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DustinsDad
Guest
Bingo!
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BibleSteve
Guest
No, the author spends 13 pages talking about Greek Translation, analyzing how 9 different translations all add words… the conclusion is not based on any theological presupposition.
But, you wouldn’t know that because your making your own presumptions without reading the book.
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BibleSteve
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Another conclusion without taking the time to read the author’s analysis?
Sigh… I’ve bought a huge library of non-JW to learn both sides of every discussion… I guess very few people are willing to look outside their comfort zone and do some homework.
This is getting tiresome.
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BibleSteve
Guest
Take the initiative to do some homework. I’ve pointed you at the book and pointed you to a review of the book…
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Meximo
Guest
I personally do not have the time to read another book right now. Could you answer the questions, please? With my reading list I probably won’t get to that link for another 6 months and I am sure other posters/reader would like to know too.
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revelations
Guest
Hello Steve,
This is the gist of what i got of the review. All he says is that depending on the Dogma of the translators either one could be correct. This does not help at all. If I’m right and Christ is eternal then you are wrong and in serious sin, if you are right and I am wrong then the whole dogma of the Catholic Church is 100% wrong. I will not concede that easily.
Both sides of the translation is biased. What is at fault is translation and language. But there must be a reason why one side is biased towards Christ being eternal? Let us find out why for 1940 years we believed that Jesus Christ was indeed God himself. Both of our bibles are faulty, let us stop quoting from them and turn to more reliable sources: History and tradition.
Let us look to the early church fathers and what they believed. Not the ones in 200-300 AD, because you never know, there might really have been a great apostasy, who knows. But lets look more at 33-100 AD. You cannot argue that these men, some of whom most likely knew Jesus in the flesh, are wrong and you’re organization is right? I sure do trust the ECF, who most likely knew Jesus, or knew someone that did, over the translators (this includes translators of all versions of the bible)
So, let’s look into this. What did they believe in 33, 40, 70 AD?
Anyone with pertinent information please link it so we can settle this.
Steve is right, this is seriously getting tiresome.
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teachccd
Guest
And I have tons of JW literature. Your “Reasoning with the Scriptures” is a real winner. It gives different scenerios as to what to say when going door to door. “If they say this, then you say that”. Almost none of JW material has references. This is so that no one can go to the sources and find the truth. Much of your literature states non-sense as fact. It will say something like this: **A Catholic Priest, Father John Doe, says that the Trinity is hogwash and was never accepted until the 10th century by pagan leaders of the Sun Worshipping clan. So there you have it. A reliable member of the Roman Catholic clergy acknowledges the error of Catholic theology. **No references or sources, just non-sense.
No. Sorry Steve. Your literature, especially “Should you believe in the Trinity” is absolutely misleading. I did my homework. Even your New World Translation has no names of the editors or translators. No references. Why??
Well because when I do the tedious work of looking up and finding the partial quotes noted in your literature, I can PLAINLY see the biased lies that are presented to your unsuspecting congregation. The quotes from the Early Church Fathers are grossly misused. You guys use a lot of **… **to blank out the context in which the quote is stated. Your literature will say: “Teachccd doesn’t like peanut butter…”, when the actual quote is: “Teachccd doesn’t like peanut butter on wheat bread.” And then you use that as “Proof” that Teachccd doesn’t like peanut butter.
It is mostly your organization that made me the fervent Catholic that I am today.My reverting so strongly back to Roman Catholicism involves a JW that I have known now for eight years. I hope and pray that every Catholic does their homework and sees what I saw. Not only would they run from the false teachings of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society but they would come to know and embrace the beauty of the truth of the Church of Jesus Christ. Yes, JW’s. Satan is alive and well and is smiling each time someone says, "Yes, I’d like a Bible Study with you Mr. JW…teachccd
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oneGODoneCHURCH
Guest
I am not a expert on scripture,but it is plain to see that you are only reading and choosing to believe what is good for you. The Revelation of ST. JOHN tells us that when
Christ returns and His Church and Rule as King is established upon the earth that his reign shall last for 1000 years at which time the finale destruction of the evil one and his followers shall be
administered and this earth and heaven shall pass and be joined as one for all to server at the throne for The Father and His Christ.
