U.S. Bishops Call for Prayers, Pledge to Work for Comprehensive Immigration Bill

[GregoryPalamas]

On the contrary, I believe “Normalizing” slavery is absurb. Let’s call it like it is. The imigration system is broken. Iti s broken because we are not enforcing our existing laws. The repair is not to be done with more legislation but with enforcement.

It is racist to allow these people to break the law simply to provide a source of cheap labor. Is it that Mexiacan are good enough to cut our lawns and trim our hedges, but we do not expect them to go the legitimate route for citizenship or residency?

We should only let people into this country, from any other country, who want to be citizens. My family came here and were proud of becoming citizens. The lion’s share of these folks are not interested in legitimate citizenry, but are just working the system. Get them out.

The people on welfare who do not belong there are perfectly capable of working. Why support them if they will not work. That is what we did 50 to 60 years ago and it worked fine.

If we continue to go done the path we are going, this nation , as we know it, will disappear. I don’t know about you, but that is unacceptable for me.

I think I agree with you. It is racist to think that Mexicans are not able to go through the proper channels and yet are capable of work for cheap wages.

CDL

 

[kellicouch77]

Are you understanding what I am saying about the polls? I am afraid that we have a miscommunication someplace. Perhaps it would help me a little bit if you clue me in on whether you align yourself as a conservative or liberal. I find it easier if I know where your political philosophy lies, and whether or not I need further illustrate my political points. I enjoy a great debate, and can do this all day long

Now, your comment on sanctuary cities:

Those illegals stopped in a sanctuary city are not arrested. Immigration is not called. This is a direct violation of federal law.

 

[meeshy]

It is impossible to poll everyone- that is why a demographic sample is taken. I don’t know how to further explain that to you. These polls are scientific!

Please don’t try and use the “look what we did to Native Americans” argument. That isn’t relevant to this debate.

1. Polling 1000 to 5000 people, no matter what the demographics, and saying it is a correct representation of all of the 301 million people living here is ridiculous.
2. What we did to the Native Americans is indeed relevant to this debate. We are talking about points in history. We’re supposed to LEARN from history and from our mistakes.

Peace,
Meeshy

 

[meeshy]

Those illegals stopped in a sanctuary city are not arrested. Immigration is not called. This is a direct violation of federal law.

Wrong. They are stopped and arrested for crimes other than immigration crimes.

Show me some proof because your statement is wrong.

Peace,
Meeshy

 

[kellicouch77]

Look no further than the situation in Virginia Beach Virginia where an illegal was arrested (not deported) FIVE times. He ended up being in a car accident where he killed two girls. Immigration was not contacted when he broke the law the first time. He should have been deported after the first time. My statement is not wrong. I am offering to you some proof, and you refuse to accept those.

Our federal laws are being violated by those who come into our country illegally. That is where the problem lies.

If we cannot control our borders, we cannot hold onto our sovereignity. We will cease to be America, the greatest nation in the world. Illegal immigrants drive down wages for working Americans, participate in fraudulent abuse of the social security system, and abuse our medical care systems (look at the hospital care in border towns).

 

[meeshy]

Look no further than the situation in Virginia Beach Virginia where an illegal was arrested (not deported) FIVE times. He ended up being in a car accident where he killed two girls. Immigration was not contacted when he broke the law the first time. He should have been deported after the first time. My statement is not wrong. I am offering to you some proof, and you refuse to accept those.

This happens all the time with citizens, as well, and we cannot deport our own citizens!

Perfect case in point: my alcoholic ex-husband. Want to know how many times he drove drunk? Want to know how many times he was arrested for it? Once he was arrested twice in the same day! Obviously he was let go the first time! He spent six months in jail for driving drunk. When he got out, he drove drunk again and again and again. He drove while under suspension. He drove without insurance. He drove in any circumstance there was. He totaled my car once and caused damage to several other cars. He was in danger of going to jail again for a few years when he abandoned me and my two-year-old daughter and moved to another state. Never saw him again, never heard from him again, never received one dime in child support. That was 16 years ago. He most likely drove drunk a thousand more times until he was finally put away or killed.

