Ukraine

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Actually, The invasion into the USA was a joint effort of Cubans, and Soviets. Their advance was halted much as the German advance into the USSR was during WWII. The film showed a small resistance movement that proved problematic for the Communist occupiers. (As resistance movements generally are.) Having trained with German, Dutch, and British soldiers just prior to the films release. I’d say the state of NATO was fairly accurate. Typically, Paratroopers are dropped well behind the enemies lines which would follow their appearance in small town Colorado in the film.

I suppose you didn’t like the Fighting Prince of Donegal either.

ATB
 
Giving reconsideration to the drastic events that have tragically affected the Ukraine people, it must be said again - the need to oust a criminal filling the Presidency having a great amount of thug power - is a risky endeavor. The people that managed to bring him down are heroes. This has cost priceless lives and injured many but the culprit did run! Plus many more of the underlings. Good job! That battle won, we will pray for no further violence.
The job remains to recover the stolen funds and hold elections to fill “vacancies”. Job 1.
 
Germany: Putin accepts Merkel contact group idea
news.yahoo.com/germany-putin-accepts-merkel-contact-group-idea-202813058.html

German foreign minister against excluding Russia from G8
news.yahoo.com/german-foreign-minister-against-excluding-russia-g8-195939270.html

Funny how Germany is the only grown up right now among NATO. And they have every reason to dislike Russia, historically speaking.
Germany, long since emasculated, and now chiefly run by Bankers. Is against excluding Russia from the G-8? :rolleyes:

ATB
 
There is no way that the US will go to war with Russia over Ukraine. Remember when the USSR invaded Afghanistan? We boycotted the Olympics in Moscow.
AND gave the Mujaheddin Stingers and taught them how to combat a larger, more modern mechanized invader. Which history has shown will never backfire.
I just feel bad for the Ukrainians…
This alone can we all agree on. No matter who wins, the innocent suffer.
 
I’m increasingly sympathetic towards Russia because I believe in the promises of Our Blessed Mother at Fatima. That’s not to say that Russia doesn’t have a long way to go, just that they are already proving themselves to be a counterweight to what we’re seeing in the West. Sadly, it appears that many in Ukraine would rather align themselves with the West.
 
I’m increasingly sympathetic towards Russia because I believe in the promises of Our Blessed Mother at Fatima. That’s not to say that Russia doesn’t have a long way to go, just that they are already proving themselves to be a counterweight to what we’re seeing in the West. Sadly, it appears that many in Ukraine would rather align themselves with the West.
But already five top Ukrainian military leaders have aligned themselves with the pro-Russian prime minister of Crimea and with the Crimean people. Further, RT is reporting: "Today the majority of the Ukrainian armed forces deployed in Crimea passed to the side of the authorities of the Crimean autonomous region. The transition was absolutely peaceful, without a single shot fired either by the military or by the forces of self-defense,”
Also, there have been huge pro-Russian demonstrations in some of the cities in the eastern part of Ukraine.
rt.com/
 
I’m increasingly sympathetic towards Russia because I believe in the promises of Our Blessed Mother at Fatima. That’s not to say that Russia doesn’t have a long way to go, just that they are already proving themselves to be a counterweight to what we’re seeing in the West. Sadly, it appears that many in Ukraine would rather align themselves with the West.
Our lady’s projection could well be a 100 years from now. The West is a big mess, but still, I would take it any day, over life in post Soviet Russia.
 
There’s a reason that most drivers in Russia have dashboard cameras: The police are corrupt, the courts are more corrupt, and the media only cares about what Putin says it does.

Now go make your own thread about it because such arguments have nothing to do with the situation in Ukraine, which is the one we are discussing. Move on already.
:amen:

THANK YOU! 👍👍
 
Actually, The invasion into the USA was a joint effort of Cubans, and Soviets. Their advance was halted much as the German advance into the USSR was during WWII. The film showed a small resistance movement that proved problematic for the Communist occupiers. (As resistance movements generally are.) Having trained with German, Dutch, and British soldiers just prior to the films release. I’d say the state of NATO was fairly accurate. Typically, Paratroopers are dropped well behind the enemies lines which would follow their appearance in small town Colorado in the film.

I suppose you didn’t like the Fighting Prince of Donegal either.

ATB
I liked Patrick Swayze in that film.
 
But already five top Ukrainian military leaders have aligned themselves with the pro-Russian prime minister of Crimea and with the Crimean people. Further, RT is reporting: "Today the majority of the Ukrainian armed forces deployed in Crimea passed to the side of the authorities of the Crimean autonomous region. The transition was absolutely peaceful, without a single shot fired either by the military or by the forces of self-defense,”
rt.com/
It would make sense, they were in a no-win situation with no one coming to their aid. Still, I would take what Putin’s rt.com says with a grain of salt. Let’s see if it is confirmed by other sources.

