It says that it is directed to every human creature: "Furthermore, we declare, say, define, and proclaim** to every human creature **that for salvation it is absolutely necessary that they be entirely subject to the Roman Pontiff.”
Well, do you not believe that every human creature is indeed subject to the visible head of Christ’s Body here on earth?
My guess is that a Jew, a Muslim or an atheist would deny such. In any event, it seems like the teaching of the Catholic Church has changed somewhat on this issue.
Are you of the belief that an atheist can deny Christ yet still enter heaven?
My point is that it seems that there has been a serious change in the teaching of the Catholic Church here.
Which pagan religion had a event named the Christ Mass?’ just flow with the pagan flow’ oh come on. The Christian church is totally aligned with the Pagan flow**, Christmas and everything about it is pagan**, the same can be said about Easter. Both are stolen Pagan festivals
Hardly, all those quotes were well before the Reformation. Clearly the Reformation changed the context considerably. 500 or so years later we have Christians brought up in Reformed churches who have never been catechized but live lives as faithful Christians to the best of their abilities and education. The CCC is merely stating that modern Protestants are not guilty of the sin of schism, and that whether they are saved or not really is up to God, not humans.
I don’t think that everything about Christmas is pagan, although there were festivals such as the winter solstice celebrated about December 25 or so. Further, non-Christians did worship or venerate the evergreen tree and branches at least were brought into their houses for decoration at the time of the winter solstice.’ just flow with the pagan flow’ oh come on. The Christian church is totally aligned with the Pagan flow, Christmas and everything about it is pagan, the same can be said about Easter. Both are stolen Pagan festivals
Not a change. Just a development.
I think participation is optionalOver a thousand posts… This thread can’t end fast enough…
CAF has a limit on threads of 1000 posts. Mods will close it soon. Because, much like the game “telephone,” The thread will have moved on beyond the topic and because if you go back, we have posted the same stuff over and over, it just happens that no one remembers or will read all thousand posts. I had a personal rule not to post on threads that had more posts than I had. That is impossible now…I think participation is optional
Thanks, that’s good to know.
The most loudly touted theory about the origins of the Christmas date(s) is that it was borrowed from pagan celebrations. The Romans had their mid-winter Saturnalia festival in late December; barbarian peoples of northern and western Europe kept holidays at similar times. To top it off, in 274 C.E., the Roman emperor Aurelian established a feast of the birth of Sol Invictus (the Unconquered Sun), on December 25 Interestinglythe Roman winter solstice was marked on December 25th on the Julian calendar. Christmas, the argument goes, is really a spin-off from these pagan solar festivals. According to this theory, early Christians deliberately chose these dates to encourage the spread of Christmas and Christianity throughout the Roman world: If Christmas looked like a pagan holiday, more pagans would be open to both the holiday and the God whose birth it celebrated.
Is this in the New Testament somewhere?
Interesting. I have heard most of this in some way shape or form. But… so what? What’s the point? That Christmas is on the wrong day… really… it’s on the wrong year too! Or Christian holidays coincidentally align and morphed with secular holidays (pagan?)…The most loudly touted theory about the origins of the Christmas date(s) is that it was borrowed from pagan celebrations. The Romans had their mid-winter Saturnalia festival in late December; barbarian peoples of northern and western Europe kept holidays at similar times. To top it off, in 274 C.E., the Roman emperor Aurelian established a feast of the birth of Sol Invictus (the Unconquered Sun), on December 25 Interestinglythe Roman winter solstice was marked on December 25th on the Julian calendar. Christmas, the argument goes, is really a spin-off from these pagan solar festivals. According to this theory, early Christians deliberately chose these dates to encourage the spread of Christmas and Christianity throughout the Roman world: If Christmas looked like a pagan holiday, more pagans would be open to both the holiday and the God whose birth it celebrated.
Christ was born in the Autumn of the year. Many have mistakenly believed He was born around the beginning of Winter—December 25th! They are wrong! It was custom among Jews to send out their sheep to the deserts about the Passover [early spring], and bring them home at the commencement of the first rain. The first rains began in early-to-mid fall. During the time they were out, the shepherds watched them night and day. As the first rain began early in the month of March-esvan, which answers to part of our October and November [begins sometime in October], we find that the sheep were kept out in the open country during the whole Summer. And as these shepherds had not yet brought home their flocks, it is a presumptive argument that October had not yet commenced, and that, consequently, Jesus was not born on the 25th of December, when no flocks were out in the fields; nor could He have been born later than September, as the flocks were still in the fields by night. On this very ground, the nativity in December should be given up. The feeding of the flocks by night in the fields is a chronological fact.
Mistletoe and kissing under. This pagan custom was natural on a night that involved much revelry done in the spirit of drunken orgies, the berries symbolised fertility. Just like today, this “kissing” usually occurred at the beginning of any modern Saturnalia/Christmas celebration.
European pagans brought holly sprays into their homes, offering them to the fairy people of the forests as refuge from the harsh winter weather. During the Saturnalia, the Roman winter festival, branches of holly were exchanged as tokens of friendship. ‘Christmas tree’ from the Pagan festival of light, a celebration of the oncoming shorter nights, Pagans hated the night time because that was when the spirits, ghosts and illness was thought to come.
Birthdays, pagans always celebrated them, indulging themselves - Christ rejected celebrating birthdays, being a selfish inward thinking act.
Easter - celebration of the spring equinox,we see no celebration of Easter in the New Testament, early church leaders celebrated it, and today many churches are offering “sunrise services” at Easter – an obvious pagan solar celebration. The date of Easter is not fixed, but instead is governed by the phases of the moon – how pagan is that? Rabbits are a leftover from the pagan festival of Eostre, a great northern goddess whose symbol was a rabbit or hare. Exchange of eggs is an ancient custom, celebrated by many cultures. Hot cross buns are very ancient too. In the Old Testament we see the Israelites baking sweet buns for an idol, and religious leaders trying to put a stop to it. The early church clergy also tried to put a stop to sacred cakes being baked at Easter. In the end, in the face of defiant cake-baking pagan women, they gave up and blessed the cake instead.
I could go on but I think that I have made my point even if it is off topict
Jesus and God rejects all things Pagan (false Gods), the fact that throughout the entire bible there is no mention of birthdays would confirm that they are not a thing that should be celebrated. In fact they only started to celebrate them with the adoption of a heap of other pagan traditions.
I don’t think that is true. Roman male pagans took their hats off when they entered a building. Jewish males kept their heads covered. Yet, St. Paul adopted the pagan practice of having men remove their hats when entering a church.
