Ukraine (cont.)

  • Thread starter Thread starter josie_L
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
You know, this is just plain ridiculous, posting Kremlin propaganda and lies and Conspiracy News on a Catholic news Forum! …
Many in Ukraine, not just in the Svoboda party, call Stepan Bandera a hero. But in May 1941 at a meeting in Krakow the leadership of Bandera’s OUN faction adopted the program which contained an order for the removal of Poles, Jews, and Russians via deportation from Ukraine. The Simon Wiesnthal Center expressed their “deepest revulsion at the recent honor awarded to Stepan Bandera, who collaborated with the Nazis in the early stages of World War II, and whose followers were linked to the murders of thousands of Jews and others."
wiesenthal.com/site/apps/nlnet/content2.aspx?c=lsKWLbPJLnF&b=4441467&ct=7922775#.U23AQZVOW1s
 
You know, this is just plain ridiculous, posting Kremlin propaganda and lies and Conspiracy News on a Catholic news Forum! One of your links, the second, claims Yulia Tymoshenko is a neo-Nazi and the first link relies on a doctored Tymoshenko tape conversation. Unbelievable, but why should I be surprised when the link you are relying on is a CONSPIRACY SITE run by someone called Dr. Joseph Farrell called gizadeathstar as evidence for your claims on Ukraine…
Here is a BBC video on the Neo-Nazi threat in Ukraine.
@ 3:05 A Ukrainian nationalist says: Those who like Russia, let them move to Russia.
@4:10-4:30 A Ukrainian nationalist claims that Russians and Jews control the Ukrainian economy.
youtube.com/watch?v=5SBo0akeDMY
According to this BBC production, Svoboda controls four ministries in the Ukrainian government, including the ministry of defense.
 
The Daily Fail, keeps on failing…to stir up the ‘Cold War’ propaganda.

dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2624817/How-Putins-walking-Six-years-ago-EDWARD-LUCAS-branded-scaremonger-warning-danger-posed-West-today-threats-alarming-ever.html#comments

How Putin’s walking all over us: Six years ago EDWARD LUCAS was branded a scaremonger for warning of the danger posed to the West, but today the threat’s more alarming than ever

Read more: dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2624817/How-Putins-walking-Six-years-ago-EDWARD-LUCAS-branded-scaremonger-warning-danger-posed-West-today-threats-alarming-ever.html#ixzz31IwUCuPH
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
As a naked display of awesome military firepower, its message could not have been clearer.
Yesterday, Russia marked Victory Day — the anniversary of its defeat of Nazi Germany — in Moscow with a parade overseen by President Putin, who watched as tanks, assault helicopters and line upon line of troops reinforced his bellicose behaviour of recent weeks.
Meanwhile, thousands of miles away, the Royal Navy destroyer HMS Dragon was dispatched from Portsmouth to shadow a group of seven Russian ships — including a giant


Some COMMENTS to the 'article’

*david2001, romford, United Kingdom, moments ago

At least he stands up for his country, you may not admire hs methods and I don,t, but you cannot fault him for believing in Russia. As for walking all over us, the USA and our Govts allowed him to, the Russians admire and respect toughness always have done. You stand up to Russia and show that you mean it, and you wil get it. Reagan and Thatcher had it from Russia, but not this lot and never will. PS. DM.Stop flogging various peoples books please.

Abolishthemonarchy, London, United Kingdom, moments ago
I wouldn’t trust this lying rag.

Fed Up, Leeds, moments ago
This was all started by a coup…stop this propaganda now ! so last century DM. The public are more informed now. Not the naïve anymore. We know how our history has been one big conspiracy.The truth is very enlightening.

Ericjimbob, Tunbridge Wells, UK, 7 minutes ago
Don’t think your readership believe the patronising rubbish that got us into Iraq and Afghanistan any more DM?
*
 
It’s not East-West mudslinging, it’s distrust of a KGB colonel who has in no way proven that he’s in any way different from what it ever took to be a KGB colonel. It might be a good idea to really study its history, methodology and personalities.

