Ukraine

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Looks like we are in for another “cold war” folks…

What is pathetic about this is how Obama comes off in this…

He needs to be a leader, not a prevaricator.

I believe in a free Ukraine----free of both Putin and the EU. Doubt that will happen, though. If the eastern part wants to go back to Russia, let it go…and Crimea if they want, too. They have always been more Russian than Ukrainian anyway.

Let it be done by referendum, though…not what Putin is doing. I back the west on that, However, one cannot deny that Putin comes of the more “virile” leader here than Obama.
 
Looks like we are in for another “cold war” folks…

What is pathetic about this is how Obama comes off in this…

He needs to be a leader, not a prevaricator.

I believe in a free Ukraine----free of both Putin and the EU. Doubt that will happen, though. If the eastern part wants to go back to Russia, let it go…and Crimea if they want, too. They have always been more Russian than Ukrainian anyway.

Let it be done by referendum, though…not what Putin is doing. I back the west on that, However, one cannot deny that Putin comes of the more “virile” leader here than Obama.
I agree.
 
Looks like we are in for another “cold war” folks…

What is pathetic about this is how Obama comes off in this…

He needs to be a leader, not a prevaricator.

I believe in a free Ukraine----free of both Putin and the EU. Doubt that will happen, though. If the eastern part wants to go back to Russia, let it go…and Crimea if they want, too. They have always been more Russian than Ukrainian anyway.

Let it be done by referendum, though…not what Putin is doing. I back the west on that, However, one cannot deny that Putin comes of the more “virile” leader here than Obama.
Haha that goes without saying (no offense to Obama) but Putin’s more virile than all the rest of them put together, Cameron, Kenny, et al…mind you, possibly not Merkel!😃
 
There was no link to the story. Were the soldiers being deployed to Balaklava or are they actually in Balaklava? One photo that was in the MSM, placed by CNN, has already been proven false that showed Russian tanks and soldiers carrying out military operations in Russia - 1000’s of miles from Ukraine.

Russia has an existing agreement with Ukraine, up to 2042, to place 25,000 troops in this region and Russia pays $98 million per year for the privilege, as well as discount gas prices to Ukraine…
Oh, are you serious? I misunderstood your earlier post. But anyway, “Troops stand guard in Balaklava on March 1.” Well, I don’t think I’ll be able to convince you. For me, there are just way too many photos, videos, tweets, etc to make me think that the Ukrainians are imagining things.

edition.cnn.com/2014/03/01/world/europe/ukraine-politics/ number 20

This might be more convincing: youtube.com/watch?v=bONGpUWhyHQ&feature=youtu.be
 
The integrity of Ukraine was compromised from the beginning. Russian naval station at Sevastopol, lots of Russians in the eastern part of the country and in the Crimea. Dependency on Russian gas. Never was a stable setup.

On the other hand, it is my impression Russia is despised by the non-Russians in Ukraine, more so the more westerly one goes. Putin might be strong enough to swallow that population, and clearly Russia does not shrink from incorporating hostile alien populations (as in Chechnya) per se.

But one has to consider the risks and the rewards for Russia. Clearly the Crimea is worth a lot to Russia strategically. That being the case, a good part of Eastern Ukraine is as well, being the broad land access. But western Ukraine? It doesn’t have the value to Russia of Crimea or of Chechen oil reserves, and would be a troubled place.

My guesses are no better than anyone else’s, but it would be my guess that Putin does not attempt to annex all of Ukraine, and perhaps not to formally annex Crimea or Eastern Ukraine either. After all, if he and his partisans control those two, that’s what really counts, and somewhere down the road there can be a vote in those places favoring “return” to Russia if Russia even wants to bother. There’s no great love lost between the Russia-favoring Russians in Ukraine and the western Ukrainians. (“Those Poles” one of them derisively called them to me)

And until such time as Russia formally annexes the Crimea and eastern Ukraine (if it ever formally does) our options in bolstering Ukrainian Ukraine are limited.

What we can do, however, and should do, is give a lot of support to Poland, economically and militarily. Pagan EU or no pagan EU, Poland is the front line showcase of what it is to be aligned with the West.

With Turkey going Islamist and the Middle East being rapidly delivered into Iran’s hands, there aren’t many places left where the West can do that.

