Ukraine (cont.)

[AnastasiaRomano]

mobile.nytimes.com/2014/04/18/world/europe/russia-ukraine.html?hpw&rref=world&_r=0&referrer=

MOSCOW — President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia emphasized on Thursday that the upper chamber of Parliament had authorized him to use military force if necessary in eastern Ukraine, and he stressed Russia’s historical claim to the territory in language not often used before, signaling a new and more aggressive policy.

Mr. Putin repeatedly referred to eastern Ukraine as “New Russia” — as the area north of the Black Sea was known after it was conquered by the Russian Empire in the late 1700s. He said only “God knows” why it became part of Ukraine in 1920.

Speaking in a televised question-and-answer show, Mr. Putin also admitted for the first time that Russian armed forces had been deployed in Crimea, the disputed peninsula Russia annexed last month immediately after a large majority of the population voted in a referendum to secede from Ukraine. But he dismissed suggestions that Russian troops were behind the unrest in eastern Ukraine.

 

[Vouthon]

usatoday.com/story/news/world/2014/04/17/jews-ordered-to-register-in-east-ukraine/7816951/

Jews ordered to register in east Ukraine

Jews in the eastern Ukrainian city of Donetsk where pro-Russian militants have taken over government buildings were told they have to “register” with the Ukrainians who are trying to make the city become part of Russia, according to Israeli media.

Jews emerging from a synagogue say they were handed leaflets that ordered the city’s Jews to provide a list of property they own and pay a registration fee “or else have their citizenship revoked, face deportation and see their assets confiscated,” reported Ynet News, Israel’s largest news website.

Donetsk is the site of an “anti-terrorist” operation by the Ukraine government, which has moved military columns into the region to force out militants who are demanding a referendum be held on joining Russia.

The leaflets bore the name of Denis Pushilin, who identified himself as chairman of “Donetsk’s temporary government,” and were distributed near the Donetsk synagogue and other areas, according to the report.

Pushilin acknowledged that flyers were distributed under his organization’s name in Donetsk, but denied any connection to them, Ynet reported in Hebrew.

Emanuel Shechter, in Israel, told Ynet his friends in Donetsk sent him a copy of the leaflet through social media.

“They told me that masked men were waiting for Jewish people after the Passover eve prayer, handed them the flyer and told them to obey its instructions,” he said.

The leaflet begins, “Dear Ukraine citizens of Jewish nationality,” and states that all people of Jewish descent over 16 years old must report to the Commissioner for Nationalities in the Donetsk Regional Administration building and “register.”

It says the reason is because the leaders of the Jewish community of Ukraine supported Bendery Junta, a reference to Stepan Bandera, the leader of the Ukrainian nationalist movement that fought for Ukrainian independence at the end of World War II, “and oppose the pro-Slavic People’s Republic of Donetsk,” a name adopted by the militant leadership.

The leaflet then described which documents Jews should provide: “ID and passport are required to register your Jewish religion, religious documents of family members, as well as documents establishing the rights to all real estate property that belongs to you, including vehicles.”

Consequences for non-compliance will result in citizenship being revoked “and you will be forced outside the country with a confiscation of property.” A registration fee of $50 would be required, it said.

Olga Reznikova, 32, a Jewish resident of Donetsk, told Ynet she never experienced anti-Semitism in the city until she saw this leaflet.

“We don’t know if these notifications were distributed by pro-Russian activists or someone else, but it’s serious that it exists,” she said. “The text reminds of the fascists in 1941,” she said referring to the Nazis who occupied Ukraine during World War II.

Michael Salberg, director of the international affairs at the New York City-based Anti-Defamation League, said it’s unclear if the leaflets were issued by the pro-Russian leadership or a splinter group operating within the pro-Russian camp.

But the Russian side has used the specter of anti-Semitism in a cynical manner since anti-government protests began in Kiev that resulted in the ousting of Ukraine’s pro-Russian former president Viktor Yanukovych. Russia and its allies in Ukraine issued multiple stories about the the threat posed to Jews by Ukraine’s new pro-Western government in Kiev, Salberg said.

Those stories were based in part on ultra-nationalists who joined the Maidan protests, and the inclusion of the ultra-nationalist Svoboda party in Ukraine’s new interim government. But the threat turned out to be false, he said.

Svoboda’s leadership needs to be monitored, but so far it has refrained from anti-Semitic statements since joining the government, he said. And the prevalence of anti-Semitic acts has not changed since before the Maidan protests, according to the ADL and the Ukrainian Helsinki Human Rights Union, which monitors human rights in Ukraine.