And who profits from Putin’s seizure of Crimea? Not some right wingers in Kiev, that’s for sure.
That assumes they expected it to happen as a result. Clearly they didn’t expect Crimea to secede. Moreover, as hyper-nationalists, they benefit from antagonism with Russia and anything that gives an excuse for emergency measures as these expand their power and authority even further.
Putin and his supporters profit, just as they would be the ones to profit if they seized eastern and southern Ukraine. Oligarchic kleptocracy does not necessary stop at the Russian border.
Or at the IMF.
This really isn’t a “right-left-middle” struggle either. Putin supports fascist extremist groups in Europe. foreignaffairs.com/articles/141067/mitchell-a-orenstein/putins-western-allies
And the West is supporting fascist extremists in Kiev’s new regime - a regime that has massacred its own people and citizens.
Possibly his support of neo-fascist groups is intended to destabilize.
Are you saying States will sometimes tolerate and support neo-fascists and extremists in order to destabilize a country? Hmm.
Possibly it’s to have a bogeyman to point at,
Tell me your feelings about Putin.
 
From the Washington Post:

washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2014/05/09/russia-said-it-moved-its-troops-away-from-ukraine-satellite-images-seem-to-say-otherwise/

(emphasis mine)

By now, I think it should be clear that Vladimir Putin cannot and should not be trusted to tell the truth. He earnestly proclaimed Russian military forces were not involved in the invasion and annexation of Crimea, only later to admit the exact same thing. Now he and his KGB clique running Russia lie and say they have withdrawn their large military on Ukraine’s border, on top of all the other lies they propagate about Ukraine and Ukrainians.

I don’t think Putin lying should be taken as an aberration in behaviour but it should be taken as something that comes naturally to an unrepentant KGB agent. The KGB didn’t teach bullies like Putin that truth-telling was a virtue; it taught him that lying, deception, and blackmail can all be virtues in the cause of serving the Kremlin. If anybody disagrees, please show me where that organ of state repression the KGB was ever a humanitarian and truthful institution.
Please read the article and the insightful comments following it.

Kiev has deployed its military in an assault against the people of its southeastern coastline city of Mariupol. The map provided by the Washington Post about the alleged location of the US gov’t satellite image clearly shows that Mariupol is in fact even closer to Russia’s border than the alleged Russian forces are to the Ukrainian border.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/files/2014/05/ukraine-RotovForBlogArea-3.jpg

In other words, Ukraine’s Army and newly minted National Guard are closer to Russia’s borders than Russian troops are to Ukraine’s - and the US has even generously provided the proof of this fact.
 
Not a great translation (any German speakers that could please translate it better?) however the gist of it is that the private US security agency, Blackwater has fighters in Ukraine that have been helping the Ukrainian military fight against pro-Russian Ukrainians.

spiegel.de/politik/ausland/ukraine-krise-400-us-soeldner-von-academi-kaempfen-gegen-separatisten-a-968745.html

*400 U.S. mercenaries fight in eastern Ukraine against the separatists. The report by “Bild am Sonntag” refers to intelligence information. The fighters come from the military service Academi, formerly known as Blackwater.

A newspaper report suggests now that the thing perhaps but there might be something: According to “Bild am Sonntag”, the Ukrainian security forces are supported by Academi 400 elite soldiers. They should have led operations against pro-Russian rebel around the city ostukrainische Slowjansk. Accordingly, the Federal Intelligence Service (BND) put the federal government on April 29 such requests. Who had instructed the mercenary, is still unclear.

Private security firms such Academi came especially during the Iraq War in the criticism. In the U.S., several former Blackwater employees in connection with the killing of Iraqi civilians in court. Academi has a million payment ransomed by investigations in the United States.*
 
Not a great translation (any German speakers that could please translate it better?) however the gist of it is that the private US security agency, Blackwater has fighters in Ukraine that have been helping the Ukrainian military fight against pro-Russian Ukrainians.

spiegel.de/politik/ausland/ukraine-krise-400-us-soeldner-von-academi-kaempfen-gegen-separatisten-a-968745.html

400 U.S. mercenaries fight in eastern Ukraine against the separatists. The report by “Bild am Sonntag” refers to intelligence information. The fighters come from the military service Academi, formerly known as Blackwater.