Or as the TIME’s Chief Foreign Affairs Correspondent calls them: Russian RT news: your source for masked troops among pretty girls, cute kids in Crimea

In related news: Black Sea Fleet captain has warned Sevastopol Military Unit No 656, if they refuse to lay Down weapons, storming will start this Morning -espreso.tv
 
It would make sense, they were in a no-win situation with no one coming to their aid. Still, I would take what Putin’s rt.com says with a grain of salt. Let’s see if it is confirmed by other sources.

Or as the TIME’s Chief Foreign Affairs Correspondent calls them: Russian RT news: your source for masked troops among pretty girls, cute kids in Crimea

In related news: Black Sea Fleet captain has warned Sevastopol Military Unit No 656, if they refuse to lay Down weapons, storming will start this Morning -espreso.tv
Let me check the MHz home grown propaganda news channels…
 
In related news: Black Sea Fleet captain has warned Sevastopol Military Unit No 656, if they refuse to lay Down weapons, storming will start this Morning -espreso.tv
Haven’t seen this on RT, France24 NHK World, or any of the homegrown international propaganda MHz channels yet. Holding my breath though!
 
You know, Putin is really making the situation in Ukraine tragic, worse than I initially thought possible of him. He claims to be defending lives in Ukraine, but the biggest risk of violence and killing comes at the hands of the deceitfully unmarked and masked Russian armed forces he has sent into Crimea in the thousands.

What other country would tolerate a foreign force surrounding and blocking access to its own country’s armed units on its own territory? In Crimea, Ukrainian military bases are surrounded by these men in masks without military identification who now are apparently trying to block off communication to these Ukrainian bases, steal their arms from them, keep them hostage, and fool them into surrendering - young Ukrainian guys soldiers, with parents worried about them, surrounded by a numerically overwhelming foreign force at the command of the KGB President in the Kremlin. No military insignia, just masks on the Russian forces. If Putin is worried about violent gangs, well the best armed is the gang (it’s not an army as it’s unmarked) he has sent in in the thousands into Crimea who are now playing with stealing weapons from Ukrainian forces legally there, and with Russian forces illegally there as per the 1994 Budapest Treaty on Ukraine’s inviolable borders and per the lease given to Russia’s Black Sea Fleet. Putin has broken international law.

And now comes word that Russians, civilians, from Russia proper are being asked by a group on the Russian social network VKontakte to come to Ukraine for “the struggle”. Russians are to be transported to Donetsk, Kharkiv, and Odesa for this struggle against Ukraine’s authorities. Rostov on the Don in Russia is the departure point for Donetsk, Ukraine. To the Ukrainian city of Kharkiv, Russians are told to meet for departure in Belgorod, Russia. Personally, I can see how invitations like this could get a response from young hooligans.

In Kharkiv this past Saturday one can recall from the news Ukrainian Maidan supporters being forced to crawl on all fours with bloodied faces beaten ostensibly by pro-Russian Ukrainians. It turns out that same day 2,000 Russians had been bused in from Belgorod. This probably goes some way I believe to explaining the violence. 2,000 bused in the same day this widespread violence against Ukrainians suddenly erupts.

The stories are from the reputable Ukrainska Pravda:
pravda.com.ua/news/2014/03/3/7017204/
pravda.com.ua/news/2014/03/2/7016959/

Today, Odesa, a Russian-speaking city had a large anti-Putin protest for Russia to stop its aggression. What is supposed to happen now that Russians are being encouraged to travel there, to Odesa? More civil disturbance like in Kharkiv with violence?

It’s just like Julia Ioffe wrote in the column gilliam linked to; these cities were quite peaceful until this whole thing rapidly changed after Sochi and Putin sent in the troops. Now come further protests and fighting, and it may turn out that the ethnic Russian and Russian-speaking population of Ukraine which has been demonstrating against Putin like in Odesa today, will have to face Russian protestors and possibly hooligans in an operations sending them to Ukraine. Don’t think Putin wouldn’t know about this.

Putin is going for broke in Ukraine. He deceitfully has sent in thousands of armed troops and armour into Crimea which today holds the biggest risk for loss of Ukrainian lives, and civilians are being transported into Ukraine to “struggle” against today’s Ukrainian authorities. Let it never be said that the Lubyanka can’t teach an autocrat new tricks.

All this when Putin cowardly has his OMON internal troops arrest 40 peaceful anti-war protestors in Moscow, while a perhaps staged pro-Putin march goes through Moscow with OMON protection.

