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revelations
Guest
I personally subscribe to Mel Gibson’s prophecy of 2012…
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bobzills
Guest
Obviously, i am not claiming that. I am only saying that according to what I have observed, they appear to be decent, family oriented people, trying to lead good lives.
I would be interested to see a comparison between the divorce rates for JW as contrasted to that of Catholics. Here I am talking about civil divorces which are required before getting a marriage annulment.
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teachccd
Guest
Again I’ll emphasize that many are decent, family oriented people. And I don’t know what statistics show concerning divorce rates but I have heard that psychologically they have many problems. They are so brainwashed and they are taught not to think for themselves. They won’t admit to this because of the vast amounts of literature given to them from New York. They think that they are receiving good information on all topics and that the information is accurate. But ask one if they will read ONE BIT of anything that YOU give them. As soon as you hand it to them they are instructed to throw it away as it is satan diverting their truth.
You would have to be VERY naive to think that a faith is based on decent people and divorce rates. Our faith is evidential and is based on Jesus Christ and His Church that He left and continues to sustain by the guidance of the Holy Spirit. Please let us not be so accepting as to compromise Christ and His Church. Love the people but, for the sake of Christ, learn the truth.
Oh, and by the way, my JW friend and his wife have both been in for psychological treatments and while they remain married, he admits that there really isn’t much there. Their only common interest is the meetings at Kingdom Hall…God Bless…teachccd
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bobzills
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Obviously, it’s not the whole story, but it is one aspect of a religion which supports family life. I mean if you have one Church where anyone can get his or her marriage annulled for the silliest of reasons and where these annulment rates have gone through the roof, then questions are raised as to whether or not this Church is supporting family life as well as another Church where family life is strongly supported and this is reflected in a low divorce rate.
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teachccd
Guest
Where are the stats to support your claim? There are atheists that support a great family life. What is your point? Would you consider becoming a Jehovah’s Witness because of our annulment procedures? Did we forget about the hundreds of false doctrine that they support? What family value would I hold raising my kids in a faith that would jeopardize their salvation??
Yes, the Mormons, Jehovah’s Witnesses, many Protestants, Jews, Muslims, buddhists, New Agers, Santaria, and a whole lot of other faiths enjoy supporting family life. But is that how you discern your Catholic faith??
And for crying out loud if you think that the Catholic Church does not support family life, think again. The JW’s have no problem with contraception. In fact, in 1975 when they were so sure that Armageddon was emminent they recommended it. That sounds like a family value to me. And if you are disfellowshipped in their faith they simply ignore your existance. Sounds like a great family value…PLEEEZE…Wake up and smell the roses.
I’ll await your resources for your comparative divorce statistics concerning the Catholic Church versus the JW’s. I need percentages as the Catholic Church is 1.2 billion strong…God Bless, teachccd
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bobzills
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The statistics are in the “Statistical Yearbook of the Church”, published in Rome each year, by the Vatican Press. Some statistics from the USA figures:
Where are the stats to support your claim?
Annulments given out by the Catholic Church in the USA:
1930: 9
1989: 61, 416.
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geraldffff
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Marriage and the JW’s interesting concept. Their founder Russel and his wife did not get along and parted. So it should be no surprise if they wish to follow that example. My older brother divorced his wife of many years and mother of his five children. He claimed she was unfaithful to him. My wife and I knew her quite well and saw no evidence of marital infidelity. She was not a true believer and I believe his religious tenants allowed him to convince himself that her not going along with his religious whims was akin to adultery. Kinda like the old testament relationship with the chosen people Idolatry and Adultery. She lost custody of the children and the Watchtower paid his legal bills to accomplish that. The odd thing about that was three months after his final decree he married a devout JW woman. She was very nice but they parted in about 3 months. My experience in meeting another couple through my brother was that the wives are dutiful but miserable if they have any intelligence because they have to keep their mouths shut. My brothers wife had a mind of her own. I don’t necessarily think Catholics have anything to crow about with regard to these matters. But it’s a hard life for JW"s when they have to shun relatives who openly challenge them about the stuff they spread. It is my understanding that if the wife alleges abuse to the elders she has to have two witness to get any relief and can get disfellowshipped for presenting a complaint.
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Jaypeeto4
Guest
As an exJW, I will gladly bear them witness that they
preach very high moral standards, sexual purity (except they allow artificial contraception, out of genuine ignorance), the sanctity of marriage, personal integrity, and many JWs sincerely try to live by these guidelines. There is no doubting that.