Also the 144,000 the is spoken of refer only to those of the Jewish faith that come to know Jesus as Christ and witness to the world of him leading to the finals days before his return.
Peace in Christ
Scott
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teachccd
Guest
When you talk with someone who has been brainwashed and attends meetings that are so scrutinized that the members are disciplined if their tie is crooked, then it can become very tiring. Jehovah’s Witnesses will say that they read Catholic resources on their own but that is either a lie or they are severely going against the elders’ teaching that our information is all from satan. Their information comes from their own twisted sources and taught as “official Roman Catholic” doctrine. Next time one comes to your door ask them to open to the back of their bible where they have a topical index. One says, " Mary worship" and then gives a few biblical quotes showing why we shouldn’t worship Mary. WE DON"T WORSHIP MARY. This is just one of hundreds of misleading information these unsuspecting souls are fed.
All of you out there who have not encoutered a JW PLEASE look at this for yourselves. I have done my homework and continue to talk with as many JW’s as I can. They are professional when it comes tho converting because what the Eucharist is to our faith, converting and increasing their numbers is to their faith. They are trained to do the biblical dance. They will have you all over the bible in the most convincing sequence that you can’t help but say, “Wow, I never knew that”. What’s ironic is that neither did they prior to very recent times.They say that their light is getting brighter every time they change their doctrines.
PLEASE do the homework and do not get trapped in their “Greek to English” translations schemes. They will always take one word and make a case around it. Their case that is anything but Catholic. they even took Jesus off of the Cross and put Him on a stake over the word “stauros” which could mean a stake without a cross member. But tradition and history proves that crucifixion was the method of execution and it involves a cross.
Anyway, good luck and don’t get tired…Keep up the good fight in the love of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, One God for ever and ever…teachccd
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revelations
Guest
To that, can we close this post now? I can only see it going on and on forever and ever.
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geraldffff
Guest
Great post, I too was driven back into the arms of the Catholic Church that I did not necessarily care to defend at the time. But what the JW were telling me was so outlandish I could not help but defend her. Im not very bright but God is merciful. My brother a professional sales man fit right in to their way of dealing with people. Close the sale no matter what outrageous things you have to make up to do it. So the watchtower publishing company gets richer and richer and their people get intellectually and spiritually poorer and poorer. I will continue to pray for them.And I have tons of JW literature. Your “Reasoning with the Scriptures” is a real winner. It gives different scenerios as to what to say when going door to door. “If they say this, then you say that”. Almost none of JW material has references. This is so that no one can go to the sources and find the truth. Much of your literature states non-sense as fact. It will say something like this: **A Catholic Priest, Father John Doe, says that the Trinity is hogwash and was never accepted until the 10th century by pagan leaders of the Sun Worshipping clan. So there you have it. A reliable member of the Roman Catholic clergy acknowledges the error of Catholic theology. **No references or sources, just non-sense.
No. Sorry Steve. Your literature, especially “Should you believe in the Trinity” is absolutely misleading. I did my homework. Even your New World Translation has no names of the editors or translators. No references. Why??
Well because when I do the tedious work of looking up and finding the partial quotes noted in your literature, I can PLAINLY see the biased lies that are presented to your unsuspecting congregation. The quotes from the Early Church Fathers are grossly misused. You guys use a lot of **… **to blank out the context in which the quote is stated. Your literature will say: “Teachccd doesn’t like peanut butter…”, when the actual quote is: “Teachccd doesn’t like peanut butter on wheat bread.” And then you use that as “Proof” that Teachccd doesn’t like peanut butter.
