U.S. Bishops Praise DREAM Act Progress in House

[NewEnglandPriest]

Ahhhh so. No boundaries, anywhere? anytime? If I were to go to Mexico without proper documentation, I would be arrested and jailed w/o trial, because I would be illegally there. Ergo, in shorthand, I would be an illegal.

If I understand it correctly, the DREAM Act deals with children who were brought here and not the parents who were the ones who broke the law. Many of these children barely speak spanish and have never known another country/culture other than the USA. It would seem kind of cruel to punish them for the sins of their parents by deporting them to a country they’ve never really known…

 

[Petergee]

Ahhhh so. No boundaries, anywhere? anytime?

That is an absurd distortion. Neither the pope, nor the bishops, nor I, nor as I understand it the proposed legislation, has proposed anything like “no boundaries anywhere anytime”.

 

[Petergee]

would you please show us where in the New Testament our Lord said that it’s immoral for a government to help the poor, sick, immigrants, and other needy people and that all help for them must be done one-on-one, not collectively?
(Would you please show me where He said it is moral?)
Would you please show me where He said “Anything which I am not recorded in the Gospels as specifically saying is moral, you may declare that I said it is immoral”?
*
He certainly said that people have a duty to pay taxes to governments
He said, "Render to Caesar what IS Caesar’s and to God what is God’s.) More is owed to the upstanding lawful citizens of this country than those who unfortunately were brought here ILLEGALY by their parents. *
That does not make such people “unlawful”.
“Do not punish a child for the sin of his father” Ezekiel 18:20.*

Let them apply for citizenship, get a job and work their way through college. That is the way many young legal citizens of the US do it today.*
These people as just as “legal” as you are. there is no such thing as an “illegal person”. And as I understand it the proposed legisaltions aims to let them do just what you propose.
*
If He did say what you claim, His Apostles certainly didn’t get the message, but did the exact opposite. In fact at the first pope’s invocation, God imposed the death penalty on those who didn’t completely comply with this “socialism”: see Acts of the Apostles 2:44-45; 4:32 – 5:11.
I would suggest you get the History of the Catholic Church straightened out in your mind. How about going to www.realcatholictv.com* or listening to Father John Corapi’s tapes.
I’m sure that TV network and that series of tapes are very fine, but I’m sure their proprietors would take no offence if I consider that God’s own inerrant Word is of greater import and authority.
*
Reality check: Is it Europe or is it the USA where infant mortality rates are higher than in many impoverished Third World countries?
Give me the statistics and the source.*
What, you’re claiming this is not so? How blinkered can you be? *
Is it Europe or the USA where the #1 cause of bankruptcy is the inability to pay for medical bills?

As I understand it, Greece, much of Europe is bankrupt with the US soon to follow not only becuse of inability to pay medical bills, but because of greed and overspending.*
By their banks and the governments which guarantee them. I am obviously talking about personal bankruptcy. Obviously a government or a bank does not require medical treatment.

(This happened to my parents, they were told because of their age that they could travel anywhere in the world with the single exception of the USA because they couldn’t buy travel medical insurance to go there.)
Source please and was this as decision made in Europe, or in the US?
I’m certainly not going to give you my parents’ medical, travel and insurance details. They live in Australia, but I understand all insurers outside the USA have a similar policy because of the astronomical cost of medical and hospital treatment there. Surely you are aware that there is even a program, actually suppoorted by some State governments in the US, to illegally import medicines for US citizens because the cost in US pharmacies is so prohibitive, because of the US’s insane lack of any universal health scheme for its citizens…
*
Never fear, no matter how much “socialism” there is, there will always be plenty of opportunity and scope for you to exercise Christian charity to those in need of your personal help.
There would be many more opportunities for many more people for Christian acts if they were not being taught to ignore their neighbor and the neighbor demanding that everything be given to them by the government.,*
Who on earth is teaching you to ignore your neighbour? Simply ignore this anti-Christian teaching. If somebody is asking the government for something he needs, I’m sure he won’t mind if you give it to him. God certainly won’t mind.
*
If only governments would “force” their citizens to exercise a few more Christian duties, what a much better world this would be.
Gee, I thought it was separation of state and religion. Now you are telling me, the government should get religion?*

Absolutely. Not in adopting a compulsory State Religion, but at least insofar as implementing Christian and universal natural law principles of love for one’s neighbour.

 

[Petergee]

*This hilariously bombastic chauvinism is the funniest comment have seen on CAF, but sadly I suspect you actually meant it seriously. I’m having trouble thinking of even one country which would not have been able to stand on its feet without help from the USA. I can certainly think of several for which the USA’s “help” made it much more difficult for them to stand on their feet.