Distributing such leaflets is a recruitment tool to appeal to the xenophobic fears of the majority, to enlist them to your cause and focus on a common enemy, the Jews," Salberg said.

And by targeting Donetsk’s Jews, they also send a message to all the region’s residents, Salberg said.

“The message is a message to all the people that is we’re going to exert our power over you,” he said. “Jews are the default scapegoat throughout history for despots to send a message to the general public: Don’t step out of line.”

 

[Vouthon]

Tim Stanley in the Telegraph newspaper in Britain comments on this development:

blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/timstanley/100268138/ukraine-russian-separatists-are-asking-jews-to-register-or-be-deported/

**Ukraine: Russian separatists are asking Jews to ‘register’ or be deported **

A shocking story coming out of Ukraine: pro-Russian separatists in the eastern part of the country are asking Jewish citizens to register their identity or face deportation.

According to Haaretz, a notice to that effect was pasted up near a synagogue in Donetsk – a city being claimed by ethnic Russians. The notice ordered all Jews over the age of 16 to register with the self-proclaimed government and to pay a registration fee. It asks them to provide:

ID and passport … to register your Jewish religion, religious documents of family members, as well as documents establishing the rights to all real estate property that belongs to you, including vehicles.

Failure to comply will result in deportation and confiscation of property. The notice claims that this action is necessitated by Jewish support for the “nationalist junta” in Kiev. The chairman of the temporary Russian government of Donetsk (characterised by hostility to the West and hankering for Sovietism) acknowledged that notice exists but denies responsibility.

What does this tell us? Whoever is responsible for the notice, it indicates that the situation in Ukraine is descending into violent anarchy exploited by extremists. Ever since the crisis began, the Russians have claimed that the Ukrainian nationalist movement is riddled with neo-Nazi anti-Semites – and they certainly do have a presence. But if this notice comes from the pro-Russian side then it’s evidence that they, too, contain elements of anti-Semitism. And, if the situation is allowed to descend ever further into chaos, Jews could end up becoming targets of violence. Which is obviously a terrifying thought.

Consider how this conflict has evolved. It began as a fight over membership of the EU. Then it became about the right of Crimeans to self-determination. Then it became an effort to bring ethnic Russians back into the Russian fold. If this story about anti-Semitic edicts proves true then it could change the narrative of the conflict yet again: the Russian separatism becomes a call not for self-determination but outright bigotry informed by a desire for racial purity and Orthodox chauvinism. If so, it loses whatever political legitimacy it may have claimed and Vladimir Putin cannot possibly support it without endorsing its frightening agenda. We could be entering a new, yet more dangerous part of this crisis.

 

[josie_L]

mobile.nytimes.com/2014/04/18/world/europe/russia-ukraine.html?hpw&rref=world&_r=0&referrer=

No, he’ll only admit it once he has Eastern Ukraine, and only so he can gloat.

 

[Vouthon]

I will remind everyone that Pavel Gubarev, who on March 3rd declared himself “People’s Governor” of Donetsk after pro-Russian separatists seized the regional assembly, has a history of Neo-Nazism. He was since arrested by the Ukranian authorities in Kiev:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pavel_Gubarev

According to an unnamed acquaintance, Gubarev is an advocate of Pan-Slavism.[3] Gubarev was a member of the neo-Nazi Russian National Unity paramilitary group.[6][7][8][9].

Since the beginning of the 2014 Crimean crisis, Gubarev led pro-Russian protesters who blockaded and occupied the Donetsk Regional State Administration building.

During a press-conference with journalists on March 6, 2014 his main goal as the self-proclaimed governor was to declare a referendum on the territorial status of Donetsk Oblast; non-recognition of the new Ukrainian government; and non-recognition of Donetsk governor Serhiy Taruta.[10]

**On March 6, 2014, Gubarev was arrested by the Security Service of Ukraine.[11] Following his arrest, Gubarev was reportedly taken to Kiev for detention.[12]

On March 16, a crowd of protesters stormed government buildings in Donetsk demanding Gubarev’s release**

Whoever produced this leaflet, whether the separatists or not, it is truly despicable.

 

[pepipop]

Russian provocateurs attacked a Ukrainian military base and some got killed and injured in the process. That’s what provocations are for. Dangerous from Ukraine’s standpoint to resist Russian provocations, but hard to blame them for it.

Yes and the Ukraine’s government’s restraint in December to February was well noted, with Obama warning the government not to be violent towards protesters - mind you those protesters were on the same side as the current government and needless to say these one’s aren’t. One rule for one group and another rule for the other.