A newspaper report suggests now that the thing perhaps but there might be something: According to “Bild am Sonntag”, the Ukrainian security forces are supported by Academi 400 elite soldiers. They should have led operations against pro-Russian rebel around the city ostukrainische Slowjansk. Accordingly, the Federal Intelligence Service (BND) put the federal government on April 29 such requests. Who had instructed the mercenary, is still unclear.

Private security firms such Academi came especially during the Iraq War in the criticism. In the U.S., several former Blackwater employees in connection with the killing of Iraqi civilians in court. Academi has a million payment ransomed by investigations in the United States.
I have been reluctant to post on this thread because of its volatile nature. But I would like to chime in as a person who has observed history since a child.
We are playing a VERY dangerous game in the Ukraine.
Maybe Americans are so used to seeing corporate media’s view of the world they are blind to what the rest of the world sees. If the EU and the US continues, we will at best, change the economic future for the worst in the western world. Especially if China joins with Russia on their economic future.
At worst, we are headed for another World War.
I’ve been concerned about this since Obama took office and recieved a “Peace Prize” almost automatically. In '08 I thought that was like stamping “unsinkable” on the Titanic. A challenge to God like that, can only lead to the worst of consequences.
I sincerely hope and pray I am wrong.
 
I agree. The Russian speaking people in Eastern Ukraine have been very brave while the illegal Ukrainian government, supported by the fascist Right Sector, has been attacking innocent civilians in this area. I don’t know how long these brave Russian speaking Ukrainians can last as there have been calls from the Right Sector pro-maidan group to exterminate all Jews and all Russian speaking Ukrainians.
gizadeathstar.com/2014/04/ukrainian-leader-tymoshenko-wants-kill-8000000-russians-nukes/
whatdoesitmean.com/index1744.htm
youtube.com/watch?v=C5EXdbzIDEk
:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

Nice try, but no cigar. “Blame the victim” sometimes works as a strategy, but not always.

Let’s see. What portion of Russia have those Ukrainian “fascists” conquered? None.
What portion of other countries have the Russians seized? Crimea, now eastern Ukraine, part of Moldova, part of Georgia.

What country is ruled by an elite cabal of former police state operatives? Russia.
What country resisted rule by an elite cabal of adherents to a police state? Ukraine.

What country supports fascist groups throughout Eastern Europe? Russia.

What government buildings in Russia has Ukraine seized? None.
What government buildings in Ukraine has Russia Seized? A number of them.
 
Here is a BBC video on the Neo-Nazi threat in Ukraine.
@ 3:05 A Ukrainian nationalist says: Those who like Russia, let them move to Russia.
@4:10-4:30 A Ukrainian nationalist claims that Russians and Jews control the Ukrainian economy.
youtube.com/watch?v=5SBo0akeDMY
According to this BBC production, Svoboda controls four ministries in the Ukrainian government, including the ministry of defense.
Anybody can post anything on YouTube, including Russian propagandists. After all, it was they who tried to convince the world (and succeeded with many) that Pope Pius XII was “Hitler’s Pope”.

You can find American groups that say the very same things. But that doesn’t mean the US is anti-Semitic as a nation. Nor does anti-Semitism close to the top in Russia necessarily mean that Russia as a country is anti-Semitic. bbc.com/news/world-europe-26786213

But the proof in all of this is going to be what revanchist Russia does next. The stage is set for Russia to conquer and absorb eastern ukraine, and it will happen. To know who the villain is in the piece, one only needs to see who’s conquering others. Moldova, Georgia, Crimea, Eastern Ukraine. Where will the next Russian aggression be?

The real irony in this situation, and one I suspect will happen, is if Putin seizes Eastern Ukraine before the 25th, insists that eastern Ukrainian votes (phony, of course) be counted. Like the Soviet elections of old, the “pro-Russia” vote will probably be 140% of the total number of people. Alternatively, he will prevent voting in eastern Ukraine and use that as an excuse to claim the Ukrainian government is STILL “illegitimate” as a way to keep gobbling off more of Ukraine. After all, he hasn’t infiltrated all of southern Ukraine yet; something he will definitely do.
 
Please read the article and the insightful comments following it.

