Ukraine

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gilliam said:
I think Putin looks at this as a struggle of the greater Russia (Byzantium if you will) vs the West (Rome if you will.) At least that is the impression I get.
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In a broad sense, I think you’re right.

In an earlier post, I referred to the Russians as “Rodina (motherland) jihadis” in this conflict, and Russia has long been given to that. And inasmuch as the subdivisions of Orthodoxy are very territorial, the “Third Rome” (Moscow) concept among Russian Orthodox is not just some arcane historic reference.

If you look at old Renaissance era maps, the dividing line between the Latin West and the Orthodox East ran, in part, right through Ukraine. It really hasn’t changed much since then.
 
pepipop said:
Why assume it’s a ‘success’ for Russia, or a feather in Putin’s cap. It’s something that Putin possibly did to show his annoyance at western intervention in the overthrowing of a, neighbouring and closely-linked country’s, government. .
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What Russia did here was well planned and probably took month’s to plan and prepare. It isn’t something that is a reaction to what occurred recently.

Just obtaining and outfitting the thousands of Russian forces in uniforms, hats, packs, etc. without insignia would take months.
 
josie_L said:
I always believed that to be holy one had to actually be holy, i.e., according to God’s definition of holiness.
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God has used powerful leaders in history to execute His Will regardless of the failings they might have.
 
gilliam said:
What Russia did here was well planned and probably took month’s to plan and prepare. It isn’t something that is a reaction to what occurred recently.

Just obtaining and outfitting the thousands of Russian forces in uniforms without insignia would take months.
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Exactly, I think he was expecting the protestations because he knew the level of support there was in the Ukraine to get closer to the EU.
 
I am referring to our fellow Christians in the Orthodox Church. A Church which I as a Roman Catholic see as slightly estranged brothers.
 
catholicguy2 said:
I believe that God is using Holy Putin in a manner similar to Constantine to attack the Baal worshiping NATO/EU clique. Constantine converted on his death bed and did bad things so Holy Putin’s mistakes are overshadowed by the blows he is delivering to the homo-fascist agenda.
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:ehh:
catholicguy2 said:
He might be the Great Monarch of Catholic prophecy.
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Doesn’t the Great Monarch have to start off as the king of France?
 
catholicguy2 said:
God has used powerful leaders in history to execute His Will regardless of the failings they might have.
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But that doesn’t make them holy?? Maybe you need to do some more research on Putin before you canonize him has a saint.

P.S. I assure you that the UGCC and UOC and RC do not view Putin has a holy man.
 
pepipop said:
Why assume it’s a ‘success’ for Russia, or a feather in Putin’s cap. It’s something that Putin possibly did to show his annoyance at western intervention in the overthrowing of a, neighbouring and closely-linked country’s, government.

The Crimean’s could genuinely have come to him and asked for help, they are 60% Russian. They, of their own accord, may want to break from Ukraine as they don’t want to join the EU (pretty sensible) and/or they intend to get better conditions and be even more autonomous if they go with Russia. It’s never one-sided there’s always something in it for both sides.

The problem with western media is they are assuming that this is Putin’s main aim - to build up Russia again - it may be the furthest thing from his mind, more mouths to feed, more debt to take on…

There are too many variables at play, and Crimea are well able to decide what THEY want out of all of this.
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Well I don’t really see Crimea as building up his Kingdom as being worth it. That may well be plausible, and proposed by many, but after watching the Olympics and how Islamic issues are handled and the history already in that area I would see it as an issue. Also the financial investment interest takes a hit for other countries, such as with fuel. If Obama had been thinking correctly with Keystone, he could have picked up the slack. That will be approved next week now. 🙂
 
josie_L said:
But that doesn’t make them holy?? Maybe you need to do some more research on Putin before you canonize him as a saint.
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The “West” - The US and the EU are spreading atheism, sodomy, materialism, perversion, Islam around the world. They are an instrument of the Great Deceiver.

Joining the EU would do more damage to Ukraine than Hitler and Stalin combined.
 
catholicguy2 said:
The “West” - The US and the EU are spreading atheism, sodomy, materialism, perversion, Islam around the world. They are an instrument of the Great Deceiver.