Of course, some of that zeal can be attributed to the fear of being shunned by all their brothers via disfellowshiping, but nonetheless many of the JWs do lead clean lives.
Do they lie about the Catholic church and faith?
Yes they do, but overwhelmingly out of ignorance.
Even the ones that were once Catholic were no more than
Catholic-In-Name-Only, because otherwise they would never fall for the things the JW Watchtower Society attributes to the Catholic Church and faith. No informed Catholic could fall for
the JW religion. So the question is: are JWs, Mormons, SDAs, and Fundamentalist EX-CATHOLICS the unpaid bills of our church? Partly, yes. In some places catechesis is poor or the sermons at a particular parish may not contain much spiritual
“meat.” On the other hand, many exCatholics-turned-anti-Catholic give evidence that they never PAID ATTENTION in catechism class or to the Sunday sermons.
In my parish, our priest always preaches longer than the standard 15 to 20 minute homily/sermon, and his sermons are rich spiritual food, and you know what?? Parishoners actually dare to COMPLAIN about his sermons being too long. Good lord, where are their priorities??? They do God “the favor” of coming to Mass ONCE A WEEK and WANT the sermon to be over almost as soon as it began. That is not an attitude conducive to spiritual growth. Yet some of these people will fall victim to the preaching of the sects and cults. Small wonder why, eh??
Jaypeeto4
+JMJ+
preach very high moral standards, sexual purity (except they allow artificial contraception, out of genuine ignorance), the sanctity of marriage, personal integrity, and many JWs sincerely try to live by these guidelines. There is no doubting that.
Of course, some of that zeal can be attributed to the fear of being shunned by all their brothers via disfellowshiping, but nonetheless many of the JWs do lead clean lives.
Do they lie about the Catholic church and faith?
Yes they do, but overwhelmingly out of ignorance.
Even the ones that were once Catholic were no more than
Catholic-In-Name-Only, because otherwise they would never fall for the things the JW Watchtower Society attributes to the Catholic Church and faith. No informed Catholic could fall for
the JW religion. So the question is: are JWs, Mormons, SDAs, and Fundamentalist EX-CATHOLICS the unpaid bills of our church? Partly, yes. In some places catechesis is poor or the sermons at a particular parish may not contain much spiritual
“meat.” On the other hand, many exCatholics-turned-anti-Catholic give evidence that they never PAID ATTENTION in catechism class or to the Sunday sermons.
In my parish, our priest always preaches longer than the standard 15 to 20 minute homily/sermon, and his sermons are rich spiritual food, and you know what?? Parishoners actually dare to COMPLAIN about his sermons being too long. Good lord, where are their priorities??? They do God “the favor” of coming to Mass ONCE A WEEK and WANT the sermon to be over almost as soon as it began. That is not an attitude conducive to spiritual growth. Yet some of these people will fall victim to the preaching of the sects and cults. Small wonder why, eh??
Jaypeeto4
+JMJ+
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geraldffff
Guest
I have presented written testimony in the annulment process and do not think it an easy process. The shame might if the Church is wrong that there should have been 30,000 more annulments in 1930 rather than 9. For the jw’s it is “get out” and have people calling you in the middle of the night telling you that you are going to hell. I would take the Catholic way any day.
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revelations
Guest
I thought they didn’t believe in hell? Only that after you died you cease to exist? Either way this has been highly informative. I have learned a great deal, and feel all the more confident about my new found spirituality and faith in the OTC
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teachccd
Guest
You are correct. They do not believe in hell just complete annihilation. So you either live on a paradise earth, governed by the 144,000 spirit creatures, or poof you’re gone…I thought they didn’t believe in hell? Only that after you died you cease to exist? Either way this has been highly informative. I have learned a great deal, and feel all the more confident about my new found spirituality and faith in the OTC
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bobzills
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Obviously, you don’t know what you are talking about here, because the JW do not believe in hell.
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Dauphin
Guest
I think you’re confusing “the religion” and “the institution”.
The Catholic Church as a religion fully supports family life.
The Catholic Church as an institution could do alot better.
The failings of the institution don’t affect the truth of the religion.
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StBenMom
Guest
I have learned a lot reading this thread. I am so proud and, frankly, relieved to be Roman Catholic! The Catholics replying in this thread have really done their homework on JW’s. I am impressed. Thanks for sharing what you know.
