Ukraine (cont.)

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josie_L said:
Yes, the Russian parliament that bastion of all that is good and wholesome (please note the sarcasm), approving the use of force against a government that won’t kowtow to them. The horror!!!

P.S. I pray that government doesn’t bestow it’s “good” intentions elsewhere.
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If only that were the case! LOL!
 
josie_L said:
Yes, the Russian parliament that bastion of all that is good and wholesome (please note the sarcasm), approving the use of force against a government that won’t kowtow to them. The horror!!!

P.S. I pray that government doesn’t bestow it’s “good” intentions elsewhere.
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HansTrappist said:
If only that were the case! LOL!
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Somehow I get the feeling that I have just crossed over into the Twilight Zone.
 
DaveBj said:
I’m saying that words like “fascist” and “neo-Nazi” are loaded terms. You can’t used them to support your position, and then complain when other people use them to oppose you. That’s being inconsistent; to paraphrase your own words, anyone who starts sling words like that around has already lost the argument.

We’re not going to do your homework for you. This story is all over the news today, and Google is your friend.
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Since you mentioned it yourself in one of your posts that you had experience in this area, what exactly did you mean by that?
 
Ridgerunner said:
“Linky or stinky”??? Now there’s an aesthetically unattractive expression!

I assume it means “post a link or be disparaged”. Well, assuming that to be the meaning, here’s one. Of course, at that time, only two helicopters had been shot down.

independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/ukraine-crisis-slavyansk-prorussian-rebels-shoot-down-two-helicopters-as-kiev-forces-launch-military-operation-9314374.html
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So, in other words, your own link disproves your original assertion that:

Putin’s soldiers shoot down a helicopter full of Ukrainian medics, on Ukrainian territory, and you’re okay with it because you think somehow Putin has some “spiritual” superiority going. Chilling. Truly chilling.

I will ignore the childish drama about my “chilling” admiration with Putin’s “spiritual superiority”
 
HansTrappist said:
Comparing Vladimir Putin and Russia to Hitler and Nazi Germany - as has been done on this thread - is uncharitable and will not be tolerated. It’s the kind of tactic I would expect from the State Department, not a Catholic Forum.

And pulling the old ad Hitlerum fallacy is always a sure sign of a losing argument.
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When Hitler invaded France, men, women and children were weeping, crying and sobbing in extreme sorrow, heartache and misery. When Crimea heard that Putin would agree to have them join Russia, there were loud cheers of ecstatic joy, huge celebrations, dancing in the street, flag wavings, singing, and parties welcoming the news all day and all night long.
 
josie_L said:
Since you mentioned it yourself in one of your posts that you had experience in this area, what exactly did you mean by that?
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I have a BA in Russian and an MA in Soviet and East European studies, and for 25 years I was a USSR analyst, first in the USAF and then for NSA.

It’s almost eerie seeing the pro-Soviet arguments of the late 1930s and early 1940s replaying themselves as a sort of Russia-against-Europe scenario.
 
RT has a breaking story of 38 separatists dead in a fire in a building in Odessa. If this story is accurate I believe you’re going to see most of the moderates and fence sitters in the East and South come out in full force.
 
Seamus_L said:
RT has a breaking story of 38 separatists dead in a fire in a building in Odessa. If this story is accurate I believe you’re going to see most of the moderates and fence sitters in the East and South come out in full force.
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38 dead pro-Russian seperatists. Hmmm, I wonder who killed them?
 
Tomdstone said:
When Hitler invaded France, men, women and children were weeping, crying and sobbing in extreme sorrow, heartache and misery. When Crimea heard that Putin would agree to have them join Russia, there were loud cheers of ecstatic joy, huge celebrations, dancing in the street, flag wavings, singing, and parties welcoming the news all day and all night long.
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Wow, the arguments here are really getting comical.
 
HansTrappist said:
So, in other words, your own link disproves your original assertion that:

Putin’s soldiers shoot down a helicopter full of Ukrainian medics, on Ukrainian territory, and you’re okay with it because you think somehow Putin has some “spiritual” superiority going. Chilling. Truly chilling.

