Two more cardinals back Communion for divorced and remarried

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Speaking of Pauline epistles, would you mind explaining why the Catholic Church chooses to appoint bishops who DON’T meet explicit requirements for the position laid out in 1 Timothy? Because my impression is that we wouldn’t be having this conversation if the Catholic Church followed Paul’s advice.
Exhibit #78973 why you have been poorly catechized.

Watch this and then we can chat:

catholic.com/video/does-the-bible-say-all-bishops-must-be-married

And read this:

catholic.com/blog/tim-staples/must-bishops-be-the-husband-of-one-wife

It’s short.

Seriously, in your 12 years of Catholic education you never thought to ask your religion teacher this question? Why not?
 
Nope, it’s exactly as I said:

First divorce - accident.
Second divorce - coincidence.
Third divorce - sabotage.

So, no fourth marriage for you.
I would read it as 3rd marriage, being sabotage, is impermissible.

Unless you think the church should be in the business of embracing sabotage?
 
Seriously, in your 12 years of Catholic education you never thought to ask your religion teacher this question? Why not?
Because in 12 years of Catholic education me and other kids were never taught to read the Bible. Instead, we were taught a lot about grave dangers of masturbation.
 
Because in 12 years of Catholic education me and other kids were never taught to read the Bible.
Did you not go to Mass? Do you know that the Bible is read at Mass?

I am certain–100%–that you heard the reading from St. Paul regarding bishops.

That you didn’t ask your teachers your question, when you had the opportunity, is not the Church’s fault.
Instead, we were taught a lot about grave dangers of masturbation.
Can you articulate why the Church teaches this, (without resorting to Fr. Google)?

🍿
 
The idea of getting married as a form sabotage is, to put it mildly, at least weird.
I know, right?!!!

So how peculiar of you to bring it up as apologia for the 4th marriage shibboleth.

Why did you do that?
 
It’s amazing how the author of this piece is analyzing verse 2 with a microscope, while completely ignoring the verses that follow. Here, let me give you the whole thing in context:
1 Timothy:
2 Now the overseer is to be above reproach, faithful to his wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, 3 not given to drunkenness, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money. 4 He must manage his own family well and see that his children obey him, and he must do so in a manner worthy of full[a] respect. 5 (If anyone does not know how to manage his own family, how can he take care of God’s church?)
In case you have missed it, here it is again:
If anyone does not know how to manage his own family, how can he take care of God’s church?
 
Why did you do that?
I didn’t – I said third divorce is a sabotage (i.e. the third failure of relationship demonstrates that the person is definitely unfit for married life).

You’re saying that fourth marriage is a sabotage. This is, frankly, weird.
 
On October 17 I made a little prediction:

To those who think the Synod will end with a firm and unambiguous reaffirmation of traditional Church teaching on these issues, my best advice is: brace yourselves.

Now, I’ll make another. Regardless of the conservative backlash, and regardless of the public protests of prelates including Cardinals, Communion for remarried divorcees who have not and will not regularise their situation will be permitted, by Rome, in about a year from now. It’s all in the final relatio:
  1. The possibility of the divorced and remarried having access to the sacraments of Penance and the Eucharist was considered. Several Synod fathers insisted in favour of the current discipline, by virtue of the fundamental rapport between participation in the Eucharist and communion with the Church, and her teaching on the indissolubility of marriage. Others expressed a welcoming to the Eucharistic table that was not general, in certain particular situations and with strict conditions, especially in what concerns irreversible cases and related to moral obligations towards children who would endure unjust sufferings. The eventual access to the sacraments should be preceded by an accompanying penance under the responsibility of the diocesan bishop. The question must be further studied, bearing in mind the distinction between the objective situation of sin and extenuating circumstances, given that “the imputability and the responsibility for an action can be diminished or nullified” by diverse “psychological or social factors” (Catechism of the Catholic Church, 1735)
104 ayes, 74 noes = 58% in favour and 42% against.

A little clear thinking is needed here.

First, this text was included, by a decision of the Pope, in the final document even though it did not get the 2/3 majority technically required to pass. The fact that the votes for each paragraph were made public - also by a decision of the Pope - reveals that a substantial majority of the Synod voted in favour of it. It is almost certain that this substantial majority will reach 2/3 in the next Synod, and it probably doesn’t matter if it doesn’t. It will still go through.

Secondly, this speaks of remarried couples who do ***not ***abstain from sexual relations. The little bit about moral responsibility being ‘diminished or nullified’ is inserted for their benefit.

