Ukraine

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If that’s what the republics’ want. I.E. They have to approach Russia, tell Russia we’d like to come back; do you want us; can we hold a referendum to ask our people then? Russia either says yes, or no.

It’s not a one-sided affair, it takes two to tango.
The whole republic or just one part of the republic? Say 17% of the republic, like in the Ukraine’s Crimea? And is it OK that Russian troops are every where you go in that small part of the republic (to keep order of course)?

Think that’s the fair and right thing to do?

Just wondering if this is setting some kind of precedent; and if it is a good one to set?
 
If you are 100% without a doubt sure that you know what God’s agenda is, it’s proabably not God’s agenda but your own.
Is the American media/culture/economics machine which is spreading the legalization of homosexuality around the world a good thing or a bad thing?
 
The evil EU that includes three of the most traditionally staunchest of Catholic nations, Poland, Malta and Ireland? :rolleyes: The evil EU that reveres as its founders men who were Catholics?

Read:

I will note that it is Poland that is taking the strongest line in the entire EU against Russia.

If we wish to view this on religious lines, which we shouldn’t do, then consider this:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Poland

Poland’s role in the EU is set to grow and grow.

Read this:

ewtn.com/library/CHISTORY/zcathorigeu.HTM
secularism.org.uk/news/2014/02/trust-in-religion-falls-in-poland
thetablet.co.uk/news/447/0/poland-sees-marked-decline-in-public-trust-of-church
 
A good thing because homosexuality shouldn’t be illegal.
In the Summa Theologica, which he was working on when he died in 1274, Saint Thomas Aquinas held that “the unnatural vice” is the greatest of the sins of lust.[56] In his Summa contra Gentiles, traditionally dated to 1264, he argued against what he called “the error of those who say that there is no more sin in the emission of the semen than in the ejection of other superfluous products from the body” by saying that, after murder, which destroys an existing human being, disordinate emission of semen to the preclusion of generating a human being seems to come second.[57]

Anna Clark says that sodomy increasingly began to be identified as the most heinous of sins by authorities of the Catholic Church. In Italy, Dominican monks would encourage the pious to “hunt out” sodomites and once done to hand them to the Inquisition to be dealt with accordingly. She writes, “These clerical discourses provided a language for secular authorities to condemn sodomy… By persecuting sodomites as well as heretics, the Church strengthened its authority and credibility as a moral arbiter”.[58]

By the time of the Fourth Lateran Council in 1215 the Church accepted that “secular authorities, as well as clergy, should be allowed to impose penalties on ‘sodomites’ for having had sexual relations”, and by the end of the 13th century, “homophobic discourse became insitutionalised ,… Sodomites were now demons as well as sinners.”.[59] Civil authorities were in fact already trying the crime of sodomy in their own courts. They applied punishments very different from those that the Church applied, such as excommunication and deposition from the clerical state. They followed Roman civil law, which prescribed death by burning for those found guilty of sodomy.[60] In 1232, Pope Gregory IX established the Roman Inquisition which investigated claims of sodomitical acts when, in 1451, Pope Nicholas V enabled it to prosecute men who practice sodomy. Handed over to the civil authorities, those condemned were frequently, in accordance with civil law, burned.[60]
 
The whole republic or just one part of the republic? Say 17% of the republic, like in the Ukraine’s Crimea? And is it OK that Russian troops are every where you go in that small part of the republic (to keep order of course)?

Think that’s the fair and right thing to do?

Just wondering if this is setting some kind of precedent; and if it is a good one to set?
I really do not see this in the same way you do. The Russians there are stationed all year around there’s 16,000-25,000 of them, that are legally allowed in the Crimea.

The ‘pretend’ soldiers, IMO are Crimeans with Russian passports. Crimea had to approach Russia before this could happen - otherwise they could scream blue murder from the rooftops and all their ’ international friends and the Ukrainian government’ would come crowding in, like a shot. Crimea has decided to take a referendum to go back to Russia - they most likely do not want to join the EU. Do you really think, in this day and age, they’re being harassed into it by the big bad Ruskies?

No way, they want out of the Ukraine they’ve never been happy there. As the government in the Ukraine is illegal they now have an ample opportunity to play along with the game of Putin and get out, which is what they will want.
 
Be very wary of such “secular messianism” and deification of mere human beings. The Psalms tell us in the Bible not to put our “trust in princes” and that “human beings are flesh and not spirit”, that “dust and ashes cannot boast”.

The Kingdom of God is not ever to be identified with this world, as Jesus warned us against. The Church is a pilgrim on this earth looking towards the heavenly Jerusalem.

From the Catechism:
That is true
I do not worship Putin.
I look at what he has achieved and I see the divine at work
Gay rights blocked, the Holy Church resurgent and being defended.
That cannot be the anti Christ
When I look at President Obama on the other hand.
 
I’m really sorry to see you go, (name removed by moderator), as I always enjoyed your posts as well as the fact you are a fellow Irishperson. 👍

God bless, to you and your family - however I hope you will consider changing your mind.
 