But needless to say I’m not surprised, as I’ve seen it all before.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Yes and the Ukraine’s government’s restraint in December to February was well noted, with Obama warning the government not to be violent towards protesters - mind you those protesters were on the same side as the current government and needless to say these one’s aren’t. One rule for one group and another rule for the other.

But needless to say I’m not surprised, as I’ve seen it all before.

Wrong button. It would be difficult for many to imagine how little regard I have for anything Obama thinks or says.

And Russia has still annexed Crimea.

 

[josie_L]

I see that happening too, but not on such a scale as Russian media would have us believe.

Those who align themselves will be doing so to protect their economic interests, not because of some souped up ideology.

But the Russian speaking citizens of Donetsk do not have a majority to secede unless they get help from Russia (which they are):

While the majority of people in central and western Ukraine speak Ukrainian, a plurality of the residents of Donetsk are Russian-speaking Ukrainians and ethnic Russians. According to 2001 population census,[28] Ukrainians are 56.9% of Donetsk oblast and Russians are 38.2%. The Russian language is dominant in Donbas: even the ethnic Ukrainians consider Russian as their first language.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donetsk

 

[josie_L]

I will remind everyone that Pavel Gubarev, who on March 3rd declared himself “People’s Governor” of Donetsk after pro-Russian separatists seized the regional assembly, has a history of Neo-Nazism. He was since arrested by the Ukranian authorities in Kiev:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pavel_Gubarev

Whoever produced this leaflet, whether the separatists or not, it is truly despicable.

I was going to mention to you that the “people’s governor” Pavel Gubarev had a history of Neo-Nazism (I posted this awhile back) in answer to your previous post of anti-Semitism, but then you posted this.

I found this information to be rather enlightening (and ironic):

The Donetsk People’s Republic (Russian: Донецкая народная республика, Donetskaya narodnaya respublika) is the name for a breakaway region declared on 7 April 2014, by around 100 activists[1][nb 1] currently occupying the Regional Administration Building in Donetsk, Ukraine.[2] The People’s Republic has not been recognized by any other state. The movement’s leader is the self-declared People’s Governor Pavel Gubarev, a former member of the neo-Nazi Russian National Unity paramilitary group who is currently arrested on charges of separatism.[3][4]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donetsk_People’s_Republic

 

[pepipop]

I will remind everyone that Pavel Gubarev, who on March 3rd declared himself “People’s Governor” of Donetsk after pro-Russian separatists seized the regional assembly, has a history of Neo-Nazism. He was since arrested by the Ukranian authorities in Kiev:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pavel_Gubarev

Whoever produced this leaflet, whether the separatists or not, it is truly despicable.

I wonder who DID send them?

myemail.constantcontact.com/Ukraine-Update–22—Flyer-calls-for-Donetsk-Jews-to–register-.html?soid=1101481238099&aid=DbfJKyLhTfo

Fake Flyer Calls for Donetsk Jews to 'Register’

*A leaflet distributed in Donetsk, Ukraine, calls for all Jewish people over 16 years-old to register as Jews.
The flyers were signed in the name of Denis Pushilin, the leader of Donetsk’s pro-Russian separatists, who led the takeover of several government buildings and claimed the city as the Donetsk Republic.

NCSJ has contacted the Donetsk Jewish community leaders, who called the flyers a provocation. They said that all authorities have denied any connection to the flyers, and that Pushilin has denied authorship.

Several members of the community went to the Nationalities Commissioner, who repudiated the flyer, and said that the leaflets were distributed to cause unrest among the Jewish population.

Similar leaflets were distributed targeting international students at the local university.*

 

[Ridgerunner]

I wonder who DID send them?

myemail.constantcontact.com/Ukraine-Update–22—Flyer-calls-for-Donetsk-Jews-to–register-.html?soid=1101481238099&aid=DbfJKyLhTfo

Fake Flyer Calls for Donetsk Jews to 'Register’

*A leaflet distributed in Donetsk, Ukraine, calls for all Jewish people over 16 years-old to register as Jews.
The flyers were signed in the name of Denis Pushilin, the leader of Donetsk’s pro-Russian separatists, who led the takeover of several government buildings and claimed the city as the Donetsk Republic.

NCSJ has contacted the Donetsk Jewish community leaders, who called the flyers a provocation. *They said that all authorities have denied any connection to the flyers, and that Pushilin has denied authorship.

