Ukraine

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There’s never been any evidence presented that the Russians in Ukraine have anything to fear from the new Ukrainian government. It’s all just a pretext to invade and grab land.
No-one knows if Putin is trying to grab land. At the moment, i’m assuming Putin wants to ensure his naval base, until after the Ukraine elections in May. Crimea may become independent at the end of it all, or stay with Ukraine who knows.
 
No-one knows if Putin is trying to grab land. At the moment, i’m assuming Putin wants to ensure his naval base, until after the Ukraine elections in May. Crimea may become independent at the end of it all, or stay with Ukraine who knows.
I will bet dollars to doughnuts that those Russian troops in Crimea are not going anywhere; and as of this morning despite Putin’s announcement that his war games are over, the latest reports are that the troops massed over the Ukrainian border are not leaving either. And Putin in his news conference left open the question of whether Russian troops will enter Ukraine to “save” the Russian-speakers in the south and east. It seems like he intends to partition Ukraine, which would be a land grab.

It’s possible he is just sabre-rattling – I hope that he is – but it benefits him to do so even if he just intends to take Crimea into Russia’s orbit. Then there will be people who say ‘oh let him have Crimea and he’ll leave Ukraine alone, hopefully.’ It will make his take-over of Crimea seem less blatantly criminal, if he leaves the main body of Ukraine alone afterwards.
 
No-one knows if Putin is trying to grab land. At the moment, i’m assuming Putin wants to ensure his naval base, until after the Ukraine elections in May. Crimea may become independent at the end of it all, or stay with Ukraine who knows.
I think that this is the most likely answer. With the overthrow of the government in Kiev, the safety of one of Russia’s most important strategic assets - its only warm-water port - came into question.

An actual madman coming to power and holding on to that power for an extended time is a relatively rare event. Putin seems to be more of the “enlightened self-interest” school.
 
I think that this is the most likely answer. With the overthrow of the government in Kiev, the safety of one of Russia’s most important strategic assets - its only warm-water port - came into question.

An actual madman coming to power and holding on to that power for an extended time is a relatively rare event. Putin seems to be more of the “enlightened self-interest” school.
I don’t think he’s a madman – far from it.
 
I will bet dollars to doughnuts that those Russian troops in Crimea are not going anywhere; and as of this morning despite Putin’s announcement that his war games are over, the latest reports are that the troops massed over the Ukrainian border are not leaving either. And Putin in his news conference left open the question of whether Russian troops will enter Ukraine to “save” the Russian-speakers in the south and east. It seems like he intends to partition Ukraine, which would be a land grab.
Well lets wait and see. Putin’s not zipped up the back, he’ll be playing games and has possibly no intention of going into Ukraine, but puts it out there as a veiled threat. Or he may enter the Ukraine - but I’ll believe that when I see it. I’d assume he’ll stay in Crimea until after the elections, to see what’s what.
 
Why does Putin give aid and comfort to Mr. Yunakovich? Wouldn’t he seem a better person if he would help the Ukrainian people whose patience had been justly broken?
Just turn around and say “there’s nothing to see here folks - let’s go home. Looks like the Ukrainian interim government has it handled.”

Well, Sec. Kerry is up to bat - sounding good. Gotta go.
 
I wish i got to hear Kerry 's Q and A, but it was cut off by Obama. One of the questions i got to hear before the switch was if Kerry heard about Putin denying having deployed troops. He looked incredulous and replied, “Is that what he really said?”
 
Well lets wait and see.
There’s not much else we can do but wait and watch things unfold. But I feel sorry for those Ukrainian soldiers holed up in their bases surrounded by Russian forces. I hope they have enough food and water to last a long siege.
 
I wish i got to hear Kerry 's Q and A, but it was cut off by Obama. One of the questions asked was if Kerry heard about Putin denying having deployed troops. He looked incredulous and basically called it a lie.
No one threatened Russian nationals and burned Church’s, the protestors were abused in the name of Freedom as usual and the same plot occurred as always, “tolerance kills fear”. 😃

Whats that woman’s name they falsely imprisoned? She took a line straight from Mandela.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yulia_Tymoshenko

No excuses for Putins strident clamor of petty evils. 😛
 
PLUS: President Putin says that what happened in Ukraine was “an unconstitutional overthrow and armed seizure of power” that went unchallenged.

"Why was this done? President Yanukovych, before Poland Germany and France, and before my representative, ombudsmen Lukin, signed an agreement with the opposition, by which, I want to note, Yanukovych basically gave up his power, he aggreed to all demands of opposition, early elections, to return to the constitution of 2004, … he didn’t give one illegal command to shoot unfortunate protestors.
Code:
They immediately seized his residence rather than giving him a chance to fulfil the agreement. .. He didn’t have any chance of being reelected. … Why did they need to take unconstitutional steps and bring the country into the chaos that now reigns there? … It was a stupid act. "
Putin (Through the guardian THANKS to GraceSofia)

I post this in responce to a previous post which states Russia wishes to reinstate the ousted president.
When did this happen, i.e., that he agreed to demands of the opposition, and who then gave the command to shoot unfortunate protestors? Who’s responsible for all the violence, was he not still President at that time? Could he not have demanded the Berkut to stop or to back off? I mean 100 dead and thousands more wounded.
 