The point is, you cannot control the behavior of certain human beings. Using those humans to make a statement against other humans is ludicrous.

Peace,
Meeshy

 

[kellicouch77]

You are missing the point. Those who are here illegally can be deported. While our citizens cannot be deported, those who have violated our laws by sneaking in here can be.

You are right- we have enough drunk drivers here in America that are citizens. Let’s deport the illegals so that they cannot drive drunk and kill someone. If that illegal who killed those girls in Virginia Beach had been deported, those girls would still be with us today. Instead their lives were cut short by someone who wasn’t even supposed to be in this country in the first place.

 

[meeshy]

As usual, it’s a question of the powerful versus the powerless.

To me, there is no issue; someone asks for help, you give them help.

The fault lies with the American government for denying help a long time ago when people still bothered to apply for visas. After so many rejected applications, people got the hint that it’s no use to apply through legal channels, even for a visitor visa.

Two years ago a friend of mine from Argentina wanted to visit the U.S., and went through the normal channels of applying for a visa at the U.S. consulate in Buenos Aires. While all around him at the consulate people were being approved for travel visas, he was flatly rejected with no chance to show any of his documents at all.

Why? Profiling. Although this man was a property owner in Argentina, was a lawyer, had children, had money, and was only applying for a visitor visa, he was profiled because of his age, sex, and divorced status. He was the perfect candidate for a visitor and yet he was denied.

In case people don’t know the process, this is how one applies for a visa. There is no magical “background check,” no nothing. You go to the embassy, you have an interview with an American embassy worker, you (supposedly) have a chance to show your bank account documents, property ownership documents, etc., and then you are given a decision on the spot: rejected or accepted.

In case anybody thinks it’s different, ask around. Ask your friends in foreign countries how they apply for a travel visa to come here. It’s an archaic and subjective process; not scientific in the least.

As I said, it’s a question of the powerful, the powerless, quotas, and stereotypes, nothing more. I do not find this to be “just” in any way, shape, or form.

Peace,
Meeshy

 

[meeshy]

Great! Luckily, the new legislation has tougher laws and more border security. In fact, no “Z Visas” will be issued until evidence of the improved border security and tamper-proof ID system are demonstrated.

I think you have this incorrect. No guest worker visas will be issued until the border has been secured. Z visas will be issued immediately.

If I have read this section (Title VI of the bill) incorrectly, please provide the exact wording of the bill.

Thanks,
Meeshy

 

[meeshy]

This quote is from the letter of Father John Trigilio to the Gang of 18, dated May 22, 2007.

However, it is also 100% applicable in the immigration reform debate:

“Any and all civil laws which contradict the Divine and/or the Natural Law are invalid and have no obligation upon anyone. If that were not the case, then slavery, segregation and anti-Semitism would have to be tolerated if some legislature or court upheld laws supporting these atrocities. Thankfully, even the evil of apartheid is finally gone, though it had been legal for centuries in South Africa.”

Fr. John Trigilio, Jr., Ph.D., was ordained a priest for the Diocese of Harrisburg in 1988. He is a member of the Board of Directors of the Confraternity of Catholic Clergy and Editor of the Confraternity’s international newsletter. He is a cooperator in Opus Dei, and the founder of the Fraternity of Mary (Fraternitas Marialis Regina Cleri). He appears regularly on EWTN.

Peace,
Meeshy

 

[rlg94086]

I think you have this incorrect. No guest worker visas will be issued until the border has been secured. Z visas will be issued immediately.

If I have read this section (Title VI of the bill) incorrectly, please provide the exact wording of the bill.

Thanks,
Meeshy

Could be…it’s been a little while since I read the data. However, my point is that the tighter border security requirements are part of the bill, and actually act as a trigger.

