Two Syracuse Catholic churches are hosting transgender talks

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From the Syracuse Post Standard:
Two Syracuse Catholic Churches are hosting a series of talks on what it’s like to be transgender.

The series starts today at All Saints Catholic Church. Beginning at 10 a.m., parents of transgender children will talk about their experiences. Their talk goes until 11:30 a.m. and will be repeated this evening from 7 to 8:30 p.m.

All of the talks will be in the All Saints Parish Bishop Harrison Center, next to the church, at 1342 Lancaster Ave.

The series of events highlighting what it’s like to be transgender is sponsored by All Saints Catholic Church and St. Lucy’s Catholic Church.
There’s not much I can say within the bounds of charity and the forum rules…but I thought all of you ought to be aware of this.

Oh, and according to LifeSite:

The Diocese of Syracuse did not return a request for comment on the speaker/workshop series and whether the workshops and presentations violate Church teachings.
 
That’s VERY poorly defined word in popular use. To some people it means a person who has a genetic irregularity that lead to ambiguous reproductive genitalia AND ambiguous chromosomes (XXY, IIRC) such that it really IS hard to say for sure which gender the person is.

To others, the word covers anybody who “feels” like they should have been the other sex even though every measurable indicator says otherwise.

It’s a bad situation, but catholics shouldn’t lump the former in with the latter.
 
manualman said:
That’s VERY poorly defined word in popular use. To some people it means a person who has a genetic irregularity that lead to ambiguous reproductive genitalia AND ambiguous chromosomes (XXY, IIRC) such that it really IS hard to say for sure which gender the person is.

To others, the word covers anybody who “feels” like they should have been the other sex even though every measurable indicator says otherwise.

It’s a bad situation, but catholics shouldn’t lump the former in with the latter.
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My understanding is that the current term for the former is “intersexed”, while the term for the latter is “transgender”
 
Perhaps they feel that if the rest of us had a better understanding of what it’s like to be transgendered, we’d be able to think and act with a little more charity.
 
markomalley said:
To what end, Agnes?
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Perhaps toward showing us that these brothers and sisters also carry a cross and the more we know the more we can help. Charity can also dislodge the plank from our eyes so that we can deal with our prejudices and shortcomings.
 
agnes_therese said:
Really? You don’t see any value in treating others with charity?

That’s sad.
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Is there a reason why you didn’t answer my question?

Maybe you didn’t understand the question, so I’ll try asking it in a different fashion.

Do you:

    • Think that the reason they are doing this is so that we can understand their plight and be able to minister to them more effectively (while maintaining the moral standards of the Church) (analogous to the “Courage” agenda in regards to the homosexual community)?
    • Think that the reason they are doing this is so that we will feel guilty about being somehow institutionally trans-phoblic and will assent to their agenda and effectively abandon the Church’s doctrine on the subject? (analogous to the “Dignity” agenda in regards to the homosexual community)
    • Or some other purpose?
    As far as treating somebody charitably, remember the first three of the spiritual works of mercy:
    • Admonish the sinner
    • Instruct the ignorant
    • Counsel the doubtful
 
TheDoctor said:
Perhaps toward showing us that these brothers and sisters also carry a cross and the more we know the more we can help. Charity can also dislodge the plank from our eyes so that we can deal with our prejudices and shortcomings.
Click to expand...
I am old enough to remember back in the 70s when the pleas of the homosexual community was to just not be attacked and to be left alone.

We’re a long, long, long way from that now.
 
markomalley said:
I am old enough to remember back in the 70s when the pleas of the homosexual community was to just not be attacked and to be left alone.

We’re a long, long, long way from that now.
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We are seeing how sin grows when it’s left alone.

“The more one understands the holiness of God, the more one understands the opposite of what is holy, namely, the deceptive masks of the devil. Jesus Christ himself is the greatest example of this: before him, the Holy One, Satan could not keep hidden and was constantly compelled to show himself. So one might say that the disappearance of the awareness of the demonic indicates a related decline in holiness. The devil can take refuge in his favorite element, anonymity, if he is not exposed by the radiance of the person united to Christ.” - The Ratzinger Report, page 148
 
agnes_therese said:
Really? You don’t see any value in treating others with charity?