Just in from the BBC:
17:15: A chief rabbi in Ukraine, Yaakov Dov Bleich, has accused Russia of staging anti-Semitic “provocations” in Crimea in order to justify its invasion of Ukraine, the Jewish Telegraphic News Agency reports. “Things may be done by Russians dressing up as Ukrainian nationalists,” he said, comparing it to the behaviour of the Nazis prior to the invasion of Austria in 1938.
bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26428296
 
Gary, I’ve got to tell you that I’ve been watching the propaganda machine all morning, among several international channels. the only way to stay “fair and balanced” in this issue is is to spend 12 min on each station and look for facts, not listen to rhetoric.

I’m my own talking head, I can spit rhetoric with the better of 'em. But the news station, RT, well, the phrasing to introduce any story starts with, “Unlike has been reported in the West…” and “Contrary to the liberal US media reporting for the last several years…” It wasn’t news, it was all analysis billing itself as news. I thought our media was bad. Sheesh.
 
When did this happen, i.e., that he agreed to demands of the opposition, and who then gave the command to shoot unfortunate protestors? Who’s responsible for all the violence, was he not still President at that time? Could he not have demanded the Berkut to stop or to back off? I mean 100 dead and thousands more wounded.
Interesting how Putin back pedaled on his support for Yanukovich. (Edit: first he’s the only rightful president ousted by a coup, then he has "no political future.) If this were 50 years ago, the Gulag would have new company arriving.
 
Gary, I’ve got to tell you that I’ve been watching the propaganda machine all morning, among several international channels. the only way to stay “fair and balanced” in this issue is is to spend 12 min on each station and look for facts, not listen to rhetoric.

I’m my own talking head, I can spit rhetoric with the better of 'em. But the news station, RT, well, the phrasing to introduce any story starts with, “Unlike has been reported in the West…” and “Contrary to the liberal US media reporting for the last several years…” It wasn’t news, it was all analysis billing itself as news. I thought our media was bad. Sheesh.
Excellent post and I agree. I’ve been flicking between Sky, CNN, BBC, Aljazeera and sadly RT as well, among others.

All media channels are biased to an extent because all human beings and communities of people exhibit certain biases based upon such things as private moral beliefs, worldview, culture, religion and so forth.

However most Western media stations at least make an attempt to be impartial and allow contrary opinions to air, because our environments are democratic and our academic scepticism means that we always have to consider counter-arguments when making our points. This goes as far back in the West to the early medieval universities. Scholasticism and St. Thomas Aquinas is a striking example of this approach. His Summa has numerous objections before he gets to his opinion, allowing the reader to get a full picture of the debate.

Autocratic regimes are incapable of such questioning. Russia did not have a free press under the Tsars, under the early Soviets, certainly not under Stalin, nor the later Soviets and certainly not under Putin either.

RT and Press TV (its Iranian counterpart) are entirely puppets of the state apparatus of their respective donor countries.
 
Putin basically brushed off the threats and advised the Western powers to “think about the consequences.”
“In this tightly connected world, we can of course harm each other, but it will be mutual harm, and they need to think about that,” he said.
 
Gary, I’ve got to tell you that I’ve been watching the propaganda machine all morning, among several international channels. the only way to stay “fair and balanced” in this issue is is to spend 12 min on each station and look for facts, not listen to rhetoric.

I’m my own talking head, I can spit rhetoric with the better of 'em. But the news station, RT, well, the phrasing to introduce any story starts with, “Unlike has been reported in the West…” and “Contrary to the liberal US media reporting for the last several years…” It wasn’t news, it was all analysis billing itself as news. I thought our media was bad. Sheesh.
I think they both have a very good legal argument as to who has authority or not. But you can’t suppress peaceful protest, its essential to democracy. So its more than who’s right legally. I imagine this scares Russia and many people their, as it does people here.

They have to collectively choose for themselves, but they should have an uninhibited opportunity to do so. In this sense even Putin is illegitimate. The fact he appears to be fair and with good intentions, doesn’t change all the suppression.
 
Yes, but those photos of Russian soldiers with tanks, etc., were taken during military operations in Russia, not the Ukraine. Same old, same old MSM spinning.
Troops stand guard in Balaklava on March 1. There are far too many photos out.

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
 
Troops stand guard in Balaklava on March 1. There are far too many photos out.

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/dam/assets/140301093744-ukraine-russia-02-horizontal-gallery.jpg
As noted, we can hear reports from several sources and they “proof text” by interviewing locals who support their agenda. I think both sides are guilty of this. Until those who say “those tanks are inside of Russia!” see a picture of a tank on a street in Ukraine with a sign or well known landmark, they just won’t believe it.
 
Difficult situation.

Putins claim is he reserves the right to protect “his people” and by military force. He believes its an illegal revolution. Legally he may have a point. I see no sense debating it as they both have good points. He stated this much live today. Aside from the media.

But its not rational in that it restricts and suppresses the idea of the people for the people and by a show of force and coercion… Its not “his people” who choose to depend on Russia because they identify and submit, in which Putin then identifies them as “his people”. Its rather the will of the collective people. Which may or may not choose Putins idea of his people.

This is going to be an issue for a long time, no different than here with the north and south. But Crimea presents a different issue in which I don’t believe Russia will concede.
 
Troops stand guard in Balaklava on March 1. There are far too many photos out.

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/dam/assets/140301093744-ukraine-russia-02-horizontal-gallery.jpg
There was no link to the story. Were the soldiers being deployed to Balaklava or are they actually in Balaklava? One photo that was in the MSM, placed by CNN, has already been proven false that showed Russian tanks and soldiers carrying out military operations in Russia - 1000’s of miles from Ukraine.

Russia has an existing agreement with Ukraine, up to 2042, to place 25,000 troops in this region and Russia pays $98 million per year for the privilege, as well as discount gas prices to Ukraine…
 
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