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josie_L
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This world is seriously going to “hell in a handbasket”.
- Status
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pepipop
Guest
I haven’t seen one photo showing Russian soldiers and tanks in Crimea and/or barricading Ukrainian military bases. I did read the Ukrainian military barricaded themselves in, but no photos of tanks or Russian soldiers outside their barracks.
Yes, I do read reports from all media and then decide what’s, what, when more than one country affirms the news that’s reported.
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TaurusRex
Guest
Venice has quite a history (home of Shakespeare’s character: Shamrock (“The Merchant of Venice”));
And together with the “Holy League” the Venetian fleet is credited with saving Europe from being overrun by the Ottoman Empire:
;And I also understand that they held a secret of glass blowing for generations;
So a good name for them could be The Floating Glassblowers.
rex
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josie_L
Guest
No, you’re not, i.e., you’ve pretty much established that you’re not taking into consideration the eye witness accounts of Ukrainian soldiers/officials or journalists/photo journalists (foreign and/or Ukrainian) that have stated unequivocally that Russian tanks and Russian soldiers are in Crimea:
theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/02/ukraine-crisis-russia-crimea-standoff
bbc.com/news/world-europe-26400035
en.ria.ru/world/20140301/187992857/Crimean-Leader-Appeals-to-Putin-for-Help.html
theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/01/crimea-crisis-deepens-as-russia-and-ukraine-ready-forces-live-updates
theguardian.com/world/gallery/2014/mar/04/ukraine-crisis-continues-in-pictures
buzzfeed.com/miriamelder/watch-an-unmarked-soldier-in-crimea-finally-admit-that-he-is (soldier identifies himself as Russian on video)
telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/10668357/Russia-admits-that-it-has-moved-troops-in-Ukraine.html
dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2571309/Putin-watches-war-games-tension-Ukraine-increases.html
mashable.com/2014/03/07/crimea-troops-russian/ (This website has 21 examples of evidence showing that the troops in Crimea are Russian)
breitbart.com/Big-Peace/2014/03/08/Ukraine-Soldiers-Witness-More-Russian-Troops-in-Crimea
dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2573006/Moments-Russian-troops-fired-warning-shots-heads-Ukrainian-soldiers-important-game-football.html
interpretermag.com/ukraine-liveblog-day-13-beatings-in-kharkiv-defections-in-crimea/ (this shows a host of evidence of Russian military presence, soldier shows his Russian passport, buses identified with Russian licences, photos . . . . etc., take your pick)
reuters.com/article/2014/03/14/us-ukraine-crisis-russia-military-idUSBREA2D0G520140314 (Journalist spots Russian warship with troops and trucks landing in Kazachaya Bay near Sevastopol)
I can put more if you like, but I think for now this will do, so go through it if you like and tell me that there isn’t evidence of Russian troops in the Crimea/Ukraine. And please provide me with a list of your sources citing that there is no Russian military presence and/or that Ukrainian military bases aren’t being barricaded.
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pepipop
Guest
I know you think, I’m trying to be stubborn, but I genuinely am not. The only article link I could see tanks was the first link and one other, which photos could have easily been at the black sea naval base. One CNN photo showing Russian tanks and troops and was proven to be 450 km away at military operations, in Russia. Sorry, I’m not trying to be a pain, but I’ve lived through a ‘dirty war’ and the deceit and lies that surround it. The photos are too generic and not in anyway indicating an ‘invasion’ of Crimea or overtaking of their barracks or country.
Have any of the international observers that were in Crimea yesterday - along with numerous journalists, in Crimea, reported the number of troops or tanks?
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TaurusRex
Guest
Personally I got tired of looking about to 2/3s down, but those units in the first link looked like personnel carriers to me Pep …
did see a tank on a train (God knows where (saw no city or street sign)).
However, I did hear of helicopters being sent to Crimea and I did see destroyers off-shore (again, God knows where);
But that street violence scene seems to me to show reason to believe Putin’s claim of neo-Nazis.
rex
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josie_L
Guest
Assuming that you went through all the sources (which I don’t believe you have), I no longer wish to discuss this topic with you.
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pepipop
Guest
No probs.
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pepipop
Guest
Rex, there’s no hard photographic evidence of a Russian ‘invasion’. I’ve experienced the spin and deceit, by the media, of a ‘dirty war’, then 30-40 years later all came to light - but the damage was already done, and it was all over at that point.Personally I got tired of looking about to 2/3s down, but those units in the first link looked like personnel carriers to me Pep …
did see a tank on a train (God knows where (saw no city or street sign)).
However, I did hear of helicopters being sent to Crimea and I did see destroyers off-shore (again, God knows where);
But that street violence scene seems to me to show reason to believe Putin’s claim of neo-Nazis.
rex
As I’ve said, numerous international reporters were in Crimea yesterday, and could easily report (I’m sure with relish) about the 20,000 Russian troops and tanks, to their respective media.
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Miserissima
Guest
This page crashes my browser, but…
dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2581592/Two-die-Ukraine-shootout-tensions-spiral-ahead-tomorrows-contentious-vote-future-rule-Crimea.html
Is there any way to prove that Russians had not taken over Strilkove on the 15th?
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GaryTaylor
Guest
Dmitry Kiselyov, who hosts an influential Sunday evening program on the main state-owned channel, posed in front of a mushroom cloud graphic Sunday night and ranted about how Russia is the only country in the world still capable of turning the United States into “radioactive dust.”
He also suggested that President Obama’s hair is graying because of fears about Russia’s nuclear arsenal.
Kiselyov is known as a firebrand and last year his diatribe about gays also generated headlines in the West.