General Wes Clark mentioned on CNN today about the estimated 40 billion dollar wealth of Putin. It’s quite possible Putin is the wealthiest man in Europe. Well he and his oligarchs hold lots of these assets in Western bank accounts. Kerry mentioned asset freezes. I suggest if Putin has monies in Western banks, take them, and let’s help rebuild the lives of ordinary Russians and Ukrainians in Ukraine. Ukraine as a country was robbed up to 70 billion by its ousted corrupt President Yanukovych. No condemnation of that by Putin, just accommodations and protection for Yanukovych in Russia.

Ukraine needs stability and calm now, and its neigbours’ peaceful help. Poland understands this. Parents have just buried their kids. And Putin is invading the country now.

And I have family in Eastern Ukraine as well. Thank you Vlad.
 
Andrew, could you explain a bit about Poland? I’m confused by their actions. They didn’t throw in with Latvia and Lithuania, and although they did make a media appeal for Russia to respect Ukraine’s borders, I read upthread that they have allowed Russian troops on their border w/ Ukraine.
I apologize for being dense with understanding this.
I’m just really confused by where Poland stands depending on the source.
 
Andrew, could you explain a bit about Poland? I’m confused by their actions. They didn’t throw in with Latvia and Lithuania, and although they did make a media appeal for Russia to respect Ukraine’s borders, I read upthread that they have allowed Russian troops on their border w/ Ukraine.
I apologize for being dense with understanding this.
I’m just really confused by where Poland stands depending on the source.
I’m not Andrew, but here is my take:

Poland has mobilized its troops on border with Ukraine. That could be in case of a large number of Ukrainian refugees crossing the border. (they say it is a planned war game, so you be the judge)

Poland is part of NATO with the US Air Force in country, so they really are in no fear of a Russian invasion.

IMHO, the chances of Poland invading Ukraine to kick Russia out is nil since that would bring NATO into the conflict.
 
Andrew, could you explain a bit about Poland? I’m confused by their actions. They didn’t throw in with Latvia and Lithuania, and although they did make a media appeal for Russia to respect Ukraine’s borders, I read upthread that they have allowed Russian troops on their border w/ Ukraine.
I apologize for being dense with understanding this.
I’m just really confused by where Poland stands depending on the source.
Oh, come on. You’re one of the most thoughtful posters on here!

I think in a post somewhere upstream Donald Tusk of Poland made a forceful statement on Ukraine. So has Poland’s Foreign Minister Sikorski. You may not hear as much because right now it’s all about the G-7 reactions to a certain extent but it’s all over Poland’s papers:
wyborcza.pl/0,0.html

The lead story in Gazeta Wyborcza is how Ukraine’s first President Kravchuk, now 80 years old, is willing to put his life on the line defending Ukraine.

I think the Poles realize after Katyn and communist domination and oppression, they never again want to be under the Russians or Kremlin. Some of the Polish reporters on the Maidan were incredibly brave in walking up to Berkut soldiers and asking them point blank why are you shooting at unarmed protestors, they are your brother Ukrainians (I have to find the clip).

I think Poland realizes its best defense in the future for Poland from Moscow is a healthy, democratic Ukraine, which they realize will need time. I think Poland along with Sweden have been among the biggest supporters of Ukraine, more than Germany.

Poland realizes the threat to it from Russia, as the Russians I believe, I think in contravention of a nuclear arms agreement with the US to which the US has not reacted, have begun deploying intermediate range nuclear missiles, some I believe to Kaliningrad province, Russia, just on Poland’s northern border.

The last war game the Russian armed forces undertook against its proclaimed arch-enemy NATO ended with the Russian nuclear forces having to nuke Warsaw, Poland. This cannot be comforting to the Poles.
 
BBC.com

In a statement released from the White House it said: "We, the leaders of Canada, France, Germany, Italy, Japan, the United Kingdom and the United States and the President of the European Council and President of the European Commission, join together today to condemn the Russian Federation’s clear violation of the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Ukraine.

:knight1::signofcross::knight1:
 
BBC.com

"
In a statement released from the White House it said: “We, the leaders of Canada, France, Germany, Italy, Japan, the United Kingdom and the United States and the President of the European Council and President of the European Commission, join together today to condemn the Russian Federation’s clear violation of the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Ukraine.”
That and a buck will buy you a Dr. Pepper at McDonalds
 
By the way, the Polish Foreign Minister Sikorski’s wife Anne Applebaum recently wrote a good article in the Washington Post about the smearing and stereotyping of Ukrainians done by people like Putin:
washingtonpost.com/opinions/anne-applebaum-ukrainian-smears-and-stereotypes/2014/02/20/450b8d62-9a72-11e3-b88d-f36c07223d88_story.html

and the pressure on Ukraine:
washingtonpost.com/opinions/anne-applebaum-the-pressure-is-on-ukraine/2014/02/27/1b080328-9fe6-11e3-9ba6-800d1192d08b_story.html

Applebaum knows the country pretty well, as does her husband the Polish Foreign Minister.
 
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