Peace to all :byzsoc:
Peace to all :byzsoc:
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ljprevo
Guest
I agree with you, I have friends that are/were JW’s and they were VERY, VERY decent people. As far as morals go, they are fairly much in line with us. However they do not have the “truth”.
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DustinsDad
Guest
I can’t speak personally, I have never had friends or aquaintenances in this particular sect/cult. And I don’t know what the JW position is on such things as abortion, or the spiritual and corporal works of mercy. But even what you say is true, we must always remember that one doesn’t gain eternal life by simply being “nice people”. Being “nice” or even “moral” in the natural sense isn’t enough.
The devil can come under the guise of an angel of light - or a nice well dressed couple of JWs knocking at your door. And the devil is there to steal souls away from the One True God. Period.
Peace in Christ,
DustinsDad
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IrishJoe
Guest
keep putting up the walls… soon before you know it you’ll’ve built an ivory tower for yourself.
Keep telling yourself that the world is out to get you and eventually you wont have to tell yourself because it will…
Keep telling yourself that the world is out to get you and eventually you wont have to tell yourself because it will…
the devil can come in the form of a priest or a ‘Catholic’ so what is your point ?
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DustinsDad
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I’m not talking about putting up walls - in that you don’t try to evangilize JW folks - I’m talking about not getting lulled into taking their false religion or their evangilization efforts any less than seriously. Eternity is serious.
The world may not be - but the devil sure is. And he’s in the world my friend.
It sure can - and an individual priest or catholic can fall just as easily as you or I. And if they preach a false Christ, be prepared to do battle with the false doctrine that’s coming your way - such efforts are an act of charity, not an act of hostility.
I don’t want any soul to be lost to the devil for eternity. Not nice JW folks…Or mine.
Peace in Christ,
DustinsDad
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celticcrusader
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Jaypeeto4;3087640 said:
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Bayley
Guest
Back in October, I finished about a year or more of “Bible study” with a woman who is a Jehovah’s Witness. Somewhere along the line I decided that it was unfair of me to judge the JW’s without knowing just exactly what they’re all about. I made it clear from the very beginning that they were unlikely to change my mind about staying a Catholic, but that I was willing to listen to what she had to say. In the end, I was not convinced that becoming a Jehovah’s Witness was what God wanted of me.
I did ask her specifically about their belief that Jesus was crucified on a torture stake, rather than a cross. I pointed out that, in the Scriptures, it states that the nails were through his hands, not his wrists. She didn’t know how to answer that and promised to research it for our next visit. But, we never did discuss it again. We also discussed John 1:1, but she insisted that the passage didn’t mean that Jesus is God. There were many other points on which we disagreed. We discussed the topic of blood transfusions, but again, we never came to an agreement.
I also disagree with their concept of being of this world but not a part of it. I was told that they don’t participate in the political process, for this reason. They don’t join the military because it’s not in keeping with their beliefs. I may be wrong, but I don’t know how you can be your brother’s keeper, so to speak, and yet keep yourself apart from him or her. I don’t think anyone “believes” in war, but, the Bible does tell us that “there is a time for war and a time for peace.”
Anyway, I could go on and on, but this post is getting too long. I don’t think I will ever believe as the Jehovah’s Witnesses do, but I do admire their tenacity. They believe that God wants them to go door to door to and they do it. I don’t see a lot of others doing the same.
I did ask her specifically about their belief that Jesus was crucified on a torture stake, rather than a cross. I pointed out that, in the Scriptures, it states that the nails were through his hands, not his wrists. She didn’t know how to answer that and promised to research it for our next visit. But, we never did discuss it again. We also discussed John 1:1, but she insisted that the passage didn’t mean that Jesus is God. There were many other points on which we disagreed. We discussed the topic of blood transfusions, but again, we never came to an agreement.
I also disagree with their concept of being of this world but not a part of it. I was told that they don’t participate in the political process, for this reason. They don’t join the military because it’s not in keeping with their beliefs. I may be wrong, but I don’t know how you can be your brother’s keeper, so to speak, and yet keep yourself apart from him or her. I don’t think anyone “believes” in war, but, the Bible does tell us that “there is a time for war and a time for peace.”
Anyway, I could go on and on, but this post is getting too long. I don’t think I will ever believe as the Jehovah’s Witnesses do, but I do admire their tenacity. They believe that God wants them to go door to door to and they do it. I don’t see a lot of others doing the same.
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