That’s sad.
Click to expand...
TheDoctor said:
Perhaps toward showing us that these brothers and sisters also carry a cross and the more we know the more we can help. Charity can also dislodge the plank from our eyes so that we can deal with our prejudices and shortcomings.
Click to expand...
Oh, by the way…Pope Benedict XVI had some interesting thoughts on the subject:

The Chief Rabbi of France, Gilles Bernheim, has shown in a very detailed and profoundly moving study that the attack we are currently experiencing on the true structure of the family, made up of father, mother, and child, goes much deeper. While up to now we regarded a false understanding of the nature of human freedom as one cause of the crisis of the family, it is now becoming clear that the very notion of being – of what being human really means – is being called into question. He quotes the famous saying of Simone de Beauvoir: “one is not born a woman, one becomes so” (on ne naît pas femme, on le devient). These words lay the foundation for what is put forward today under the term “gender” as a new philosophy of sexuality. According to this philosophy, sex is no longer a given element of nature, that man has to accept and personally make sense of: it is a social role that we choose for ourselves, while in the past it was chosen for us by society. The profound falsehood of this theory and of the anthropological revolution contained within it is obvious. People dispute the idea that they have a nature, given by their bodily identity, that serves as a defining element of the human being. They deny their nature and decide that it is not something previously given to them, but that they make it for themselves. According to the biblical creation account, being created by God as male and female pertains to the essence of the human creature. This duality is an essential aspect of what being human is all about, as ordained by God. This very duality as something previously given is what is now disputed. The words of the creation account: “male and female he created them” (Gen 1:27) no longer apply. **No, what applies now is this: it was not God who created them male and female – hitherto society did this, now we decide for ourselves. Man and woman as created realities, as the nature of the human being, no longer exist. **Man calls his nature into question. From now on he is merely spirit and will. The manipulation of nature, which we deplore today where our environment is concerned, now becomes man’s fundamental choice where he himself is concerned. From now on there is only the abstract human being, who chooses for himself what his nature is to be. Man and woman in their created state as complementary versions of what it means to be human are disputed. But if there is no pre-ordained duality of man and woman in creation, then neither is the family any longer a reality established by creation. Likewise, the child has lost the place he had occupied hitherto and the dignity pertaining to him. Bernheim shows that now, perforce, from being a subject of rights, the child has become an object to which people have a right and which they have a right to obtain. **When the freedom to be creative becomes the freedom to create oneself, then necessarily the Maker himself is denied and ultimately man too is stripped of his dignity as a creature of God, as the image of God at the core of his being. **The defence of the family is about man himself. And it becomes clear that when God is denied, human dignity also disappears. Whoever defends God is defending man.
 
manualman said:
That’s VERY poorly defined word in popular use. To some people it means a person who has a genetic irregularity that lead to ambiguous reproductive genitalia AND ambiguous chromosomes (XXY, IIRC) such that it really IS hard to say for sure which gender the person is.

To others, the word covers anybody who “feels” like they should have been the other sex even though every measurable indicator says otherwise.

It’s a bad situation, but catholics shouldn’t lump the former in with the latter.
Click to expand...
The form case is “intersex”

In the latter case when by physical measurable indicators it is in accordance with birth sex, but by psychological measures is of the opposite sex that is what is usually called transgender.
markomalley said:
Is there a reason why you didn’t answer my question?

Maybe you didn’t understand the question, so I’ll try asking it in a different fashion.

Do you:

    • Think that the reason they are doing this is so that we can understand their plight and be able to minister to them more effectively (while maintaining the moral standards of the Church) (analogous to the “Courage” agenda in regards to the homosexual community)?
    • Think that the reason they are doing this is so that we will feel guilty about being somehow institutionally trans-phoblic and will assent to their agenda and effectively abandon the Church’s doctrine on the subject? (analogous to the “Dignity” agenda in regards to the homosexual community)
    • Or some other purpose?
    As far as treating somebody charitably, remember the first three of the spiritual works of mercy:
    • Admonish the sinner
    • Instruct the ignorant
    • Counsel the doubtful
Click to expand...