Several members of the community went to the Nationalities Commissioner, who repudiated the flyer, and said that the leaflets were distributed to cause unrest among the Jewish population.

Similar leaflets were distributed targeting international students at the local university.

Hard to know who the most immediate distributor was. But inasmuch as Putin is in league with ultra-nationalist and anti-Semitic rightist groups all over eastern Europe, it is most likely the leaflets were authored in Moscow, if not printed there as well.

 

[AnastasiaRomano]

“Photos link masked men in East Ukraine to Russia”

nytimes.com/2014/04/21/world/europe/photos-link-masked-men-in-east-ukraine-to-russia.html?hp&_r=1

More direct evidence of a Russian hand in eastern Ukraine is contained in a dossier of photographs provided by Ukraine to the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe, a Vienna-based organization now monitoring the situation in Donetsk and other parts of the country. It features pictures taken in eastern Ukraine of unidentified gunmen and an earlier photograph of what looks like the same men appearing in a group shot of a Russian military unit in Russia.

One set of photographs shows what appears to be the same gunman in pictures taken in the Crimean annexation and more recently in Slovyansk. Another features a portly bearded man photographed in Slovyansk on April 14, wearing a camouflage uniform without insignia, but six years earlier, had been photographed during Russia’s invasion of Georgia with a Russian special forces patch on his left arm.

 

[grotto]

Pepipop - are there more than “one” of you posting under your pen name? It seems your style of messaging has changed quite a bit. I really don’t expect a straight answer to this
question and just need to comment on it. The before and after posts of the Ukraine takeover appears to have undergone a different style of Pepipop composition.

 

[PHSshamrock]

It is hard to know Russia’s intention in this. Their actions are frightening, in that they are very similar to Hitler’s before WWII. He claimed he only wanted one area, and then starting taking over many. Then again, maybe Russia does only want to annex Crimea. Who knows? However, it is very frightening that the Catholic priests in the area have had to flee or be abducted. That might be more the result of the turmoil of the war torn area, I don’t know.

 

[tomarin]

It is hard to know Russia’s intention in this. Their actions are frightening, in that they are very similar to Hitler’s before WWII. He claimed he only wanted one area, and then starting taking over many. Then again, maybe Russia does only want to annex Crimea. Who knows? However, it is very frightening that the Catholic priests in the area have had to flee or be abducted. That might be more the result of the turmoil of the war torn area, I don’t know.

I’d venture they want to have buffer states between themselves and the West, to protect themselves and to buttress their regional power. I offer this as a possible explanation, not a justification by the way.

 

[Ridgerunner]

I’d venture they want to have buffer states between themselves and the West, to protect themselves and to buttress their regional power. I offer this as a possible explanation, not a justification by the way.

With all due respect, I doubt protection has anything to do with it. After all, most countries don’t have buffer states between them and potential enemies. And besides, who could possibly imagine a militarily aggressive EU?

 

[GEddie]

With all due respect, I doubt protection has anything to do with it. After all, most countries don’t have buffer states between them and potential enemies. And besides, who could possibly imagine a militarily aggressive EU?

We can’t ; but we are too far away and historically innocent.

No one could have imagined a militarily aggressive Germany before 1870, either.

The countries that now lead the EU, France and Germany, have roughly 400 years of aggression between them, including three attacks on Russia.

ICXC NIKA

 

[GEddie]

We also don’t have buffer states; but we don’t need them; we have the world’s widest oceans between us and “the enemy”, whoever that may end up being.

ICXC NIKA

 

[EmperorNapoleon]

We can’t ; but we are too far away and historically innocent.

No one could have imagined a militarily aggressive Germany before 1870, either.

The countries that now lead the EU, France and Germany, have roughly 400 years of aggression between them, including three attacks on Russia.

ICXC NIKA

Some of the same warning signs which preceded WWI can be found in these developments. It was more of a war of treaty obligations, with each side antagonizing the other in the years before, than anything else and so too would any war with Russia involving the EU or NATO. The Swedes are convinced this business in Ukraine is a prelude to an invasion of the Baltic States. I don’t know if Putin is crazy enough to risk a war with the EU or NATO over them though.

 

[Ridgerunner]

We can’t ; but we are too far away and historically innocent.

No one could have imagined a militarily aggressive Germany before 1870, either.

The countries that now lead the EU, France and Germany, have roughly 400 years of aggression between them, including three attacks on Russia.

ICXC NIKA

And Russia has three very recent attacks on other states, annexing their territory. So who actually has the best reason to be concerned about “buffers”? Certainly not Russia.