Inasmuch as the Black Sea is going to be a Russian lake, wherein our only formal “ally” is unreliable Turkey, some thought ought to be given to Romania and Bulgaria as well.

Unfortunately, supporting the “front line” states competes with Obama’s goal of converting the U.S. into a pervasive welfare state in which all resources are devoted to internal dependency. If elected, Hillary Clinton will be no different. So, if the U.S wants to rejoin the world, reduced though its prospects now are, 2016 is all important.
 
Ukrainians are not Putin’s people. And him handing out passports to anyone who wants one, doesn’t give him the right to invade a free and independent country.

From the BBC some of what is happening now: There is no question the noose is now tightening around those who refuse to submit to the new authority in Crimea and it is getting ever more hostile, writes the BBC’s Christian Fraser in Sevastapol. You can read more from Christian here:
Ukraine resistance proves problem for Russia
 
Russia has an existing agreement with Ukraine, up to 2042, to place 25,000 troops in this region and Russia pays $98 million per year for the privilege, as well as discount gas prices to Ukraine…
Didn’t Russia rescind all funding? Didn’t they just announce that they’re no longer selling gas at half price?

Yes, they did.

It’s not fair to say that only one side is cherry picking from existing agreements. Russia didn’t have a caveat that that they would honor this only so long as they they recognized the leaders of the Ukrainian government.

Is this not Russian sanction on Ukraine, the same way Russia takes umbrage at the interference of the EU?
 
Haha that goes without saying (no offense to Obama) but Putin’s more virile than all the rest of them put together, Cameron, Kenny, et al…mind you, possibly not Merkel!😃
My take is that it’s easy to be virile when you don’t play by anyone’s rules but your own. (Of course Obama has done this when he passed the Obamacare legislation by parliamentary legerdemain.) Let’s not forget Al Capone was pretty virile himself.
 
Russia test-fires ICBM - state news reports

Reuters picks up a report by state-run RIA quoting a Russian defense ministry spokesman as saying that Russia successfully** test-fired an Intercontinental Ballistic Missile (ICBM).**

The Strategic Rocket Forces launched an RS-12M Topol missile from the southerly Astrakhan region near the Caspian Sea and the dummy warhead hit its target at a proving ground in Kazakhstan, the state-run news agency RIA cited Defence Ministry spokesman Igor Yegorov as saying.
The RIA report in Russian is here.
 
Didn’t Russia rescind all funding? Didn’t they just announce that they’re no longer selling gas at half price?

Yes, they did.

It’s not fair to say that only one side is cherry picking from existing agreements. Russia didn’t have a caveat that that they would honor this only so long as they they recognized the leaders of the Ukrainian government.

Is this not Russian sanction on Ukraine, the same way Russia takes umbrage at the interference of the EU?
Without links stating these facts, I couldn’t say. I know Putin mentioned the discount gas prices to Ukraine, at the press conference today and with no mention of sanctions.
 
**Don’t call it chess: **Kasparov, the opposition politician, and world chess champion posted on Twitter: Less than Putin’s skill, it’s that he is not playing by the rules the free world feels obliged to follow. So again, not like chess at all.
 
Without links stating these facts, I couldn’t say. I know Putin mentioned the discount gas prices to Ukraine, at the press conference today and with no mention of sanctions.
Russian state-controlled natural-gas giant OAO Gazprom OGZPY +7.43% Gazprom OAO ADS said Tuesday it would raise natural-gas prices for Ukraine—a move that ratchets up financial pressure on Kiev and raises the economic stakes in the standoff between Moscow and Western Europe.

Russia has cut off gas supplies to Ukraine twice before in recent years, in 2006 and 2009, in both cases citing pricing disputes. Gazprom Chief Executive Alexei Miller on Tuesday told state television the company would cancel Ukraine’s special price discounts starting in April. He cited Ukraine’s failure to live up to its contractual obligations…

Russia’s Interfax news agency quoted Russian Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev saying Gazprom’s actions were “justified” as Ukraine hasn’t yet made full payment for February gas deliveries.

In a televised talk with reporters, Russian President Vladimir Putin said that Ukraine’s debt to Gazprom stood at $1.5 billion -$1.6 billion, and should Ukraine fail to make full February gas payments, that debt will go as high as $2 billion.

