sanctuaries, pilgrimages, processions, the stations of the cross, religious dances, the rosary, medals,178 etc.

1675 These expressions of piety extend the liturgical life of the Church, but do not replace it. They "should be so drawn up that they harmonize with the liturgical seasons, accord with the sacred liturgy, are in some way derived from it and lead the people to it, since in fact the liturgy by its very nature is far superior to any of them."179

1676 Pastoral discernment is needed to sustain and support popular piety and, if necessary, to purify and correct the religious sense which underlies these devotions so that the faithful may advance in knowledge of the mystery of Christ.180 Their exercise is subject to the care and judgment of the bishops and to the general norms of the Church.

At its core the piety of the people is a storehouse of values that offers answers of Christian wisdom to the great questions of life. the Catholic wisdom of the people is capable of fashioning a vital synthesis… It creatively combines the divine and the human, Christ and Mary, spirit and body, communion and institution, person and community, faith and homeland, intelligence and emotion. This wisdom is a Christian humanism that radically affirms the dignity of every person as a child of God, establishes a basic fraternity, teaches people to encounter nature and understand work, provides reasons for joy and humor even in the midst of a very hard life. For the people this wisdom is also a principle of discernment and an evangelical instinct through which they spontaneously sense when the Gospel is served in the Church and when it is emptied of its content and stifled by other interests.181’*

 

[johnnyc176]

Good article published today that is pertinent to the topic…

wdtprs.com/blog/2017/08/urgent-for-priests/

He posts something from an article by Fr. George Rutler about confession…

The parish priest should not let a day pass without some time in the confessional, and if no one shows up, that time can be one of prayer, and eventually the people will come. Weekly confession should be the goal for the priest himself. Often the Anti-Christ will tempt the priest to absent the confessional for one reason or another just before a seriously burdened penitent is about to ask to be heard. Humble confessions heard in the sacred tribunal often inspire the priest beyond anything the penitent could understand. Humility is never discouraged by a good examination of conscience, for the Good Physician always has a cure for sickness of soul, be it a defect of the intellect or a weakness of will.

 

[Oneofthewomen]

While this is a wonderful “ideal”, I do not know of any Pastor who can block out an hour every day to hear confessions without letting something else fall to the wayside.

That said, every Pastor I know will make an appointment for someone outside of regularly scheduled confession times.

We need to remember that our priests are spread thin, have lots of obligations and are not just “sacramental machines”.

Want more confessions times, pray for more priests and encourage your sons, nephews and all the young men you know to at least consider a vocation to the priesthood.