Joining the EU would do more damage to Ukraine than Hitler and Stalin combined.
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You called Putin a holy man and he is not, that is my issue (do more research and you find nothing more than a wolf in sheep’s clothing). Do not put your hopes on Putin, he is not going to “save” the world from the forces of evil, when he supports it in many other ways.
 
josie_L said:
You called Putin a holy man and he is not, that is my issue (do more research and you find nothing more than a wolf in sheep’s clothing). Do not put your hopes on Putin, he is not going to “save” the world from the forces of evil, when he supports it in many other ways.
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Why do you want Ukraine to join something as totally evil as the EU?
 
gilliam said:
What Russia did here was well planned and probably took month’s to plan and prepare. It isn’t something that is a reaction to what occurred recently.

Just obtaining and outfitting the thousands of Russian forces in uniforms, hats, packs, etc. without insignia would take months.
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There are 16,000 genuine Russian soldiers in Crimea (they can have up to 25,000) - as per their existing agreement, but I have not heard a number of the ‘pretend soldiers’ who are most likely Russian-Ukrainians. Let’s assume it was all planned, due to the rioting in Nov/Dec and the Ukrainians wanting to join the EU.

It still could have been Crimea coming to Putin in December and saying they wanted out of Ukraine as they didn’t want to join the EU. Crimea do not have to play ball with Putin, as there are plenty of laws EU/International/Geneva convention, etc., that would keep them safe if they wanted no part of Russia. I don’t think Putin’s ‘stupid’ enough to jump into Crimea if he was not invited, they could have screamed ‘blue murder’ to the international community. Also the fact their government so quickly took a vote for a referendum to stay in Russia, would indicate they’re all for it and want out of Ukraine or most likely the EU,
 
josie_L said:
You called Putin a holy man and he is not, that is my issue (do more research and you find nothing more than a wolf in sheep’s clothing). Do not put your hopes on Putin, he is not going to “save” the world from the forces of evil, when he supports it in many other ways.
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Locking up those women who were desecrating a Church, banning the spread of gay propaganda, preventing gay Americans from adopting and perverting young children. That all sounds quite God fearing to me. Holy Russia has to defend itself. No Christina country ever believed in being defenceless and the protestations of all the gay right supporting Western countries ring hollow
 
catholicguy2 said:
The “West” - The US and the EU are spreading atheism, sodomy, materialism, perversion, Islam around the world. They are an instrument of the Great Deceiver.

Joining the EU would do more damage to Ukraine than Hitler and Stalin combined.
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Throwing around that freedom of speech? Where abouts are you from (country is enough)? Just wondering how you come by your statements…
 
grotto said:
Throwing around that freedom of speech? Where abouts are you from (country is enough)? Just wondering how you come by your statements…
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The US.

“Freedom of speech” is a Protestant heretical idea. The founders of the US founded it on Freemasonic/Protestant heresies so the US has no legitimacy. A government that murders 55 million babies is not legitimate.
 
They get a one of two choice vote in ten days, In or out. If your out are you still “his people” that’s the point he made several times which seems rather exclusive? How does it help further dividing a country but by making it Putin exclusive. Violation of Ukraine and international law. And of course we know all about those elections in Russia. 😉 And they are running monitors out of the area.:confused:
 
catholicguy2 said:
Why do you want Ukraine to join something as totally evil as the EU?
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I’ve explained that already in dozens of posts I’ve contributed on this thread, moreover, this was not about the Ukraine, i.e., I was taking umbrage with you calling Putin holy, which quite frankly is false. Here’s a little taste of who the “holy” Putin is:
On a personal note, Amnesty International did great work helping shine the spotlight on Ukrainian political prisoners imprisoned by the Soviet Union in the Gulag, several whom I came to know. One of them was the leader of the underground Ukrainian Catholic Church. He had powerful psychotropic drugs forced down his throat and injected into him, because the Kremlin thought him sick for opposing the Soviet Union’s persecution of Ukrainian Catholics and persecution of Ukrainians’ culture, religion, and language in the Soviet Union.
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The man responsible for this man’s suffering and for the order to put enemies of the communist regime into psychiatric institutions (tens of thousands of them) was the deceased former long-time head of the Soviet KGB and General Secretary of the Soviet Union Yuri Andropov, who is to this day glorified by the President of Russia Vladimir Putin! Putin has proudly placed a plaque in the Russian Secret Police’s Lubyanka headquarters to honor Andropov, erected statues to him in today’s Russia, and has created “Andropov” scholarships for the future leaders of Russia’s secret police the FSB! It would be very good of some of those who post on CAF vigorously defending Putin to research Putin’s personal hero Yuri Andropov.
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I truly believe that anybody who wishes to praise or defend Putin as a paragon of morality, must be ready to then defend Putin’s hero Yuri Andropov.
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