Kiev has deployed its military in an assault against the people of its southeastern coastline city of Mariupol. The map provided by the Washington Post about the alleged location of the US gov’t satellite image clearly shows that Mariupol is in fact even closer to Russia’s border than the alleged Russian forces are to the Ukrainian border.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/files/2014/05/ukraine-RotovForBlogArea-3.jpg

In other words, Ukraine’s Army and newly minted National Guard are closer to Russia’s borders than Russian troops are to Ukraine’s - and the US has even generously provided the proof of this fact.
Omigosh! :eek: Ukraine has deployed part of its military in…Ukraine? :eek: Unprecedented in history!

Regular Russian units may well be within only 40 miles (an hour away, perhaps less?) from Ukraine’s border, but its soldiers are already in Ukraine itself; those Russians in Russian uniform without markings. The whole world knows that.
 
Even the Kyiv Post is admitting that the Ukrainian National Guard opened fire on civilians outside a polling place kyivpost.com/content/ukraine-abroad/associated-press-ukraine-guardsmen-open-fire-on-crowd-347327.html
The article doesn’t identify them as civilians or anything other than pro-Russians.

This is a tragedy, the whole event is. One remembers Kent State, when national guardsmen opened fire on students when somehow they thought fighting was about to break out or already had. It’s less difficult to imagine Ukrainian national guard getting trigger-happy when they watch Russia take over part of their country, and has armed men everywhere in it.

These peoples’ blood is on Putin’s hands, and the hands of his supporters.
 
The article doesn’t identify them as civilians or anything other than pro-Russians.

This is a tragedy, the whole event is. One remembers Kent State, when national guardsmen opened fire on students when somehow they thought fighting was about to break out or already had. It’s less difficult to imagine Ukrainian national guard getting trigger-happy when they watch Russia take over part of their country, and has armed men everywhere in it.

These peoples’ blood is on Putin’s hands, and the hands of his supporters.
[/quote]

This astounds me, what has any of this got to do with Putin? A coup d’etat, an overthrown democratically elected government, the right sector element aligned to the new government terrorising pro-Russians in their towns - plenty of video evidence on YouTube.

They then decide to fight back, within their country, Ukraine. So what has Putin got to do with any of it?

It’s like saying ‘Ireland’ had blood on their hands due to the IRA’s actions in NI in the 70’s. Most of the IRA were nationalists from NI, not from Ireland and the Irish government had no allegiance to them.

Terrorist/activist/freedom fighter groups form, in any civil conflict. Mind you not too many government bodies have USA private security ‘fighters’ assisting them. :rolleyes:*
 
Omigosh! :eek: Ukraine has deployed part of its military in…Ukraine? :eek: Unprecedented in history!
To kill their own people. Russian troops are on their borders to protect theirs.

P.S - I think you could have used at least five more emoticons in that sentence.
 
Probably Bush’s fault.
I don’t think so. Both Bush Jr. and Sr. were quite friendly with President Putin. In fact, President Bush and his wife went to Moscow and sat beside President Putin on Red Square during a May Day Parade. Relations were much better between Russia and the USA under President Bush.
The problems came up as the USA failed to keep its promises with regard to the expansion of NATO. NATO is just a big and expensive bureaucracy which saps US tax dollars but doesn’t do much else.
 
Anybody can post anything on YouTube, including Russian propagandists. After all, it was they who tried to convince the world (and succeeded with many) that Pope Pius XII was “Hitler’s Pope”.

You can find American groups that say the very same things. But that doesn’t mean the US is anti-Semitic as a nation. Nor does anti-Semitism close to the top in Russia necessarily mean that Russia as a country is anti-Semitic. bbc.com/news/world-europe-26786213

But the proof in all of this is going to be what revanchist Russia does next. The stage is set for Russia to conquer and absorb eastern ukraine, and it will happen. To know who the villain is in the piece, one only needs to see who’s conquering others. Moldova, Georgia, Crimea, Eastern Ukraine. Where will the next Russian aggression be?