“In these conditions Gazprom is saying if you aren’t paying anyway, then let’s fix the price at normal level, not the discounted one,” Mr. Putin said. He said that this measure has nothing to do with the current situation in Ukraine.

online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303630904579418711038114256?mg=reno64-wsj&url=http%3A%2F%2Fonline.wsj.com%2Farticle%2FSB10001424052702303630904579418711038114256.html
 
“It’s hard to speculate on motivations, but it may be that one of the main reasons for the (events) in Crimea was, legitimately or not, they thought they might lose the base in Sevastopol,” said Dmitry Gorenburg, who researches Russian military reform at the CNA Corporation, an analysis group.
The Black Sea Fleet remains the smallest of Russia’s four fleets, and one whose aging ships limit its capabilities. Of the fleet’s 25 ships, 19 are corvettes and patrol craft, according to an analysis by Christian Le Mière, a researcher with the International Institute for Strategic Studies. Le Mière also counts two destroyers, a pair of frigates, a cruiser and a diesel-electric submarine.
Gorenburg said most ships date to the 1970s, with one of the frigates going back to the ‘60s. Thomas Fedyszyn, a researcher at the Naval War College in Rhode Island, offered a similar assessment.
Russia plans to gradually replace the ships in the coming years, analysts say, with three new frigates, new submarines and an amphibious ship. Gorenburg said the new ships will replace older, outdated vessels and should not increase the size of the fleet.
Even those changes would face restrictions under Russia’s basing agreement in Sevastopol, which requires Ukraine approve all ships based in the port or entering it.
Putin may hope to re-negotiate those terms?

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/...eXny5C3gOCFO7z4-L2kuvbGou8_EmaN_nn926pxdRFZq-
 
My take is that it’s easy to be virile when you don’t play by anyone’s rules but your own. (Of course Obama has done this when he passed the Obamacare legislation by parliamentary legerdemain.) Let’s not forget Al Capone was pretty virile himself.
Or maybe you need to be virile to play by your own rules in the first place? Most western leaders, IMO, are puppets with major decisions made behind the scenes. It would be heartening to think Putin actually gets free reign to run Russia, but there are too many billionaires out there that make me feel otherwise.
 
Or maybe you need to be virile to play by your own rules in the first place? Most western leaders, IMO, are puppets with major decisions made behind the scenes. It would be heartening to think Putin actually gets free reign to run Russia, but there are too many billionaires out there that make me feel otherwise.
There are too many billionaires languishing in Russian jails to make me think he doesn’t have a free hand to run Russia.
 
My take is that it’s easy to be virile when you don’t play by anyone’s rules but your own. (Of course Obama has done this when he passed the Obamacare legislation by parliamentary legerdemain.) Let’s not forget Al Capone was pretty virile himself.
The two are one heck of a comparison. Obama has this idea of equal rights which strays into a hedonistic and socialistic sphere. Christianity has a difficult time with this as he suppresses religious freedom. On the other hand Putin while a supreme ruler and self imposed. he has a romance of a Christian Russia and Orthodoxy with no separation of Church and state. I think to some degree I can see where this ideal is embraced in Russia. I think it was apparent at the Olympics. However this suppresses everything but itself. He’s a good leader and makes quick decisions on the fly from what I see. He’s very calculated and very historic as also the Olympics exhibited. This Soviet Union pre Putin era seriously disturbs this guy and his dream is becoming a reality.

Obama talks, then thinks imho just as we see here. And if surveillance was all its cracked up to be [Snowden NSA] how the heck is he so behind all the time and scrambling. I think hes an alright guy, I don’t agree with much of his thinking, I definitely don’t see him as a good leader. Myself I would be attempting to get as close to Putin as possible. He may be crazy, but he’s crazy like a fox if you ask me.
 
Or maybe you need to be virile to play by your own rules in the first place? Most western leaders, IMO, are puppets with major decisions made behind the scenes. It would be heartening to think Putin actually gets free reign to run Russia, but there are too many billionaires out there that make me feel otherwise.
Also, it’s not that the Western leaders are puppets but that they have to answer to voters, other branches of their democratically elected governments, the media, etc. This constrains their actions.
 
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