Okay, let’s think back to the 40s. Normandy, the Bulge, Berlin., Poland, France, England. Where would any of the European nations be today if the US had not pushed Hitler and nazism off the map, at least for a while.*
You really crack me up. Yes, all those poor little countries fighting Hitler would have been unable to stand on their feet except that the good old USA single-handedly defeated Nazism.

Name one country where the Citizens of the US have not given their life’s blood to help other nations. The Phillipines?, Iwo Jima? Bosnia?
I can instantly think of scores of them, but don’t move the goalposts. You said *"We have helped every nation on this Earth to stand on its feet. " *This is nonsense. Your three examples are even more ludicrous.
Iwo Jima is a tiny island, not a country. It is part of greater Micronesia which the USA militarily occupied for decades and used as a testing ground for nuclear weapons, making large areas of it uninhabitable. “help”? doubtful. “Couldn’t stand it its feet without US help”? Definitely false.
Phillippines - They won their independence from Spain in the late 19th century, only to have the USA invade and colonise them for 50 years, trying to Americanise them as much as possible and introducing and increasing many vices like drug abuse, prostiution etc. All whilst claiming that they were “civilising” and “Christianising” a country which had been devoutly Catholic for 400 years.

Bosnia - again they tried to assert their independnce in 1918 but instead the USA and the other Great Powers forced them to be incorporated in the totally invented country of Yugoslavia, which they intended as a large state to finally counter and destroy the power of what had been the last remaining Catholic power, the Austrian Empire.

*Actually an ancient Chinese proverb which has been in English for centuries.Father Corapi didn’t claim he owned the quote. *.

No, you did. Falsely.

 

[Gift_from_God]

I fully support the DREAM ACT. Did you know Reagan gave blanket amnesty to illegal immigrants? I know so many of you love Reagan so much, so surely you’d defend him on that, right?

 

[etspiri2sanctus]

That is an absurd distortion. Neither the pope, nor the bishops, nor I, nor as I understand it the proposed legislation, has proposed anything like “no boundaries anywhere anytime”.

So the border between the US and Mexico is now fully protected because you say so??

 

[etspiri2sanctus]

That is an absurd distortion. Neither the pope, nor the bishops, nor I, nor as I understand it the proposed legislation, has proposed anything like “no boundaries anywhere anytime”.

I fully support the DREAM ACT. Did you know Reagan gave blanket amnesty to illegal immigrants? I know so many of you love Reagan so much, so surely you’d defend him on that, right?

Wrong! I liked a lot of what Reagan did. I DID NOT like his amnesty for illegals. That is where all this mess started. He goofed. I don’t glorify the leader of ANY party. I watch what they are doing and vote accordingly.

 

[etspiri2sanctus]

No, you did. Falsely.

I did not lie. I made a mistake. Now take me in your loving arms and forgive me. What about my other questions. Just like a liberal to zero in on an honest mistake to corrupt the focus of what was said.

 

[etspiri2sanctus]

No, you did. Falsely.

If I understand it correctly, the DREAM Act deals with children who were brought here and not the parents who were the ones who broke the law. Many of these children barely speak spanish and have never known another country/culture other than the USA. It would seem kind of cruel to punish them for the sins of their parents by deporting them to a country they’ve never really known…

Punish them, or help them understand rules are not made to be broken? The immigration laws were established to protect US Citizens. The laws were ignored, not only by this administration, but by several decades of POTUSs. Unfortunately, we of the US just lolly gagged along thinking the government would continually protect us. Boy, were we wrong!

 

[etspiri2sanctus]

No, you did. Falsely.

Perhaps you should study some geography. Iwo Jima belonged to Japan. France, Italy, Africa are not itty bitty countries. Our troops fought and shed blood in all of those countries and more. Please do not minimize what our troops did during WWII. If it hadn’t been for our military, you probably wouldn’t be wrting on this thread today, or perhaps your parents would have ceased to exist.

The thanks we get for saving quite a few necks, not single handedly is true, is usually disdain and words from ungrateful people. Politics causes many ills, but you can’t prove to me, our guys and gals haven’t cleaned up after many a politician caused a war.

 

[Petergee]

So the border between the US and Mexico is now fully protected because you say so??

That is a non-sequitur. And “protected” from what?

 

[Petergee]

I liked a lot of what Reagan did. I DID NOT like his amnesty for illegals.

There are no such people as “illegals”.

 

[Petergee]

I did not lie. I made a mistake. Now take me in your loving arms and forgive me.

I never said you lied. Sure I forgive tyou for your mistake, I make them all the time.

What about my other questions.

I answered them all, but because of that weird thing you did with the quote function when you madfe the previous post, all my answers are in the quote box.