  1. 40.png
    CCC:
    2447 The works of mercy are charitable actions by which we come to the aid of our neighbor in his spiritual and bodily necessities.242** Instructing, advising, consoling, comforting are spiritual works of mercy, as are forgiving and bearing wrongs patiently.** The corporal works of mercy consist especially in feeding the hungry, sheltering the homeless, clothing the naked, visiting the sick and imprisoned, and burying the dead.243 Among all these, giving alms to the poor is one of the chief witnesses to fraternal charity: it is also a work of justice pleasing to God:244
    Click to expand...
 
markomalley said:
Is there a reason why you didn’t answer my question?

Maybe you didn’t understand the question, so I’ll try asking it in a different fashion.

Do you:

    • Think that the reason they are doing this is so that we can understand their plight and be able to minister to them more effectively (while maintaining the moral standards of the Church) (analogous to the “Courage” agenda in regards to the homosexual community)?
    • Think that the reason they are doing this is so that we will feel guilty about being somehow institutionally trans-phoblic and will assent to their agenda and effectively abandon the Church’s doctrine on the subject? (analogous to the “Dignity” agenda in regards to the homosexual community)
    • Or some other purpose?
    As far as treating somebody charitably, remember the first three of the spiritual works of mercy:
    • Admonish the sinner
    • Instruct the ignorant
    • Counsel the doubtful
Click to expand...

  1. Excellent, Mark! Why is there such confusion about true charity which, contrary to a sentimentality of affection, is actually an act of the will which always desires the very best for another.
 
Tigg said:
Excellent, Mark! Why is there such confusion about true charity which, contrary to a sentimentality of affection, is actually an act of the will which always desires the very best for another.
Click to expand...
In charity, I must force myself to assume naivete.
 
I’ve never heard the term ‘transgendered’ used to mean a person with ambiguous genitalia, sexual dimorphism, or sex chromosome abnormalities. The term ‘intersexed’ is used for such cases.

Given that the article is pretty scant on details, I’m going to have to give this parish the benefit of the doubt and assume they are working within the bounds of Catholic teaching until given evidence to the contrary. Is there something sinful about "talking about one’s experiences as a transgendered person/parent of a transgendered person?
 
Brandon_Cal said:
I’ve never heard the term ‘transgendered’ used to mean a person with ambiguous genitalia, sexual dimorphism, or sex chromosome abnormalities. The term ‘intersexed’ is used for such cases.

Given that the article is pretty scant on details, I’m going to have to give this parish the benefit of the doubt and assume they are working within the bounds of Catholic teaching
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I think a discussion of what it means to be transgendered, what is Catholic teaching relating to transgenderism, and how the two intersect, would be very useful. Those things, however, do not seem to be the focus of the conference.
 
Unfortunately I don’t believe this is a going to be that simple because this is not the first time something like this has happened at the All Saints Church
Syracuse Catholic Church hosts Gay Pride prayer service
cnycentral.com/news/story.aspx?id=908607#.Uw-7m6y6FuM
Its a little strange and as a resident of Syracuse I’ve gone by the parish even on their sign they have a gay pride sticker of the rainbow flag in the corner of it.
 
Its not a matter of charity. The whole thing smells IMO. Why does a catholic church need to host such a forum?! And some gay pride prayer service is beyond the pale!
 
markomalley said:
As far as treating somebody charitably, remember the first three of the spiritual works of mercy:
  • Admonish the sinner
  • Instruct the ignorant
  • Counsel the doubtful
Click to expand...
Feelings are not sinful. Regardless of the reality of male and female, there are many who suffer from there feelings of conflict over their gender. It is totally right an proper that the Catholic Church, in charity, address all who suffer, especially children, and leave the science to the scientist. Now I do not believe in transgender, and will not until the science becomes clear which I doubt will ever happen. But the phenomena is undeniably growing (evidence of a psychological causality, in my opinion). As long as the needs of the children are addressed within the scope of Catholic teaching, I do not see what the problem is.
 
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