That is true
I do not worship Putin.
I look at what he has achieved and I see the divine at work
Gay rights blocked, the Holy Church resurgent and being defended.
That cannot be the anti Christ
When I look at President Obama on the other hand.
Yes, I see the Holy Spirit guiding Putin but Soetoro is under the influence of the spirit of Antichrist.
 
I really do not see this in the same way you do. The Russians there are stationed all year around there’s 16,000-25,000 of them, that are legally allowed in the Crimea.
They were in their bases, not surrounding the Ukrainian bases and police department and blocking the roads. The Russian forces also had to get Ukrainian permission to move in country. Now the Russians are the ones telling the Ukrainians in the Crimea (their own country) what they can and cannot do.

We call that, in diplomatic terms, an invasion.
 
So this is now a matter of power makes right?.
It has been that way for a while now, hasn’t it? When country A does it, it is absolutely right. But when country B does it, it is absolutely wrong. Where is the logic in international relations?
 
Of course. It’s dependent on the decision of the majority of Ukrainians in the given region.
Those in the present coalition in Ukraine and the USA want to block the vote in Crimea. Why shouldn’t people of a given region have the right to self determination and independence. Wasn’t it a glorious occasion when the US declared its independence from Great Britain? Isn’t this event celebrated with fireworks and parties every year on July 4?
 
rt.com/news/ukraine-west-questions-not-answered-994/

I’m back here briefly…wanted to link to this page which somebody sent to me from RT-----

YES, I know it is RT—but they still ask questions that the West should easily answer in order to further legitimize it’s position (which I tend to mostly agree with—up to a point, anyway).

The questions are:
  1. Why did the opposition oust Yanukovich after he conceded to their demands?
  2. Why is the coup-appointed govt replacing oligarchs linked to Yanukovich with… oligarchs?
  3. Why did the post-coup parliament strip Russian language of its regional status?
  4. Why did Kiev attack the Constitutional Court?
  5. Why would the West support the coup in Ukraine?
The answers to this from RT’s point of view are in the article.

I would recommend you read the article and then get back here and comment on what you like.

Again, I’m not pro-RT----but they ask questions that need to be answered.

Thanks. I’ll be backl in a while after attending to personal business.
 
Those in the present coalition in Ukraine and the USA want to block the vote in Crimea. Why shouldn’t people of a given region have the right to self determination and independence. Wasn’t it a glorious occasion when the US declared its independence from Great Britain? Isn’t this event celebrated with fireworks and parties every year on July 4?
That IS unusual, I have to say. :rolleyes:

I guess they are going by the agreement of 1994.

At least, that is the POV that I saw the pundits on CNN taking. 🙂
 
Those in the present coalition in Ukraine and the USA want to block the vote in Crimea. Why shouldn’t people of a given region have the right to self determination and independence. Wasn’t it a glorious occasion when the US declared its independence from Great Britain? Isn’t this event celebrated with fireworks and parties every year on July 4?
We were a colony, not a part of Great Britain and we did not have representation in the Parliament. A better example would be when the Confederate States tried to succeed from the Union. Had the Czar positioned his Cossacks in Virginia to block the Union forces, that Civil War may have been an even better example.
 
Again, I’m not pro-RT----but they ask questions that need to be answered.
No, they don’t need to be answered because as soon as Russia invaded the game changed. What was an internal affair of a sovereign nation became a case where one nation invaded another sovereign nation in violation of International Law.

Putin wanted the Crimea
He saw an opportunity
He took it

Different game, different questions need to be answered.
 
Imagining being a resident of the Crimea; earning my rather comfortable income as a Russian technician working for the Naval Base. It would not be in my best interest to take a side of those throwing out the President of the Ukraine. It would certainly set one apart from others in the neighborhood! Everyone has heard of “go along to get along”, unless it rocks one’s conscience to take some action (and a plan well thought out). So, when all the troops come rolling in and the posture of the day is “oh yes Boss, I want to be under Russian management’. (Also, I am Russian and speak the language). I want a referendum to secede from Ukraine”.

Back in Kiev, the residents are wondering what the H happened to their country. They had borders defined on maps back in 1991. T hey had some nukes they gave back to Russia at that time so that the U.S., U.K. and E.U. countries would protect them if need be. Basically, they had a military of their own but no match for Russia. Now they have lost a whole region of their country without a “how do you do?” Quite a price to accept.
I guess a strict immigration policy would be tempting. If they can get out of this mugging without being too crushed, they are probably saying, “Who’s next?”

Also: “Would you please get that rusty, old, scrap boat out of our way?”
 
Vladimir Putin has vowed to protect Christians worldwide, who in NATO or the EU has done that ? Putin has prevented a Salafist takeover of Syria, but whether or not he turns out to be a bad guy, what is important is that the countless prayers for the conversion of Russia have been bearing fruit. Christianity is growing in Russia, while it is in serious decline in most of the NATO-EU countries.
 
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