Thirdly, despite being apparently very limited in application, the permission to receive Communion will have a broad scope. If you have children you are automatically in, but you do not ***have ***to have children to qualify:

Others expressed a welcoming to the Eucharistic table that was not general, in certain particular situations and with strict conditions, **especially ** [but not exclusively] in what concerns irreversible cases [when would a second marriage not be considered ‘irreversible’?] and related to moral obligations towards children

What makes this issue a unique one for Catholics is that, for the first time, they will be confronted with a decision from Rome that they simply cannot in conscience accept. Giving the Blessed Sacrament to a couple who are in a state of ongoing sin adds up to sacrilege. The Church has never taught and can never teach otherwise. In this instance the perennial teaching of the Church is not in fact being directly altered; what is changing is the practice that implements it.

So what are faithful Catholics to do? By ‘faithful Catholics’ I mean Catholics who uphold in its entirety the teaching of the Church ***and ***submit to the direction of the hierarchy inasmuch as that hierarchy is in union with the Pope. Above all else they will not criticise or disobey the Pope. It has worked up until now, but in a year’s time the entire ball game changes. What are faithful Catholics to do? This is not baiting. It is a genuine question.
This is an interesting prediction. Making a determination of nullity easier–even making it a LOT easier–is one thing. Allowing for a prior negative tribunal decision to be overridden by a pastoral decision to allow for communion might even work, if it is made clear that the prior decision is in effect being overruled, and the existing marriage bond is null.

Completely ignoring the fact of an existing valid marriage bond is quite something else again. And from what I’ve read, it’s hard to determine whether this even entered the synod discussion.

Determining the bond never existed—yes the Church has done that all along.
Just ignoring a bond that presumably still exists—that’s something new.
 
I didn’t – I said third divorce is a sabotage (i.e. the third failure of relationship demonstrates that the person is definitely unfit for married life).

You’re saying that fourth marriage is a sabotage. This is, frankly, weird.
LOL!

Ok.

So your position is that 3rd divorce is sabotage. And 3rd marriage would be…what, then?
 
It’s amazing how the author of this piece is analyzing verse 2 with a microscope, while completely ignoring the verses that follow. Here, let me give you the whole thing in context:
Let’s just be clear: you are saying that according to Scripture a bishop must be married?

Is that your position?
 
Fair enough.

Although you do have to give me time to re-calibrate. I had to come to this understanding of the Orthodox position only after pulling your teeth. You were quite reluctant, peculiarly, to give me the teaching.

Still waiting for why 4 is the impermissible shibboleth.

What is the rationale for 4? Where did they come up with this number?
I apologize for getting angry. It was part of Byzantine civil law I think. As to exactly where they got that number from I don’t know.
 
Yes He did say that but then St Paul allows divorce in the so called Pauline Privilege. This is what I’m talking about.
The Pauline Privilege isn’t a sacramental marriage. St. Paul allows for the divorce and remarriage of Natural Marriages only, not Sacramental Marriages. And only in instances where the they were one becomes baptized AFTER he/she was married. Not before.
 
The Pauline Privilege isn’t a sacramental marriage. St. Paul allows for the divorce and remarriage of Natural Marriages only, not Sacramental Marriages. And only in instances where the they were one becomes baptized AFTER he/she was married. Not before.
I’m with you. I understand the teaching. I’m simply saying that is not Christ’s teaching as St Paul makes clear himself (I, not the Lord). What I still don’t understand is if St Paul can make an exception to what Christ said why can’t the Church? One person said it was because Paul had greater authority as a writer of Scripture. Of course there was no way he could know what he was writing would become Scripture. So when he made the exception he thought he was using his Apostolic authority.
 
I’m with you. I understand the teaching. I’m simply saying that is not Christ’s teaching as St Paul makes clear himself (I, not the Lord). What I still don’t understand is if St Paul can make an exception to what Christ said why can’t the Church? One person said it was because Paul had greater authority as a writer of Scripture. Of course there was no way he could know what he was writing would become Scripture. So when he made the exception he thought he was using his Apostolic authority.
Christ was laying down the rules for Sacramental Marriage.

St. Paul (like the other Apostles) was gifted by The Holy Spirit to speak/teach The Truth of Jesus Christ.

A Sacramental Marriage cannot be broken, except for death.

If you receive communion while living in sin, it’s the sin of scandal and it’s also sacrilege.

Now, if you want to make a theological argument that schism and/or apostasy are worse sins than scandal and sacrilege, then I’m all eyes and ears. 🙂

Refraining from the Sacraments when living in sin (even if only potential) protects us from sacrilege. And Protestants don’t even believe in the Sacraments, so someone leaving the Church for Protestantism makes even less sense.

Really, what it comes down to is Faith. Does the divorced person believe what the Church teaches or not. If they believe in the Sacraments, and that 1 or 2 divorces are ok, then they should become Eastern Orthodox. If they don’t believe in the sins of sacrilege and scandal; become a Protestant.

And if you say that Catholics have done a terrible job of teaching The Faith in the West, I will agree 110%
 
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