The real irony in this situation, and one I suspect will happen, is if Putin seizes Eastern Ukraine before the 25th, insists that eastern Ukrainian votes (phony, of course) be counted. Like the Soviet elections of old, the “pro-Russia” vote will probably be 140% of the total number of people. Alternatively, he will prevent voting in eastern Ukraine and use that as an excuse to claim the Ukrainian government is STILL “illegitimate” as a way to keep gobbling off more of Ukraine. After all, he hasn’t infiltrated all of southern Ukraine yet; something he will definitely do.
So you think that the BBC is a tool of Russian propaganda? I don’t, and I don’t think many people would agree with your faulty analysis.
 
Even the Kyiv Post is admitting that the Ukrainian National Guard opened fire on civilians outside a polling place kyivpost.com/content/ukraine-abroad/associated-press-ukraine-guardsmen-open-fire-on-crowd-347327.html
Obviously, the ultra-nationalist pro-maidan Ukrainian crowd and the Right Sector Group don’t want people in Eastern Ukraine to vote. According to what I have read, the spokesperson for the USA State Dept. has declared that it is illegal for people in Eastern Ukraine to vote. With their approval of rendition, torture and sexual humiliation of suspects and now declaring that is illegal for people to vote in a democratic referendum, is it any wonder that some people are beginning to doubt that the USA is the champion of human rights, as it claims to be?
 
To kill their own people. Russian troops are on their borders to protect theirs.

P.S - I think you could have used at least five more emoticons in that sentence.
These people (separatists) don’t consider themselves Ukrainian, hence, the hostile takeovers and the subsequent intervention of the army, moreover, the Ukraine has a right to protect those whom the Separatists are harming, i.e., these are not innocent protestors but armed and dangerous men who are kidnapping, torturing and killing people with the approval of Mother Russia. Here’s a list of those people that they have harmed (many of which occurred before the army intervened):

Seven killed
:

May 9 – (Two killed, one wounded) – Two cars with bodies of two adults, a wife and a husband, were found on the outskirts of Luhansk. According to the Luhansk Prosecutor’s Office, they were gunned by Kremlin-backed insurgents because they did not stop their cars on the militant’s request. Killed couple’s 10-year old daughter was found in one of the cars injured and taken to the hospital.

May 8 – (Killed) – The head of Prosvita society branch in Krasny Lyman, Valeriy Salo, was found burnt in his car. Salo was captured on May 7 by the militants of the Donetsk People’s Republic, according to the Luhansk police press service.

May 8 – (One killed) – Pavlo Zhuchenko, a 44-year-old priest of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church of the Moscow Patriarchy, was shot near a block post near the eastern Ukrainian town Druzhivka, according to the Prosecutor General’s Office press service. Editor-in-chief of the local news website Ostov, Serhiy Harmash, reports that the slain priest lived next to the block post and urged Kyiv’s opponents to surrender arms. The law enforcement authorities have started an investigation of the case.

April 28 – (Dead) – In Sloviansk, the body was found at the same site near the river Torets, where the bodies of Horlivka Town Council deputy Volodymyr Rybak and Kyiv Polytechnic Institute student Yuriy Popravko were found earlier. The body has been identified as Yuriy Diadkovsky, a 25-year-old student from Stryi in Lviv Oblast. Diadkovsky had been an active Euromaidan participant since December 3, 2013. According to the Gazeta.ua website, citing Diadkovsky’s brother Oleh, Yuriy went to Donetsk Oblast on April 16 with his friend in order to see what was going on there. His was kidnapped April 17His body was found 11 days later with the signs of torture.

April 22 – (Two killed) – In Sloviansk, the bodies of two men were found near the river Torets with signs of torture, according to Ukraine’s Interior Ministry. One of them has been identified as Volodymyr Rybak, a Horlivka city councilman believed to have been kidnapped on April 17. He was found with a sandbag tied around his body and a slash across his stomach. He is believed to have drowned in the river while unconscious. According to the ministry’s reports, members of the pro-Russian separatist group who seized the city’s security services building were involved in the alleged torture and murder of the two men. The second men has been identified as a 19-year-old Kyiv Polytechnic Institute student Yuriy Popravko. According to Popravko’s mother, Yaroslava Popravko, cited by Liga.net, on April 16 her son visited his girlfriend in Kharkiv. There was no further contact with him after that.

kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/donetsk-peoples-republic-separatists-mark-victory-day-weekend-with-new-round-of-killings-abductions-347225.html
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top