He’s also essentially the Kremlin’s propaganda chief, the head of a new state-owned media group aimed at improving Russia’s message at home and abroad. It’s important to see his latest comments in that light: propaganda, not necessarily policy.
abcnews.go.com/International/russian-broadcaster-warns-turning-us-radioactive-dust/story?id=22936988
He also suggested that President Obama’s hair is graying because of fears about Russia’s nuclear arsenal.
Kiselyov is known as a firebrand and last year his diatribe about gays also generated headlines in the West.
He’s also essentially the Kremlin’s propaganda chief, the head of a new state-owned media group aimed at improving Russia’s message at home and abroad. It’s important to see his latest comments in that light: propaganda, not necessarily policy.
abcnews.go.com/International/russian-broadcaster-warns-turning-us-radioactive-dust/story?id=22936988
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Miserissima
Guest
Pep,
I feel badly about the depth and breadth of your experience with propaganda. How do you discern what to believe in the media wars nowadays?
Can you link me to any of the international reports from yesterday? I’m having trouble finding any. My Google skills aren’t sharp tonight, I’m afraid. Tue only thing I found was this: kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/journalists-facing-attacks-by-pro-russian-groups-in-crimea-may-find-it-tough-under-kremlin-rule-339646.html
Note that it confirms the barricade is by unknown force, photos snapped are clandestine, but they did some good research on license plates too trace some vehicles.
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GaryTaylor
Guest
I don’t know Dmitry Kiselyov is the official awardee of the propaganda machine.
in.reuters.com/article/2014/03/17/ukraine-crisis-east-putin-idINL6N0ME1WK20140317
in.reuters.com/article/2014/03/17/ukraine-crisis-east-putin-idINL6N0ME1WK20140317
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josie_L
Guest
Although this is disturbing, watch this video of pro-Ukrainians being forced to kneel before a “pro Russian” crowd, they are being beaten as they are being led away.
interpretermag.com/ukraine-liveblog-day-13-beatings-in-kharkiv-defections-in-crimea/
Scroll to the bottom of the page to find the video.
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GaryTaylor
Guest
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pepipop
Guest
Miserissima (what a name
) the problem is that there will definitely be terrorist groups on the ground now, either pro-Russian or Ukrainian. I feel deeply, for all those concerned in the Ukraine and hope this gets nipped in the bud, quickly. The IRA, UVF and UDA were not affiliated with either the Irish or British governments but caused most of the trouble in NI.The pro-Russian and Ukrainian groups, most likely, would have emerged anyhow (or were always there), after the Ukrainian government was overthrown and an ‘anti-Russian’ government installed. Personally, I think they should move the democratic election to early April, if possible, so as to get this sorted as quickly as possible.
Putin will not want any ‘head-the-balls’ shooting off, or causing problems, in the pro-Russian groups, as that’s when the trouble could really begin.
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Miserissima
Guest
For once, you and I see eye to eye.Miserissima (what a name
The pro-Russian and Ukrainian groups, most likely, would have emerged anyhow (or were always there), after the Ukrainian government was overthrown and an ‘anti-Russian’ government installed. Personally, I think they should move the democratic election to early April, if possible, so as to get this sorted as quickly as possible.
Putin will not want any ‘head-the-balls’ shooting off, or causing problems, in the pro-Russian groups, as that’s when the trouble could really begin.
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pepipop
Guest
Haha, amazing.For once, you and I see eye to eye.
I am not pro-Putin or anti West, I don’t like unfairness. The way this conflict was orchestrated was ‘poking Putin with a big stick’, by Western intervention in a country, on his borders. Very few countries would have sat down and ‘sucked it up’. I am not overly ‘comfortable’ with Putin’s move in Crimea - however, ‘dirty wars’ generate ‘dirty tactics’. However in saying that, IMO Crimea and Russia most likely had this thought out months, if not years ago, waiting and ready to move when the time was right. Nearly 97% to go with Russia, says it all.
He did not cause any deaths, and has made HIS point. Whether or not Crimea can legitimately join Russia, we can only wait and see. Putin is a tactician and ‘so far’, I have not seen him to be a tyrant - however that is my personal opinion.
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Ridgerunner
Guest
France??? Nonsense! Morte Alla Francia Italia Anela! (M.A.F.I.A. in short)
My Italian great grandfather came from “The Empire”, i.e. the Austro-Hungarian Empire, part of which was a chunk of Alpine Italy. If anybody gets Venice, it should be Austria. And, by the way, what is Hungary doing being a separate country?
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Ridgerunner
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Of COURSE it has been planned for years.Haha, amazing.
I am not pro-Putin or anti West, I don’t like unfairness. The way this conflict was orchestrated was ‘poking Putin with a big stick’, by Western intervention in a country, on his borders. Very few countries would have sat down and ‘sucked it up’. I am not overly ‘comfortable’ with Putin’s move in Crimea - however, ‘dirty wars’ generate ‘dirty tactics’. However in saying that, IMO Crimea and Russia most likely had this thought out months, if not years ago, waiting and ready to move when the time was right. Nearly 97% to go with Russia, says it all.
He did not cause any deaths, and has made HIS point. Whether or not Crimea can legitimately join Russia, we can only wait and see. Putin is a tactician and ‘so far’, I have not seen him to be a tyrant - however that is my personal opinion.
The Crimea is a done deal, and the only remaining question is whether the Russian empire will go all the way to the border of Poland or stop short somewhere east of Kiev.
Poland might as well move into western Ukraine and grab Lithuania while the getting is good. After all, since old empires are being revived, they might as well reconstitute Jagiello’s kingdom.
And come to think of it, since more Irish live in the U.S. than in Ireland, it’s undoubtedly time to make Ireland the 51st state. Well, and there are a lot of celts in Nova Scotia.
Scotland too.- Status