 

[rlg94086]

How does that apply to the immigration reform? Are you saying that laws limiting immigration contradict Divine and/or Natural Law?

This quote is from the letter of Father John Trigilio to the Gang of 18, dated May 22, 2007.

However, it is also 100% applicable in the immigration reform debate:

“Any and all civil laws which contradict the Divine and/or the Natural Law are invalid and have no obligation upon anyone. If that were not the case, then slavery, segregation and anti-Semitism would have to be tolerated if some legislature or court upheld laws supporting these atrocities. Thankfully, even the evil of apartheid is finally gone, though it had been legal for centuries in South Africa.”

Fr. John Trigilio, Jr., Ph.D., was ordained a priest for the Diocese of Harrisburg in 1988. He is a member of the Board of Directors of the Confraternity of Catholic Clergy and Editor of the Confraternity’s international newsletter. He is a cooperator in Opus Dei, and the founder of the Fraternity of Mary (Fraternitas Marialis Regina Cleri). He appears regularly on EWTN.

Peace,
Meeshy

 

[kellicouch77]

A comment made was that when people need help, then you should give it. If we help everyone, and allow anyone to enter, then we will be a third world country as well. It won’t be long before our infrastructure collapses under the weight.

The problem with the liberal mentality on this issue is the fact that liberals are leading with their hearts. It is a great idea to give help to everyone, but not feasible. As a liberal, you can vote for politicians who support amnesty, support open borders, carbon offsets, etc., and you think you are doing your part to help others. In reality, you are only creating bigger dependence on a strained government.

The problem with illegal immigration cannot be solved by the left (or the Republicans in the Senate either). It cannot be fixed by simply legalizing the illegals. It cannot be solved by asking them to pay a fine and report back to their country of origin to get more paperwork. They will not go home to do this. Oh sure, some will, I give you that, but the overwhelming majority will not. Many have no desire to become Americans (as evidenced by the rallies last year where more foreign flags were flown than American ones). They wish to maintain their national identity, and continue to send money back to Mexico (or their country of origin).

One more: what is your point with the natural/ divine law? Are you equating illegal immigrants with slavery? Please clarify your point.

 

[meeshy]

My point, in quoting Father Trigilio, is that our current laws are unjust according to God, but they are just according to man.

Father gives the examples of slavery, segregation, and anti-Semitism in his letter as unjust laws which existed in the past and were enforced by our government and other world governments.

I included that section of his letter specifically to point out that nobody breaking those past laws was truly a criminal, but the governments arrested them, tried them, and punished them as criminals, or in many cases ignored due process and just killed them or tortured them. Those who aided the so-called criminals were also punished, killed, or tortured.

This is exactly what’s going on today. Opponents to immigration hide behind the existing laws, claiming that certain illegals are criminals and those who employ them are criminals also. I don’t see it that way and neither do our Bishops.

Our U.S. Bishops as a whole have declared our current immigration laws unjust. They mention the words “unjust laws” many times on their Justice for Immigrants website. Indeed, even the name of the website indicates that justice is lacking for immigrants.

Feel free to argue the point, but neither I nor our Bishops nor the millions of illegal immigrants and their supporters will change our opinions.

Peace,
Meeshy

 

[meeshy]

A comment made was that when people need help, then you should give it. If we help everyone, and allow anyone to enter, then we will be a third world country as well. It won’t be long before our infrastructure collapses under the weight.

I think you should read the history of Mother Theresa and the Missionaries of Charity. They never refuse to help anyone and they never solicit donations. They pray, go to Mass, adore Christ in the Blessed Sacrament, and serve the poor. And the money they need to continue their work always comes. Sometimes a little less, sometimes a little more. But it always comes.

Families who practice NFP and who are open to God’s will, who attend Mass, pray, and go to adoration also find that God provides for the needs of all their children. Sometimes they have plenty to go around. Sometimes it’s a little tight, sometimes very tight. But God always provides.