It is mostly your organization that made me the fervent Catholic that I am today.My reverting so strongly back to Roman Catholicism involves a JW that I have known now for eight years. I hope and pray that every Catholic does their homework and sees what I saw. Not only would they run from the false teachings of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society but they would come to know and embrace the beauty of the truth of the Church of Jesus Christ. Yes, JW’s. Satan is alive and well and is smiling each time someone says, "Yes, I’d like a Bible Study with you Mr. JW…teachccd
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bobzills
Guest
JW’s who come to my door seem to be decent family oriented people who know their Bible. Some of them have told me that they were Catholics before, but converted for one reason or another. They seem to be pretty serious about their religion.
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geraldffff
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Your welcome to your opinion, If you had a close family member that was one of they you might develop a different opinion after a while. Remember Judas, the trusted treasurer, was not the devoted follower that the other apostles though him to be.
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teachccd
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As with any religious belief one can be very decent and loving. They definitely know “their” bible because that is ALL they do. They conduct bible studies, they have bible school and they read Scripture cover to cover, starting with Genesis and ending with Revelation, at their weekly meetings. Along with the Watchtower magazine they discern Scripture at these meetings.
When one says that they were Catholic, I ask were they really? Did they have a full understanding of the tenets of our faith? Did they fully understand the Mass and the Eucharist? Many identify themselves as “Catholic” and have not stepped foot in a Church since their infant baptism or maybe at a wedding or Easter. A true practicing Catholic would never be persuaded to join such a misinformed and misleading group of “Christians”.
They are serious about their religion but this is coupled with the fear instilled in them if they do not perform. They must turn in a certain number of door to door hours and everything (including, believe it or not, whether they partake of communion at the Lord’s Evening Meal on the thursday before Easter) that they do to their headquarters in New York. they are scrutinized constantly by the elders and circuit overseers.
I NEVER mean to imply that the JW’s are anything but well meaning individuals who somehow fell into the trap of lies which seemed so attractive. Just pray for them and never ever give up the good fight to live and preach the true Church of Jesus Christ, the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church…God bless, teachccd
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teachccd
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As long as there is a JW out there that needs the truth then forever and ever it is…God Bless…teachccd
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teachccd
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And who told you that you are not very bright?? Didn’t see that in your post above…God Bless…teachccd
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ljprevo
Guest
That in and of itself does not mean thier religion and doctrine is TRUE!
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Randy_Carson
Guest
Gosh, BibleSteve, I find each of those questions puzzling and troubling.
I hope that you will be able to help me (and so many other Catholics who are lost) with these answers…
Thanks.
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ljprevo
Guest
Oh using scripture to suit your own needs?
Who is asking foolish questions? Who is using false doctrine?
What if it is us shunning your foollishing questions?
I do understand what the JW religion is all about, enough to know it IS false teachings, “period”
The Catholic church is the TRUE church that Christ started. So protestants take the bible that WE put together, then tell us, the authors of the book that “That is not what it means”
Go fig.
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celticcrusader
Guest
after the other nite i wasn’t going to bother with this discussion any more since it isn’t going anywhere fast but you know the irish’ we can’t let go of a good fight! so remember when RUSSELL said CHRIST came back invisibly in1874 and 40 yrs. later [1914] the visible events didn’t happen! Ihope we all know the rest of the story. now fast forward to 1990s , have you heard of Harold Camping of Family Radio? a very entertaing man if you don’t take him serious. anyway he has written several books fortelling the return of Christ &the end of the world! but funny thing ,when it dosn’t happen he says he miscalculated and has studied more and comes up with a new date sound familiar] he has quite a following & his people are dedicated to him and what he says " don’t believe what i say check it in the bible"] sound familiar] harold also hates the CATHOLIC CHURCH. anyway his latest prediction is 2011 or 2013 . what do the JWs say? I think maybe these guys went to the same school with different teachers ? so in closing you see these people change things to fit the situation. The CATHOLIC CHURCH same today as yesterday! OK i’ll get off my soap box for awhile.:knight1: :irish2:
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