Just like a liberal to zero in on an honest mistake to corrupt the focus of what was said.

Well I could say just like a conservative to jump to conclusions and throw out wild accusations without bothering to properly read what was said.

 

[Petergee]

Perhaps you should study some geography. Iwo Jima belonged to Japan.

Perhaps you should study some history. Iwo Jima has never belonged to Japan. It was part of a League of Nations Trust Territory administered by Japan from 1922 to 1939. And whoever it belonged to has nothing to do with my points that it is not a country and that it didn’t need the USA’s help in order to stand on its feet.

France, Italy, Africa are not itty bitty countries. Our troops fought and shed blood in all of those countries and more.

Africa is not a country. Neither France nor Italy nor any of the 50 countries in Africa required the USA’s help in order to stand on its feet, as you falsely claimed ALL 200+ countries in the world did.

Please do not minimize what our troops did during WWII.

I don’t minimise it, I’m telling the truth. You are trying to create a myth out of it.

but If it hadn’t been for our military, you probably wouldn’t be wrting on this thread today, or perhaps your parents would have ceased to exist.

Nonsense. And if you’re going to bring my parents into it, actually probably thousands of US military men owe their lives to my father’s actions during WW2.

The thanks we get for saving quite a few necks, not single handedly is true, is usually disdain and words from ungrateful people.

I and millions of other non-USAns are extremely grateful and perfectly willing to publicly thak the US and its military for their past assistance. What we are disdainful of and find repulsive is the attitude you have displayed so fulsomely here, the claim that the USA “saved our necks” and the even more absurd claim that because of this, all foreigners must in perpetuity be barred from any criticism of the USA and any of its actions, policies and culture, and that if something is different in the USA to the situation elselwhere, then that proves ipso facto that the USA has the right policy and everybody else is wrong.

 

[Tigg]

I, for one, am grateful this progressive legislation did not pass. As we know from the 1986 Reagan amnesty, it didn’t work then, and this purely political ploy would not have worked now, except to ensure that history would repeat itself and our borders would become even more porous and create even more injustice for America’s poor.

 

[Elizabeth502]

I, too, am relieved and grateful. As a stand-alone measure, it was ill-conceived and political pandering. It’s going to take far more thought and political courage to craft prudential and comprehensive immigration reform, of which this was not. In fact, if anything, I believe that this will put more pressure on the incoming congress to look at the entire issue – legal and illegal – and to re-examine some immigration assumptions (and goals) in restructuring the system to meet mutual economic needs among countries, relative to enormous and imbalanced impact upon particular states.

 

[NewEnglandPriest]

Punish them, or help them understand rules are not made to be broken?

So you’re going to punish a child whose parents broke the law? That doesn’t sound like justice to me. Many of these kids don’t know anything outside of the USA. It doesn’t make a lot of sense to return them to a country they’ve never really known.

The immigration laws were established to protect US Citizens. The laws were ignored, not only by this administration, but by several decades of POTUSs. Unfortunately, we of the US just lolly gagged along thinking the government would continually protect us. Boy, were we wrong!

I don’t think anyone is saying there should be open borders. But as has been pointed out many times on this board and in many news articles, our nation’s immigration laws make little sense. Our student and worker visa system is absurd. A comprehensive overhall is needed, and this bill was one proposal towards that overarching goal.

 

[GraceSofia]

So you’re going to punish a child whose parents broke the law? That doesn’t sound like justice to me. Many of these kids don’t know anything outside of the USA. It doesn’t make a lot of sense to return them to a country they’ve never really known.

No, the child is being “punished,” ie suffering the consequences, because of his parents’ illegal actions.

 

[Petergee]

I, for one, am grateful this progressive legislation did not pass.

If you think that it’s progressive, why are you against it?

 

[AdvanceAlways]

There are no such people as “illegals”.

Yes there are. Quite frankly I’m pretty disgusted that an Australian is trying to lecture the United States about what it should be doing. If you don’t like how America tries to spread its influence and business, then stay out of ours.

The fact that you cited the DailyKos, a leftist blog run by a hateful atheist, is even more laughable.

Jesus did not preach government intervention. State run health care is a joke, an absolute joke which removes human dignity and subsidiarity. It’s a national disgrace that my country has enacted such inhumane anti-Christian policies.

As for the DREAM Act, it is amnesty for illegals. Yes, people can be illegal. They crossed into our border illegally, hence their being in my country is illegal and they need to be deported regardless of age, or any other factor. They are ruining our economy and commit heinous acts of violence and then demand amnesty. They want their flag raised at the expense of ours, and thankfully our Senate rejected this criminal measure.