I will ignore the childish drama about my “chilling” admiration with Putin’s “spiritual superiority”
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Really?

From the article:

"A third helicopter, believed to be carrying medical staff was hit and one of the crew was wounded as a result, according to Sky News.

Interior Minister Arsen Avakov said the offensive was answered with heavy artillery, with the rebels using grenade and portable anti-aircraft missile launchers to bring down planes."

What part of “medical staff” was hard to understand?

Childish drama? Well, if that’s how you see it, then perhaps you could better explain just what you meant by the spiritual dimension of this? If Putin is your hero, then I find that chilling.
 
Seamus_L said:
RT has a breaking story of 38 separatists dead in a fire in a building in Odessa. If this story is accurate I believe you’re going to see most of the moderates and fence sitters in the East and South come out in full force.
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Although I wish this were not happening, the 38 separatists were basically backed by Russian military might with the intent to take Ukrainian territory and subsume into Russia.
 
DaveBj said:
We’re not going to do your homework for you. This story is all over the news today, and Google is your friend.
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So, in other words, the assertion that Putin had the helicopter shot down is nothing more than a bunch of undocumented propaganda.
 
Ridgerunner said:
Really?

From the article:

"A third helicopter, believed to be carrying medical staff was hit and one of the crew was wounded as a result, according to Sky News.

Interior Minister Arsen Avakov said the offensive was answered with heavy artillery, with the rebels using grenade and portable anti-aircraft missile launchers to bring down planes."

What part of “medical staff” was hard to understand?

Childish drama? Well, if that’s how you see it, then perhaps you could better explain just what you meant by the spiritual dimension of this? If Putin is your hero, then I find that chilling.
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So, in other words, you continue to fail to document your assertion that the Russian military downed the helicopter.

What you mean to say is that you don’t have a clue what really happened.
 
josie_L said:
Although I wish this were not happening, the 38 separatists were basically backed by Russian military might with the intent to take Ukrainian territory and subsume into Russia.
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Nonsense. Keep saying it enough times though and it might come true.
 
DaveBj said:
I have a BA in Russian and an MA in Soviet and East European studies, and for 25 years I was a USSR analyst, first in the USAF and then for NSA.

It’s almost eerie seeing the pro-Soviet arguments of the late 1930s and early 1940s replaying themselves as a sort of Russia-against-Europe scenario.
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Then welcome to the Twilight Zone as you so aptly put it!! 😃

P.S. I don’t know what NSA and USAF stand for, I’m Canadian!!
 
MODERATOR WARNING

If members do not stop uncharitably discussing this topic and do not stop insulting each other, I am going to start suspending members.

Calm down! Before you make me upset (and you don’t want to do that.)
 
DaveBj said:
I have a BA in Russian and an MA in Soviet and East European studies, and for 25 years I was a USSR analyst, first in the USAF and then for NSA.

It’s almost eerie seeing the pro-Soviet arguments of the late 1930s and early 1940s replaying themselves as a sort of Russia-against-Europe scenario.
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Well, but I think it has been alive and well in certain circles ever since. There were always Soviet apologists in the west. Fortunately, at least in the U.S., few paid attention to them. Some simply do not like the west or its ways; capitalism, freedom. It’s untidy. People say things we don’t like hearing. People make money when we don’t think they should.

I’m sure you have seen many an old Soviet (or European communist) poster, with the well-muscled workers in their overalls wending their way happily to the smoke-belching factory for the sake of their daily borcht or pain de ce jour. Orderly. Tidy. Everybody knows his place.

Trouble is, the reality of it was an ever-spreading concatenation of layabouts and rascals.

Putin isn’t a “communist” in the sense of the term people think of it, since, being a multi-billionaire in a threadbare country, he manifestly doesn’t believe in sharing the wealth. But then, neither did the “communists” of the Soviet era. I almost feel like apologizing to one of your background for the following assertion, but from Lenin on, the real meaning of “communism” was “absolute rule by a privileged elite”, and not much else. That’s what we have in Russia as we speak.
 
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