Americans have a lot of fears. They fear being poor; they fear germs, being sick, and dying; they fear embracing those of other cultures; they fear having their posessions taken from them; they fear growing old; they fear not being the most powerful nation on earth; the list goes on.

The truth is this: if we do as God wants us to do, he will always help us. Does it mean we’ll always be prosperous financially? No. But we’ll survive. We survived the Great Depression, the gas crisis of the 70’s, and various recessions. Sometimes we’re up, sometimes we’re down. That’s just life and that’s the way God wants it.

Closing our doors is against God’s law. It is one more symptom of the culture of death.

Peace,
Meeshy

 

[kellicouch77]

Now, I am really insulted that you think compare me and others who oppose amnesty for illegals to Nazis or slave owners. No one that opposes illegal immigration has declared that illegals should be rounded up and exterminated, or entered into slavery.

The vast majority of Americans oppose illegal immigration. We are not Nazis or bigots. This debasing argument only shows that I am indeed to talking to a liberal. This debate is over: you have resorted to name calling, and left the arena of the issues.

 

[meeshy]

Nope, never compared anybody to anybody else.

I simply quoted a letter from a priest who mentions unjust laws, and I said our immigration laws are unjust, as certain other laws have been unjust in the past. I said that people today hide behind unjust laws when making arguments against immigration.

I engaged in no name calling. Please read properly and don’t infer.

Peace,
Meeshy

 

[meeshy]

Regarding opening our doors to anyone who needs our help:

Jesus said, “I give you My word, there is no one who has given up home, brothers or sisters, mother or father, children or property, for Me and for the gospel who will not receive in this present age a hundred times as many homes, brothers and sisters,
mothers, children and property — and persecution besides — and in the age to come, everlasting life” (Mk 10:29-30).

Peace,
Meeshy

 

[Godi]

Where have I said that?

The new legislation fines those who broke the immigration laws, gives them a special work visa and puts them at the back of the line for any chance of getting a green card.

It also requires a national, tamper-proof ID and requires the employer to verify the ID of the employer (something that is not required today).

The purpose is to clean up the current situation and create a workable system that can be enforced.

Who is going to enforce this? How are we going to track them down? What are the penalties for not obeying? When Criminals pay no attention to the current laws, what makes you think that they will welcome & obey the new ones? Scoflaws and criminals, what makes you think they will be desirable citizens?:shrug:

 

[Godi]

I think you should read the history of Mother Theresa and the Missionaries of Charity. They never refuse to help anyone and they never solicit donations. They pray, go to Mass, adore Christ in the Blessed Sacrament, and serve the poor. And the money they need to continue their work always comes. Sometimes a little less, sometimes a little more. But it always comes.

Families who practice NFP and who are open to God’s will, who attend Mass, pray, and go to adoration also find that God provides for the needs of all their children. Sometimes they have plenty to go around. Sometimes it’s a little tight, sometimes very tight. But God always provides.

Americans have a lot of fears. They fear being poor; they fear germs, being sick, and dying; they fear embracing those of other cultures; they fear having their posessions taken from them; they fear growing old; they fear not being the most powerful nation on earth; the list goes on.

The truth is this: if we do as God wants us to do, he will always help us. Does it mean we’ll always be prosperous financially? No. But we’ll survive. We survived the Great Depression, the gas crisis of the 70’s, and various recessions. Sometimes we’re up, sometimes we’re down. That’s just life and that’s the way God wants it.

Closing our doors is against God’s law. It is one more symptom of the culture of death.

Peace,
Meeshy

FEAR? FEAR? FEAR!! Obey the LAW OF SOCIETY, FOLLOW RULES & IMMIGRATE L-E-G-A-L-L-Y!!! YOU KNOW RENDER TO CEASAR… what is wrong with you? What part of Criminal don’t you understand? No one says close the doors. COME LEGALLY. What is the problem? A shortage of pens? Paper? Make out the application in Chinese for all anyone cares but APPLY.